Morgan O'Hanlon 00:00

You're listening to Better Outside, a Texas Parks and Wildlife production. This season was brought to you by Whole Earth Provision Company. I'm your host, Morgan O'Hanlon.

Speaker 1 00:10

And I'm David Yoskowitz, Executive Director, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.

Morgan O'Hanlon 00:15

Hey, David, why don't you take a hike?

David Yoskowitz 00:17

Excuse me.

Morgan O'Hanlon 00:18

I mean literally, because right after the break, we're heading east, way east, to the Texas-Louisiana border, where trail builders are testing out a potential cross Texas trail. So stay tuned, because you won't want to miss it. Whole Earth Provision Company has been helping Texans roam wild and free since 1970. Whether you're road tripping through the Hill Country, catching a sunrise of Enchanted Rock, or planning a summer park hop, they've got what you need to do it right. Think sun protective shirts, trail tested sandals, packable hats and water bottles that actually keep your drinks cold. Traveling light? They've got carry-ons, duffels and gear bags from the names you trust, and if you forgot your shades or backup charger, well, they've got those too. Visit one of their six Texas stores or shop 24/7 at wholeearthprovision.com Hey, David.

David Yoskowitz 01:18

Hey.

Morgan O'Hanlon 01:19

What's your favorite hike you've ever done in Texas?

David Yoskowitz 01:22

Oh, I'm not allowed to say.

Morgan O'Hanlon 01:25

Well, what do you love about hiking in Texas?

Speaker 1 01:29

Well, I love getting into the outdoors, just like everybody else.

Morgan O'Hanlon 01:33

As TPWD's Executive Director, you probably know a lot more about trail building than pretty much anybody. Can you give us some idea of the challenges that go into building a trail?

Speaker 1 01:46

Well, in Texas, across Texas would be very difficult to put that together, but very worthwhile. Thinking of dealing with all the municipalities, counties, private landowners. In a state park, it's much easier, and we have an overwhelming demand for trails in our state parks.

Morgan O'Hanlon 02:08

Well, Charlie Gandy, a former Texas State Representative, has set about building just such a cross Texas trail. It's an ambitious project, and I'm about to take you out on the test run where we'll get eyes on the ground and see what changes might make it better. Are you ready to go?

David Yoskowitz 02:25

Okay, let's go.

Morgan O'Hanlon 02:57

It's about a five hour drive from Austin to the Louisiana border, and the clock just struck 1 a.m. That means it's time for me to pour my coffee and hit the road. I'm meeting a group of hikers, bikers and horseback riders, where U.S. Highway 190 crosses the Sabine River, right outside of a little town called Bon Weir, Texas. That's where they're going to begin ground proofing, which is another word for test run, of the XTX. I arrive a little after six, and the sun has just peaked out above the eastern river bank on the Louisiana side of the border. It's pretty cold out and steam is rising off the wide, muddy river. On the Texas side, there's a group of people packing up camp from the night before. Chase Fountain, one of the TPWD staff photographers, drives me over to the wide sandy bank to meet them. At seven sharp, this group of beta testers is going to get eyes on the ground and report back on the good, bad and the ugly of the current route. The XTX, which is short for cross Texas trail, is a project of bike Texas, an Austin-based bicycle advocacy group that Charlie founded back in 1990.

Charlie Gandy 04:04

All right, remember mile 12 we've got lunch. So, if we get separated, I'll see you there.

Morgan O'Hanlon 04:10

That lunch break near Kirbyville is where my car is waiting to take me back home. I've only signed up for a 12 mile hike today, but most of the group will spend the next week trying out the first 100 miles the XTX all the way to New Waverly, just a little south of Huntsville. And a few people are headed clear across the state, all the way to El Paso. One guy, Rhea Wallace, is biking there, and another Moondog Roop — yeah, that's his name — plans to spend a few months getting there via skateboard.

Charlie Gandy 04:40

Alright, we're ready to go. Hey, let's go. My name is Charlie Gandy, and I'm on the XTX on the far east end, about five miles or so from Quicksand Creek, which is the eastern start and terminus of the XTX.

Morgan O'Hanlon 04:57

Charlie is the mastermind behind the XTX and our trip leader for the ground proofing event.

Charlie Gandy 05:03

This ground proofing is testing whether this is the right route or not. Do we want to commit to this? And once we do, then we want to start talking to people about longer term relationships.

Morgan O'Hanlon 05:12

How's it going so far? Incredibly good.

Charlie Gandy 05:15

We have such a talented and enthusiastic ground proofer group here, about a dozen people on horses, bikes and hiking testing this route, and I'm seeing a lot of smiles.

Morgan O'Hanlon 05:29

Because more than 90% of Texas land is privately owned, it's practically impossible to string together a route with enough public stops to camp or even stop and refuel. Charlie spent the time leading up to the ground proofing, looking for a solution to that problem. He's been talking to landowners and securing permission to camp or access water on their land.

Charlie Gandy 05:48

You know, I've had some great conversations with people in Kirbyville, Spurger, Woodville and Livingston, talking to preachers about using their grove and their yards, basically, because there's plenty of space out there for us to camp.

Morgan O'Hanlon 06:07

Unlike other thru hikes like the Appalachian or Pacific Crest trails, the XTX isn't exactly a wilderness trail. This morning, we're spending a good chunk of time walking along US Highway 190 to the tune of 18 wheelers barreling down the asphalt. That's because the XTX relies heavily on roads — everything from major highways down to unpaved gravel and dirt paths — to string together a permissible route.

Charlie Gandy 06:32

It was really sweet to see eyes light up when we talked about this trail that's built to a horse standard going across the state and coming through your town. And I didn't get any rejections. Everybody said, 'Yes, heck yeah.' The guy that we're gonna go to tonight, Mike Adams, in Kirbyville, owns the mortuary there. We're camping there tonight.

Morgan O'Hanlon 06:58

Is this your first time sleeping in a graveyard?

Charlie Gandy 07:00

No.

Morgan O'Hanlon 07:01

Charlie says most people will start the route on the East Texas border and travel westward like we're doing today.

UNKNOWN 07:07

Morgan's asking us about doing the trail from east to west and what the reasoning behind that was?

Charlie Gandy 07:13

My reasoning behind that is that I'm a hiker and a biker, and I like tailwinds, and looking at the prevailing winds, I and buddies came to the judgment that it's probably better to go east to west than west to east. Uh, metaphorically, it's starting at the lowest place in Texas and going to the highest place over the toughest terrain I could find. Oh, and most beautiful. There may be something to that. Yeah, go west, young man, I'd want to start in this terrain, because the further west you get, the harder it gets in terms of logistics, water, food, heat, various other risks. And so to start and spend your first week, which is usually always the toughest week from a physical training perspective, I'd much rather be doing it under these conditions than under harsh conditions. Car back.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:11

I break off on my own for a bit to chat with some of the other hikers. How are your feet feeling so far?

UNKNOWN 08:26

Not good.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:27

What's wrong?

UNKNOWN 08:28

I think I wore the wrong socks, and my feet are rubbing inside my shoes.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:34

Blisters?

UNKNOWN 08:35

Not yet, but it would if I kept on going like this.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:39

When I catch back up with Charlie. We're about halfway to lunch.

Charlie Gandy 08:43

You having fung?

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:44

I'm having a lot of fun. I'm having a blast.

Charlie Gandy 08:48

Isn't this a good crowd, I mean, a talented group.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:51

It's a really fantastic group. How'd you find all these people?

Charlie Gandy 08:55

I happened to come up with a good idea, and they found me. They've come out of the woorwork. We were smart enough to set up a website early on to capture that, and so really, we've just been harvesting the energy and enthusiasm and talent of all of these people. At the same time, talking to landowners about volunteering their property. They see this as a legacy trail, and they want to be a part of it.

Morgan O'Hanlon 09:17

Many of the ground proofers heard about the XTX after Texas Monthly wrote an article about the trail project. It piqued the interest of some of our state's hiking veterans who've been desperate for a through hiking route on par with what they've experienced on the Appalachian Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail or the Continental Divide. Even our state's longest trails, the 120-mile North East Texas Trail and the 96-mile Lone Star hiking trail, are only a fraction of the length of our country's most famous thru hikes. Charlie is a Texas expat who now lives on the Pacific Coast. He's thrilled to be bringing an experience like this back to his home state.

Charlie Gandy 09:54

It feels magical. To be able to sleep on the Sabine River last night. In Texas, to have an Appalachian Trail like experience in Texas, is magic.

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:05

To me, it also feels kind of unreal being out here. I'm usually a skeptic when it comes to trail projects, they usually take decades or they're dreamt up and never funded. But being out here, it feels like, 'Wow! This is really happening.' When people talk about trails in Texas, they always talk about, well, Texas is 97% privately owned, and thru trails are never going to happen. But what it sounds like you're saying is that that's not necessarily a deterrent to you, and in fact, it might even be kind of a boon. Is that, right?

Charlie Gandy 10:44

My attempted humor on that is, yeah, instead of dealing with bureaucracies, I get to deal with a bunch of dictators, these ranch owners that get to set the terms for a trail going across their property. And so yeah, I'm gonna get to make about 100 deals with about 100 dictators that wanna play along, but under their terms, right and in most cases that's going to be acceptable to us.

Morgan O'Hanlon 11:04

We finally turn off the highway and onto a small, quiet dirt road. Charlie, what are we looking at right now?

Charlie Gandy 11:18

Great question. Virtually no chance of rain today, a light blue sky. We just got onto gravel on a — I call it a one and a half lane — quiet back road about, oh, what? Seven miles from the border. I noticed that there aren't any 18 wheeler noise in the background. In fact, there hadn't been a car past us since we got on this road. So it's peaceful. It was a chilly night, but the sun's coming up and it's warming up. I've already taken off one layer. About to take off another. We've got this tunnel of trees, don't we? And we're on a slight uphill. I noticed that there's not any fencing on either side, which tells me these are probably timber, meaning they're tree farms, and it's thick. This is a good example of what I learned yesterday, and that is the early settlers coming from back east got into the Big Thicket and couldn't get through it, so they ended up going around it north and south, because it was just too thick to cut through, as you can see right here. So yeah, I don't hear any banjos yet, but we'll probably hear them by the end of the day.

Morgan O'Hanlon 12:31

As we're walking down the road, we come up on a railroad track. The corridor cuts a clear, open path through the dense pines that's at least 50 feet wide.

Charlie Gandy 12:41

Let's pause here. I'm going to be talking to these guys about using this route, because this goes to Quicksand Creek, just down river from where we were, right around the corner. And so we'd start there, do a little bushwhacking to this, and then use this to come through here instead of that road.

Morgan O'Hanlon 12:58

And they don't mind you hiking in the rail corridor?

Charlie Gandy 13:00

We're gonna find out.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:02

Sometimes trail builders will contact companies that have already secured right of way through private property, like railroads or utility companies, so they can ask if they could essentially tag on to their existing easements.

Charlie Gandy 13:15

My point is this: this an example of the ground proofing that we're doing.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:19

Where'd you learn all this stuff?

Charlie Gandy 13:21

I made a living talking to people about trying on new things.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:26

Long before this latest venture as a trail builder, Charlie started out his career in politics. In fact, at age 23 he became one of the youngest people ever elected to the Texas House. Later, he went on to work in funding advocacy and nonprofits. He started a business selling steel lawn chairs, and for a little while he owned and operated a mountain lodge in Colorado. Basically, he's got the gift of gab and has this booming, magnetic laugh that draws you in.

Charlie Gandy 13:55

I'm a native Texan. I used to live in a place like this, and I kind of know how they think. They're all authorized to say no at first, but then they smile, kind of like you did, and think, Well, what's he selling? And then we start having the conversation.

Morgan O'Hanlon 14:11

The group catches up and Charlie fills them in.

Charlie Gandy 14:14

Hey, I wanted to share this with you guys. This rail line goes to Quicksand Creek, just around the corner from where we camped last night. And so I'll be talking to them about letting us hike on their right of way. Usually the right of way on these is about 50 feet, and so you can hike on the rail or on the sides, whatever's the route of least resistance. Usually they run a couple of trains a day through here, so it's not a busy route. This is one of the opportunities we may have to migrate the trail off of those roads we just walked to here, and then we could keep going, or we could take this route that we're going to on, this quiet road we just we're on now, you know, that's the project. That's improving the route.

Morgan O'Hanlon 14:55

A man in a truck pulls up next to us on the dirt road.

UNKNOWN 14:59

Y'all lost?

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:00

This guy lives around here, and he isn't the first local who's looked confused about what we're doing way out here.

Charlie Gandy 15:06

We may be, where are you going?

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:08

The man shrugs his shoulders when we tell him we don't need a ride. Our loss. He wishes us a good day before driving off.

Charlie Gandy 15:15

This is just eccentric enough to attract a little attention. Everybody's being our friend out here. They're really friendly. I love being here right now. This weather is exactly what I want to share with my friends in New York City and elsewhere that are in snow right now and wondering if spring will come. Well, spring has already showed up here, right?

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:37

Charlie, you know what we call that a fair weather fan?

Charlie Gandy 15:40

Oh heck, yeah, I'm a fan of room temperature.

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:43

He may be a fair weather fan of Texas weather, but Charlie is no stranger to tough experiences.

Charlie Gandy 15:49

My training for this project comes from hiking all or part of all the major trails in the US. But the one that is most like this and the one that I got the most education out of was the Arizona Trail. The Arizona Trail goes from the Mexican border up through the mountains, through the Grand Canyon and up to Utah, 730 miles or so. It's probably 40 or 50% privately owned ranches and the rest public land. That really was probably the biggest influence on me in terms of seeing a route across Texas doing the same thing. And I know some really beautiful parts of the state from my own experience with public access, but as you know, that's a small percentage of the overall land. What I also know, being 66 years old now and being invited to private ranches around the state is that there are some hidden gems out there. There are some amazing sinkholes, canyons with petroglyphs, with waterfalls, hot aprings, cold springs. Amazing places that, for good reason maybe, people have kept them private. But in some cases, they want to share them with the public, and so they're open to this idea of running a trail across their property, some of it. And it's a spectrum from 'I love this idea, I want to do everything I can to support this, because I know the value of it,' to the other end, where there's people who don't want to participate in this at all. That's okay, it's not their cup of tea. And then there's people in the middle that they can see this as a way to make a little bit more money when the hunting season is over and those cabins are sitting vacant on those ranches out there that they charge those hunters 100 bucks a night to stay in. Now they can charge hikers the same amount after the hunting season, and so all of a sudden their eyes light up because they see a new form of revenue when they're trying to build fences and sink wells and other things to stay in business.

Morgan O'Hanlon 17:52

By the time we get to our lunch spot, my feet are aching and I'm dreading the five hour drive back home, but the sausage wraps the locals made for us smell delicious and lift my spirits. As we walk up to the pavilion, I see Chase, the photographer who's been following us on our journey today.

Chase Fountain 18:10

How y'all feeling? You're tired?

Morgan O'Hanlon 18:13

Can you believe that? I'm finally tired. It's been a long day, but I'm feeling pretty lucky to have been among the first people to set eyes on the XTX. And when we come back from the break, I'll get an update from Charlie about the ground proofers, who went all the way to West Texas. From Big Bend to Barcelona, Whole Earth Provision Company, outfits free spirits and side questers alike in superb quality goods. Find them in store or online at wholeearthprovision.com

Speaker 2 18:46

There's nothing like a day on the lake. Let's make sure invasive species like zebra mussels and Giant Salvinia don't ruin it. Clean, drain and dry your boat before traveling from lake to lake, and protect the lakes you love. Visit tpwd.texas.gov/stopinvasives.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:04

So tell me, where are you, Charlie? Where are you calling me from?

Charlie Gandy 19:14

Barton springs.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:17

So how much time have you been spending in Texas over the last couple months since I last saw you?

Charlie Gandy 19:22

All but I think nine days. I had pretty much the full month of March around the state, and spent most of the time in West Texas supporting Moondog, the guy on the skateboard, and then also doing some work in Santa Elena Canyon.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:40

Yeah, so tell me, what did you see on the ground out there on the XTX in West Texas?

Charlie Gandy 19:44

At the first of the year when I was out there, I noticed that the river was just running a trickle out of Santa Elena Canyon. It looked muddy, and there looked like places where you'd need to wade through water and possibly swim, but with no river it's then just pools of water that you're walking in and out of. And so I could imagine hiking up that. So that got on the list of ground proofing projects in March. To cut to the chase, we've been looking at the entire Rio Grande river channel from Rio Grande Village on the east side of Big Bend National Park, 80 miles around to the mouth of Santa Elena Canyon, and then another 18 miles through Santa Elena Canyon to Lajitas. And we're opening up some of the hidden gems of Big Bend that are now available for hiking, that have never been available for hiking in our lifetimes. Santa Elena Canyon is a geological cathedral. I've paddled it three times in my life, and had big adventures in there and been awed by the beauty of this canyon. It was truly a adventure. All of that's true now, except you've got the ability to hike through that and swim through those puddles and tromp through that mud. It is a unique, novel hike now, and I'm really excited about being able to share that with people.

Morgan O'Hanlon 21:20

So how long is that hike through the canyon itself? And give me some more visual descriptors of what that looks like.

Charlie Gandy 21:30

Santa Elena Canyon is eight miles long. And so let's start at the mouth of the canyon on the east side, and walk upstream. You do the first short six-tenths of a mile trail that's there, and all of a sudden, you're beyond where the tourists go, and you're wading through mud and then pools up to your waist, and the mud can be up to your knees. And you need to wear tightened up trail shoes, and you need to have a backpack that is sealed up, either with a dry bag inside with all your valuables and or a waterproof backpack. And then you get to the rock slide, and it's the hardest part of the hike you're going to get to swim about, oh, 100 yards, and there's rocks on all sides, so you've got things to hold on to if you need to, but that backpack, if you've done it right, is a flotation device. And so you're floating through the most scenic part of the river, and I would argue, the most scenic part of the state. And a mile later, you're out of the canyon. And from there, you've got another 9.8 miles of walking to Lajitas on the XTX. It's at least a day trip, and for many it might be a two day trip, and it's one of the best places to camp, not only in Texas, but I would argue, in the United States.

Morgan O'Hanlon 22:54

So West Texas seems like it's probably the most difficult in terms of the ground proofing and trail building, trail routing process outside of the Big Bend area. How is that process going?

Charlie Gandy 23:14

You know, I am harvesting the goodwill of rural Texans, some of them own huge ranches. All of them have Texas pride, and so they are getting in touch with us. They're talking to their neighbors, then their neighbors are getting in touch with us. And I can give you names of these ranchers out here in West Texas that have heard that we're building this legacy trail for horses, hikers and mountain bikers, and they want it to come across their property, and they want to do it for one of two big reasons. One is pride. They want to be a part of the Appalachian Trail of Texas, or they are a working ranch. Some of them, as businesses, can see revenue from this. And so we're looking for friends that own those properties, that want to participate in the XTX.

Morgan O'Hanlon 24:05

Did any of the ground proofers I met out there in March — have any of them completed the full trail?

Charlie Gandy 24:11

No, we have two people that did extended versions. One, Rhea Wallace, he ran out of time, and so he got to Marfa, which is roughly 1200 miles, and is planning to come back in the fall and complete that. The other guy, Moondog Roop, everything up to Rock Springs. He was able to do unsupported. Beyond Rocksprings, he needed me to put out water every 15 miles or so, or take advantage of local water sources to get to where he's at now, which is Big Bend National Park. He's planning to come back in the fall as well and complete the route. You know, these guys are heroes. They've taken on a important task, and that is being our stunt guys for this route. We're out in the scout mode here testing what we've looked at and seeing if we've made the right choices, so that by next fall, we have a route that's electronically available, that will have the benefit of a year and a half's worth of work by me and the team. It's not like it's going to be a perfect trail to start with. And so we'll point out where the obstacles are, and where the dangers are and where the great places are. There'll be places along this 1500 miles that will be better than others, and we'll give reports on that. That's what this ground proofing is about.

Morgan O'Hanlon 25:36

And so I imagine this ground proofing process, then will continue for the next few months. You'll continue to see other parts of the trail. And then is that fall time frame when you're planning to launch this first version of the trail?

Charlie Gandy 25:50

Yes. By fall we intend to have a route that we're ready to show people is, under certain conditions, finished and ready to go. And in other conditions, it's you ought to skip over this part. It's not ready. We don't have complete water out yet. So there will be significant portions of the XTX that are ready for people to go out and participate in. But then there'll be other places that will be less defined. That's where all these start, and that's where we are now.

Morgan O'Hanlon 26:17

How much of the final version of the XTX do you think is going to be on private land?

Charlie Gandy 26:22

Well, first of all, we start with basically zero. What's it going to look like next spring? Probably of the 1500 miles that we currently have, just the conversion to private land is probably going to be about 80 to 100 miles of trail on private ranches a year from now. And you know what? I'll give you an example. Penny Ferguson out in Fort Davis. She's got a 20,000 acre ranch just north of Big Bend Ranch State Park. Her father saw the press that we had last fall about the big idea of this route, and he saw that the black line that we had imagined going up from the state park to Marfa went across their place. And so she gave us a call early on. She's trying to hold on to her 20,000 acres, and so she's trying to make it productive in a time when raising cattle is hard to do, if, in many cases, impossible. And so she's looking for new revenue sources, and she's got an incredible lodge that sleeps 11 on her place, and she's happy to rent that out to people like us with horses or on bikes or walking through. And so she is also the one that's well connected in West Texas, and put me on to one of her friends over in Brewster County. And so we're working the network. And so far, it's looking really, really good.

Morgan O'Hanlon 27:56

Do you have a favorite single moment or experience that you've had in the XTX so far?

Charlie Gandy 28:03

The realization that this hidden gem of Santa Elena Canyon could be reimagined as a hiking trail versus a paddling route. That is the big idea that is bearing fruit right now. For anybody who's ever been to Big Bend, they know that's one of the hidden gems in the National Park. And in the past, the only way you could see it was paddling it. Now you can hike through it. You can camp in it. You can spend a day in it, or two days or three. It is the best find we've had in the XTX so far that we're ready to share with the public. That and just the overall validation that the idea of a horse hike and bike trail across the state of Texas would stir the imagination of so many people. I wasn't the first guy to come up with this idea. I think I am the first guy who has moved on it and started to organize all of the goodwill behind this project in Texas and beyond. And so, for that, I realized at 66 years old that I can be useful. And so this feels pretty good, and I'm enjoying playing the organizer role.

Morgan O'Hanlon 29:20

Well, I cannot wait to see the final version of this, and I can't wait to get out there and try hiking the Santa Elena Canyon. I think that's just going to be so,so special. For 25 years, Texans have been contributing to conservation when they buy specialty license plates for their vehicles, trailers or motorcycles, you can choose from 11 eye catching plates featuring colorful illustrations of outdoors imagery, including the bighorn sheep, the horned lizard, the Blue Bonnet and so much more. And for $30 a year, you too can ride with the wild TPD. Gets back $22 of that annual purchase for wildlife, land, water and habitat conservation. Visit conservation plate.org to see them all, make your selection and help drive conservation forward.

Speaker 1 30:18

So what other trails can hikers head to in the meantime?

Morgan O'Hanlon 30:21

As I mentioned earlier, the Lonestar Trail is a great option for backpacking. There's also the North East Texas Trail east of Dallas. And actually, Dallas itself has a ton of trails. It's not the only Texas city with some great ones. Personally, I love riding my bike on the Mission Trail in San Antonio. And of course, as you know, our Texas State Parks have abundant hiking opportunities.

David Yoskowitz 30:44

Abundant, yes.

Morgan O'Hanlon 30:46

But because the XTX plans to string together already existing roadways and trails, the route's probably going to be completed long before some of the other trail projects you may have already heard of. For example, the Great Springs Trail in Central Texas, which aims to connect Austin and San Antonio. That's at least a decade away from completion because of the long and arduous process of securing funding and trail construction, not to mention securing right of way.

David Yoskowitz 31:12

Well, even with the completion dates far out into the future, these projects are still important. They're aspirational, and they're going to be important for our kids and our grandkids. And you think about the Pacific Crest Trail or the Appalachian Trail, I mean, these are iconic opportunities, and a trail like this could do the same.

Morgan O'Hanlon 31:32

Obviously to outdoorsy people like you and me, trail building is important because it's just cool. We want more places to hike, ride our bikes and explore the great outdoors. But why do you think trail building should matter to people who aren't so easily convinced?

David Yoskowitz 31:47

Well, people are demanding trails. They want to be outdoors. We want to give them the opportunity to do that.

Morgan O'Hanlon 31:54

And what resources are out there for people like Charlie who want to help build their state's growing network of trails?

David Yoskowitz 31:59

Well, for one, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department administers the National Recreation Trails Fund in Texas under the approval of the Federal Highway Administration. And these grant funds can be spent on things like construction of new recreational trails, improvement of existing trails, development of trail heads or trail side facilities, and to acquire trail corridors. Additionally, there's a host of nonprofit organizations, including Rails to Trails Conservancy, the International Mountain Biking Association and the American Hiking Society that offer resources and support for trail development.

Morgan O'Hanlon 32:37

What else would you say to somebody who's really excited about these trail projects?

David Yoskowitz 32:41

What I would say is there's many of them out there right now. There'll be more opportunity coming, but go find a trail near you, take your friends, your family, and enjoy the outdoors for an afternoon or for a couple of weeks.

Morgan O'Hanlon 33:09

Better Outside, a Texas Parks and Wildlife production, is brought to you by Whole Earth Provision Company. This episode was written and recorded by me, Morgan O'Hanlon. Story edited by Wes Ferguson and Aislyn Gaddis for Free Range Productions. Sound design and audio engineering by Austin Sisler at Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Our theme song was written and recorded by Walker Lukens and Grant Eppley. Artwork for the show is by Aaron Zachary. You can learn more about the XTX at xtexas.org. For more information about recreational trail grants, you can head to the grant programs page on TPWD's main website that's T-P-W-D dot Texas dot G-O-V. I'm currently working on a companion piece to this story about some other regional trail projects in Texas. Keep an eye out for that later this year in Texas Parks and Wildlife Magazine. If you want to read that story or others from our magazine, you can subscribe to the magazine for only $2 a month at T-P-W magazine.com all of this information, along with transcripts, photos, links and so much more is available in our show notes. You can find them at betteroutside.com. And, of course, you can find Better Outside wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for this episode. See y'all next time, and thanks for joining us outside.