Morgan O'Hanlon 00:01

You're listening to Better Outside, a Texas Parks and Wildlife production. This season was brought to you by Whole Earth Provision Company. I'm your host, Morgan O'Hanlon.

David Yoskowitz 00:11

And I'm David Yoskowitz, executive director of Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.

Morgan O'Hanlon 00:16

And after a short break, we're going to hit the road and get a little hog wild with some bounty hunters in North Central Texas. So hang tight, because we're about to take you outside. Whole Earth Provision Company has been helping Texans roam wild and free since 1970. Whether you're road tripping through the Hill Country, catching a sunrise at Enchanted Rock or planning a summer park hop, they've got what you need to do it right. Think sun protective shirts, trail tested sandals, packable hats and water bottles that actually keep your drinks cold, traveling light. They've got carry ons, duffels and gear bags from the names you trust. And if you forgot your shades or backup charger, well, they've got those too. Visit one of their six Texas stores or shop 24/7 at wholeearthprovision.com Today we're taking you to Bosque County in North Central Texas, about an hour west of Waco.

David Yoskowitz 01:16

Like most counties in the Lone Star State, Bosque County has been fighting a losing battle against feral hogs. They reproduce quickly, and it has been a struggle to limit population growth at all, much less wipe out this invasivespecies.

Morgan O'Hanlon 01:31

But the county officials have come up with an unusual solution to the problem: turning their citizens into bounty hunters.

David Yoskowitz 01:38

And how's that been working out for them?

Morgan O'Hanlon 01:41

I'm not sure yet, but I think I'm ready to go outside and find out. So David, have you ever gotten up close and personal with a feral hog?

David Yoskowitz 02:18

I have.

Morgan O'Hanlon 02:20

So give me the five senses breakdown. What do they look, sound and smell like?

David Yoskowitz 02:26

They smell awful. They look mean. They are mean, and they're around all the time. Except that they're very smart, so once they know you're around, it gets much more difficult to get them.

Morgan O'Hanlon 02:43

And what's the difference between wild hogs and javelina?

David Yoskowitz 02:48

Well, first off, they're not wild hogs. They're feral hogs, and there's a critical difference. The wild animals like javelina are native to Texas. Feral animals such as these hogs have been brought into the wild by people. Javelina are actually closer to deer in similarity than they are to hogs. Hogs are feral. They're invasive. They were brought over by Europeans.

Morgan O'Hanlon 03:17

And why is that a bad thing?

David Yoskowitz 03:18

Well, not all non native species are considered invasive. Some non-native species are harmless. They may be even beneficial, such as crops and garden plants. Think of European honey bees. But these hogs are considered invasive, and it's mainly because of the damages that they do to property and that they're so prolific that they reproduce so easily and so quickly that it's hard to get a handle on them.

Morgan O'Hanlon 03:48

Yikes. And I think I might have heard you say that they're harmful to wildlife too. I imagine that's why we care about this problem as the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. Can you give me any examples of ways that they're hurting our environment.

David Yoskowitz 04:01

Sure, they're very detrimental to habitat in the first place. They tear up the ground. They out compete other wildlife for some of the same food resources — resources that might be put there by humans. They're so aggressive that they will run off other species, such as white-tailed deer, wild turkey, and compete for those food resources.

Morgan O'Hanlon 04:26

Well, then I guess it's a good thing people are trying to stop them. Before today, had you ever heard of a hog bounty program?

David Yoskowitz 04:32

I had not. So, I'm aware of county bounty programs for nuisance species, but I'm interested to hear more about this.

Morgan O'Hanlon 04:41

Then that's exactly what we're going to do today. I'm going to take you on my journey to Bosque County, where I learned how their bounty program works, and even followed some local bounty collectors out on a hunt. So let's hit the road. It's a cool day in October when I make my first trip to Bosque County. In Texas, you don't need a hunting license to harvest feral hogs on private land. But, in order to participate in Bosque County's hog bounty program, you do have to take a class. I wanted in on the action, so I signed up and then jumped in the car to make the three-hour drive from TPWD headquarters to the county seat in Meridian. The class took place in the county's Agrilife Extension Office, where the Texas A& M AgriLife Extension Service provides community education about health, agriculture and the environment.

Chelsea Dorward 05:27

So we'll get started. It won't take 40 minutes.

Morgan O'Hanlon 05:30

This is local Extension Agent Chelsea Dorward, who's teaching today's class.

Chelsea Dorward 05:35

So this is the one-time class you have to come to. Everybody sees the same slide set, but we go over some of the rules and just different techniques that can be used. So, know thy enemy. They have lots of common names,

Morgan O'Hanlon 05:49

Names like wild boar, wild pig, razorback and Piney Woods rooter.

Chelsea Dorward 05:54

So there's different stories on whether they were released from ranches or turned out on purpose.

Morgan O'Hanlon 06:01

What we do know is that domesticated swine have been in Texas for hundreds of years. Captain Cook, the English explorer who navigated the Pacific, famously released pigs on many of the islands he visited. European explorers in Texas and across the United States also released pigs as a source of food. And of course, early farmers raised pigs that — inadvertently or on purpose — were left to roam the wild. Later, in the 1930s, Texas ranchers and sportsmen released Eurasian wild boars for hunting.

Chelsea Dorward 06:32

Now we have a cross between this domesticated swine and the Eurasian wild boar.

Morgan O'Hanlon 06:36

The hybrid pig we have now can subsist on pretty much anything.

Chelsea Dorward 06:40

They are omnivorous, and one of our A&M retired specialists says they will eat anything with a calorie. They will eat plants, mushrooms, vertebrates, mammals, birds, carrion, crops — anything.

Morgan O'Hanlon 06:52

They're spreading like wildfire.

Chelsea Dorward 06:55

Females can breed from between six and 12 months of age. They come into heat every 18 to 24 days until they're bred. They gestate for 115 days. And in the wild, they tend to have four to six piglets per litter. In less than two years 42 pigs can be traced back to one sow. Those numbers can multiply very quickly if they're having six in a litter.

Morgan O'Hanlon 07:15

And they just don't seem to die.

Chelsea Dorward 07:17

There's few natural predators. Bobcats are one but sows are aggressive to defend their piglets, because that's just a mama's instinct, but they'll tend to group together and fight off the predator, if they can.

Morgan O'Hanlon 07:31

Pigs are actually so aggressive that they can be dangerous to people, pets and livestock. Although attacks are rare, they can cause severe injury and even death. In fact, a recent study co authored by USDA wildlife biologists found that hogs now kill more people than bears, wolves and sharks combined. But they aren't just dangerous. They're destructive too.

Chelsea Dorward 07:53

The impacts are great. They increase runoff and sedimentation. They increase erosion. They contaminate the water with bacterial coliform. There's watershed impairment, soil compaction, negative changes to the plant communities. They kill and wound trees. They kill and eat wildlife. They destroy crucial habitat and compete with native species. They compete with livestock. There's documented predation on lands, kids, calves. There's rooting and trampling of crops, soil erosion and compaction.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:25

I think you're getting the picture. Pigs aren't always cute, like Winnie the Pooh's Piglet, or Wilbur from Charlotte's Web. They're actually kind of the opposite. I mean, nasty.

Chelsea Dorward 08:35

They spread diseases. Some of those are transferable to other animals or humans. Pigs are gross, but if you're going to be messing with them once you've killed them, wear gloves, double sets preferred, safety glasses, sunglasses. Wash the tools and work surfaces with bleach when you're done. Wash your hands and cook the meat, if you're going to eat it, to 160 degrees to kill anything that might be in it.

Morgan O'Hanlon 08:59

After she explained why hogs are a problem, Chelsea also covered how locals can provide a solution: participating in the bounty program. She covered approved means and methods, including guns, traps and poisons that can be used.

Chelsea Dorward 09:13

You are now certified, so you can go and on Tuesday, you can bring your tails in. She's got a embossed card. You have to bring that with you, or somebody has to bring it, whoever brings the tails.

UNKNOWN 09:26

You have to have 10 tails to a bag or less. Frozen, preferably if you can.

Morgan O'Hanlon 09:34

The following Tuesday, I came back to Bosque County to check out a tail collection day. On the third Tuesday of every month, hunters and trappers are paid a $10 bounty per tail. I pulled up to the courthouse in the middle of town and found three of the county's four commissioners huddled around a table. Next to them, a few flies circled a large burlap sack on the ground. What's your turnout been so far?

Ronnie Liardon 09:58

Two people today. 58? Pretty slow.

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:04

Can I see? I point to the burlap sack.

Ronnie Liardon 10:08

What?

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:09

Can I see?

UNKNOWN 10:10

Sure.

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:11

Are they nasty? Do people freeze them? Okay. I peek into the sack. Even though they're in bags, I can still make out a thick, musty smell. Gross.

Ronnie Liardon 10:23

A hundred dollars worth right there, though.

UNKNOWN 10:25

We can make you earrings.

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:27

One of the commissioners, Ronnie Liardon, is especially passionate about killing pigs. He's a farmer, and, as such, he's been personally impacted by the damage they cause. His job as a commissioner also puts him in close contact with constituents who can help him tackle the problem.

Ronnie Liardon 10:44

Hi this is Ronnie Liardon, what are you doing? Are you bringing pigtails today? Okay, all right. Sounds good. We'll see you.

Morgan O'Hanlon 10:51

For Ronnie, the bounty program is one part of a larger mission to expand the culture of hog hunting in his corner of Texas.

Ronnie Liardon 10:59

The bounty thing is a little bit of an incentive. There's a lot of guys that want to go out and do it, and they'll come in here and bring $300 worth of tails, and that buys their gas, corn and ammo for the next month, and they're eliminating a problem that's bigger than all of that. It just makes them feel better.

Morgan O'Hanlon 11:15

This kind of culture building is important, especially in Bosque County, which hasn't always had a problem with pigs.

Ronnie Liardon 11:21

Well they showed up here about how long ago? 20 years ag? It may be close to 30.

Morgan O'Hanlon 11:29

That spike in the local hog population coincides with a phenomenon researchers refer to as the pig bomb. This was a massive increase in the range and number of feral pigs in the United States that began in the 1980s. People suddenly started seeing pigs where they'd never seen them before. Today, feral hogs have been reported in 35 states with an estimated population of over 6 million.

Ronnie Liardon 11:54

I think it was kind of a combination things. A domestic hog in about three generations is back to wildness. It doesn't take them long. Evolution will go backwards on them in a hurry to get them back to a wild state.

Morgan O'Hanlon 12:08

For years, the county employed a trapper to capture animals that were disrupting local agriculture. But the hog problem continued to get worse.

Ronnie Liardon 12:16

We were getting a lot of complaints about hogs.

Morgan O'Hanlon 12:19

Then a few years back, Ronnie thought of a new solution. What if they started a bounty program? When the trapper left his position a few years back, the county reappropriated the salary to bounty pool, which now sits at around $38,000 per year.

Ronnie Liardon 12:35

A trapper can't be all over the county and run this many tribes, so it seemed like a logical move to get the landowners a little more involved. This was a way to help fund their trapping and feeding. If one guy ran 'em all, he might have to drive 500 files a day to see 'em all. Trapper would kill two or 300 pigs a year, maybe three or 400 pigs a year. We kind of helped fund the locals a little bit, and they killed 3000 a year with the same amount of input.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:03

The program was modeled after others in Texas.

Ronnie Liardon 13:06

There's another county somewhere, Hill County, they were first before us. They had pretty good success with it, so it just seemed worth a try.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:15

Bosque County's bounty pool is now the largest out of any hog bounty program in the state.

Ronnie Liardon 13:20

I don't know. I guess we're just ahead of the curve up here.

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:25

But is the bounty program working? It's kind of hard to say.

Ronnie Liardon 13:29

I don't know. It's a hard moving target, because they can reproduce so fast. Lots of little informal surveys asking more or less or the same and what, nearly 100% or well or less, they're still planting, but there's less,

Morgan O'Hanlon 13:44

Although he's not sure if complete eradication is in sight, Ronnie says that's the goal. They're just too destructive. And he's not the only one who feels that way.

Ronnie Liardon 13:54

Several of these guys that brought tails today, including me, if I had a clapper that would — all the pigs in the country would lay down and be dead, I would be fine with that. So if they're all out of the mix right off the bat, sooner, the better.

Morgan O'Hanlon 14:07

Now that I'd seen the tail collection, I wanted to see the bounty hunters in action. Ronnie put me in touch with his sons, who participate in the program. I drove back out to Bosque County one last time for the experience. When I pulled up to the Liardon family homestead, the sun was setting over the horizon.

James Liardon 14:26

How do you think it'll be until it's completely dark, like 20 minutes? Maybe tops.

Morgan O'Hanlon 14:30

That's James, Ronnie's younger son. We're waiting for it to get dark, because hogs don't usually come out until after sundown, once temperatures have dropped. What do you think, ready? Is your scope charged? You have ammo? And that's James's older brother, Tyler. For them, it's pretty much a typical weekend night they're out hog hunting any chance they get.

Tyler Chiles 14:52

Year round, any time, unless it's like super cold, then we'll go. We'll go out on a Wednesday night if we want to.

Morgan O'Hanlon 14:59

Before we head out, the two gather their supplies. Taking out a hog requires a decent amount of firepower to break through their tough hides.

Tyler Chiles 15:06

The other night, I got about 30 yards from one and shot it with a .22 and killed it. A little bitty .22, but I mean, we're both running 7.62x39 and sometimes we don't knock them down. I don't know. I think some of it is kind of like a will to live. Some of them just don't want to die.

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:26

Although traps are much more effective at taking out large groups of hogs, that's beside the point for the two brothers.

Tyler Chiles 15:32

I know Dad wants to put out traps, but that's way less fun. Well, since I put it that way, it's a sport. Yeah.

Morgan O'Hanlon 15:39

They would be out here even if there wasn't a bounty, but the program certainly adds to the appeal. The boys use thermal scopes to find hogs in the dark, but they can often run upwards of $2,000 so James has used his bounty money to offset the cost.

James Liardon 15:54

I've taken 300 tails, but it's been between $10 and $7 so it bought me my thermal.

Morgan O'Hanlon 16:00

The brothers have secured permission from several neighbors to take out hogs on their properties. It's seen as a pest control service by many landowners, and the boys get a free place to hunt in return. Tyler tells me to follow behind them on our way out to the first property.

Tyler Chiles 16:13

Are you gonna need help getting out of there? Okay, yeah, you can just back up and then out the gate right there. Yep, that'll work.

Morgan O'Hanlon 16:26

The brothers keep their mics on in the car. They're still not so sure about being recorded, but I think they're getting a little bit more comfortable.

Tyler Chiles 16:34

I'm gonna put a pinch of snuff in when we get there too, so they're gonna hear a lot of p-p-p-p.

Morgan O'Hanlon 16:39

When we get to the first field, the sun is finished setting, and it's pitch black.

James Liardon 16:44

We're in Bosque County, still out here. There's some open spots, but there's a lot of trees. I mean, it's just good flat Texas Land.

Morgan O'Hanlon 16:52

After they gather their guns and tripods, we start to walk. James lays out the game plan.

James Liardon 16:57

What we do? We walk to the edge of the fields, and one of us will look around. And we use like the spot and stalk method, where you go into the edge of a field and you look around, if you see pigs, then you sneak up on them. Try to get as close as you can before you shoot to have the best odds as a close follow up shot.

Morgan O'Hanlon 17:12

But there's a ton of factors that influence how close you can get to a target.

James Liardon 17:16

Qhich way the wind's blowing, how it's blowing, how fast is it blowing. Like the ground that you're walking on, if you're walking on a bunch of dead stuff, where it's loud, you won't be able to get as close.

Morgan O'Hanlon 17:25

Ideally, James and his brother want to be downwind so their scent doesn't alert the animal.

James Liardon 17:29

Scopes look good tonight, good weather.

Morgan O'Hanlon 17:32

The brothers tell me there's an 85 to 100% chance we'll see hogs tonight. Even so, they're nervous. The reporter's here, and it's pretty clear they want to show off.

James Liardon 17:43

I hope we can get on pigs.

Tyler Chiles 17:45

It's gonna be embarrassing if we don't.

James Liardon 17:46

Yeah I know.

Morgan O'Hanlon 17:48

They know they're on the right track when they see signs pigs have already been here.

James Liardon 17:52

For the backfield though, I have pretty high hopes, because dad just planted corn there, like, three or four days ago.

Tyler Chiles 17:58

This is all tore up right here, though.

James Liardon 18:00

Yeah, it is. All this right here in the road's tore up too.

Morgan O'Hanlon 18:05

Pigs tend to tear up crops and roads as they look for food and places to wallow in the mud. Pigs have been here, that's for sure, but they still haven't crawled out from the brush in the cover of darkness.

James Liardon 18:16

I got nothing yet.

Tyler Chiles 18:20

I'm surprised we can't smell them with this wind.

Morgan O'Hanlon 18:23

Then they spot one.

Tyler Chiles 18:25

Hey, I got a single out here. You wanna go get him?

James Liardon 18:31

Yeah, looks like a fairly big pig.

Tyler Chiles 18:34

Yeah. Let's go.

Morgan O'Hanlon 18:36

We lower our voices to a whisper as we carefully walk across the field.

James Liardon 18:40

I think if we could get 75 or 100 yards, 100 yards.

Tyler Chiles 18:44

75! I guess you're not expecting a follow up shot.

James Liardon 18:48

No, I'm expecting a dead pig. Let's get like 15-20 more yards.

Tyler Chiles 18:56

Hold up. Hold up. He's got his ears up. I think we'll have to shoot him real quick.

James Liardon 19:02

I mean I'm good right here.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:04

Once they've gotten close enough, they set down their tripods and prepare to fire.

Tyler Chiles 19:09

You on him?

James Liardon 19:12

Yeah.

Tyler Chiles 19:12

Alright, one, two. Yep, that got him.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:20

We walk up to inspect the pig. It's got large tusks that match its hefty size.

Tyler Chiles 19:25

He got some decent little cutters on him.

James Liardon 19:27

He's probably 150.

Morgan O'Hanlon 19:30

Before we head off to the next property, we have to grab the truck, come back and collect the carcass.

Tyler Chiles 19:35

It's a long walk across the telephone pole field. Guess we better get started complaining ain't gonna get us there.

James Liardon 19:42

I get an adrenaline rush whenever I see pigs, but the walk back always hurts. Now we gotta find him. It's farther this way, wasn't it?

Tyler Chiles 19:56

Yeah, he's further up. I think he's a little bit to the left. I think he's inside the turn rows.

Morgan O'Hanlon 20:02

James climbs up on the flatbed and waits for Tyler to hand him a leg.

Tyler Chiles 20:06

Oh, he's got cuckleberries on him. Back feet.

James Liardon 20:14

Oh, this is gonna be a good one to bleep out. Ready?

Tyler Chiles 20:20

There you go. All right, onto the next one.

Morgan O'Hanlon 20:26

I was just happy to see one, but the boys weren't as impressed with their own work.

Speaker 1 20:31

Yeah one so far, not good. I mean, we usually get —

James Liardon 20:36

Probably three or four.

Tyler Chiles 20:37

At least three or four, sometimes five or six.

Morgan O'Hanlon 20:41

We hit another three properties that night, and the brothers killed one more later on. After that, it was close to midnight and time for me to head back home. The hunt marked the end of my hog journey in Bosque County, but I still had some questions about the bigger picture. When we come back, I'll talk with Justin Foster, a biologist at Kerr Wildlife Management Area, who will put it all in perspective that, and more, after the break. From Big Bend to Barcelona, Whole Earth Provision Company, outfits free spirits and side questers alike in superb quality goods. Find them in-store or online at wholeearthprovision.com

Speaker 2 21:24

Attention boaters nearby lakes have harmful invasive species like giant salvinia and zebra mussels. You can help stop the spread. Clean, drain and dry your boat before traveling from lake to lake and protect the lakes you love. Visit tpwd.texas.gov/stopinvasives.

Morgan O'Hanlon 21:48

After I experienced hog bounty hunting firsthand, I wanted some help to better understand what I'd seen. Do bounty programs like Bosque County's even work? And, if they do, why should it matter to people who care about Texas wildlife? To answer these questions, I set up a call with Justin Foster, one of TPWD's research coordinators who spent countless hours thinking about the feral hog problem. His face popped up on my screen, and the first thing I saw was a bushy gray horseshoe mustache. Above it, his eyes were dark and sunken. He explained that he'd been up all night remotely monitoring hog traps out in the field.

Justin Foster 22:24

Well, good morning. My name is Justin Foster and I am the regional research coordinator for Texas Parks and Wildlife Department Region II. I office out of the Kerr Wildlife Management Area.

Morgan O'Hanlon 22:37

And Justin, what do you know about hogs?

Justin Foster 22:38

I probably don't know as much as I need to know about feral pigs, but I have some absorbed some information through focus study of the feral pig at the Kerr Wildlife Management Area. Since about 2010 I've been tasked with evaluating tools and techniques that would improve our abilities to manage feral pigs — that is to reduce their numbers on the landscape, mitigate their spread and also mitigate the damages that they do.

Morgan O'Hanlon 23:16

And Justin, why does TPWD employ somebody like you?

Justin Foster 23:20

In terms of research, that is a huge foundation upon which wildlife management is based. We're always learning. We always need to learn, environments are always changing, and the species that live within them are always changing. So it's a dynamic process that requires purposeful and intentional research to understand better the needs of the species that we're interested in, and also to understand the impacts of management techniques that we employ. Specifically with feral pigs, the reason that we're invested in this is because feral pigs pose quite a threat, you could say, to our native species and their respective habitats.

Morgan O'Hanlon 24:16

And you told me that, as a researcher, you study means and methods of controlling the hog population. So, I know that there are a lot of different ways — in the news we see these articles about helicopter gunning, various types of poisons. Can you give me a quick rundown of all the various types of means and methods you study?

Justin Foster 24:37

We specifically investigate the development of toxicants and delivery systems for the feral pig. Other means of controlling feral pigs include aerial gunnery, in some cases precision shooting. People snare feral pigs off of fence lines and other sets. People use dogs to capture feral pigs. Exclusion fences can work. Hot wires or electric fences can also work.

Morgan O'Hanlon 25:11

A quick note, Justin also wanted me to make sure that I mentioned that box traps and corral traps with on site and remote triggers, like the ones he stayed up all night monitoring are the most commonly used methods,

Justin Foster 25:22

But with the feral pig, there's no guarantees that any of those are ever gonna stop them completely.

Morgan O'Hanlon 25:30

So bounty programs are not a means in and of themselves, but they are a way that several counties across the state are employing to encourage their citizens to implement some of these means and methods. How effective are those?

Justin Foster 25:47

Efficacy of any feral pig control scheme is actually kind of difficult to relate to, and one of the reasons is that there's so many methods out there and it's quite burdensome to study those things. So oftentimes it's so laborious and expensive to conduct those kinds of studies that we do not have too many apples-to-apples comparisons of different methods. Moreover, I would say that all of these methods have their own case specific efficiencies. And those are driven by things like climate, local culture of the people, their view on feral pigs. I would bet money that when you have a culture of people that are essentially mad at feral pigs and working together, there's a potential for something like a bounty program to inspire people to continue to do it. But for those kind of programs to work, you've got to get more people in the field spending more time and more effort than they would have been otherwise. To make it even more complicated, in the end we have to get that down to: what is the cost per pig removed? And to compare methods, we have to have that kind of information.

Morgan O'Hanlon 27:22

So the landscape that you've depicted is kind of a patchwork, or maybe even kind of a crapshoot, for how we're going about tackling this problem. With that in mind, how do we ever solve this if we don't know which methods are more effective, and there's so many different ways to do it, and there is no coordinated effort to really play a game of Risk with these animals, like totally wipe them off the map.

Justin Foster 27:48

There certainly is organized effort at managing the feral pig here in the United States. But I think what you mean is that this is definitely a problem which we have only really been facing for a few decades. Truthfully, after what you might say, the pig bomb, and we started seeing these huge increases in geographic spread and populations and therefore impacts, you're absolutely correct. It's complicated, multifaceted in the way that we go about this. As a young person, I would have told you that, hey, all investment from this day forward should be put into research and developing the silver bullet. And I'm thankful I had that attitude, because it's given me years of pursuit of better understanding a pig and finding chinks in their armor so that we can bring information to light that could be useful to manage them. However, after having been focused on the feral pig, I would say that education is still important. In fact, it's more important to me than ever, and, that is, we've got to have people that are out there managing natural resources, whether it be land or wildlife. They have to understand, not only the impacts, but they've got to understand how to manage these animals. And we still haven't really stabilized the population trajectory would be my guess, although we really don't know exactly how many feral pigs are on the landscape. Because that, in and of itself, is the difficult estimate to make that is wrought with variables that sometimes we may not even understand or we're not even aware those variables exist. So we don't have all of the information that we need.

Morgan O'Hanlon 29:53

Some states, including Ohio and Kentucky, have outlawed hog hunting outright because they think that it might create an incentive to keep hogs around. After all, in Texas, hunters are willing to shell out cash for trophy hunts, and, with the bounty programs, the government is even paying hunters to go out and shoot some pigs. So do you think there's a real concern in this? Is there any possibility that these programs could do more harm than good?

Justin Foster 30:20

I kind of need to draw a distinction there between regulated hunting of an invasive wild pig versus a bounty program for them. No, I don't think hunting, in and of itself, can be more of a problem than having feral pigs on the landscape. Moreover, I don't believe that hunting can be blamed for the feral pig problem we have in the United States. I said it long ago, and I'll say it again, humans like pigs. There's been seven independent domestications of the Eurasian boar, at least. That's kind of indicative of we humans like our pigs. And so you can't blame hunting for that. I would say, when you look at states like Tennessee or some of these other states that have imposed a no hunting regulation, that's really getting at the motives to have wild pigs on the landscape, motives or lack thereof. And so there's other motives to have feral pigs on the landscape that may have nothing to do with money. We have assimilated, in some ways, the feral pig into our culture. A bounty is simply motivating the take of feral pigs off the landscape.

Morgan O'Hanlon 32:09

With all of these unknowns, is there any chance right now that the feral hog ever gets eradicated? Or is that even our goal right now. Is that way too many steps ahead of where we're at.

Justin Foster 32:21

I think that's a fair question. Are we talking about eradication or mitigation? And I think the words are written all over this discussion. We need to set lofty goals and all of us working together to make a beneficial impact. And I think that can be done, but I think it's going to take education, new technology research to develop that new technology or those new techniques. I believe that eradication of the feral pig is so lofty a goal that that's not what drives me to work every day.

Morgan O'Hanlon 33:04

Eradication is not what drives you to the office every day. What is it?

Justin Foster 33:09

Well it's knowledge and experience of having seen the impacts of the feral pig on people. Fish and wildlife and their respective habitats is part of who we are as humans, as Americans, as Texans, and we treasure those resources greatly. And thus, when we have that knowledge that those things are being impacted, we're motivated to do something about it.

David Yoskowitz 33:41

So how was it?

Morgan O'Hanlon 33:47

What?

David Yoskowitz 33:47

Your first hog hunt.

Morgan O'Hanlon 33:49

Oh, well, I wasn't actually the one pulling the trigger, but I still learned a lot. I grew up in the city, so it was really incredible to me how these two young guys and their friends know how to do all this stuff. It's a much more productive use of your weekends and playing video games like I did as a kid and now.

David Yoskowitz 34:06

So my first experience with feral hogs was actually at a city park where I saw that the amount of damage that they did was very impactful and actually produced a situation in which a majority of that part couldn't be used for quite a while. My next experience with feral hogs was getting involved in hunting them and being at least a little bit, a wee bit, part of the solution. We still have a long ways to go, as I understand.

Morgan O'Hanlon 34:37

Yeah, you know, as a lifelong Texan, I've always known that hogs were a big problem, but I've been really insulated from it, and I think just working for TPWD, I've started to learn a lot more. So I really hope that me and other people who work for the department can spread the word. And I think awareness for the issues that feral hogs cause is definitely on the uprise, so.

David Yoskowitz 34:59

Absolutely and you can find great cookbooks on how to prepare feral hogs. Jesse Griffiths, who's a great supporter of the department, has produced his own hog book, and so there's plenty of ways to take care of the issue.

Morgan O'Hanlon 35:15

What's your favorite feral hog recipe?

David Yoskowitz 35:18

Oh, I just like a backstrap on the grill that's kind of been marinating in some olive oil and salt and black pepper. That's a great way to have it.

Morgan O'Hanlon 35:30

Well, Justin Foster, our biologist left me pretty assured that there's a whole huge network of agencies involved in the fight against feral hogs: TPWD, the USDA Wildlife Services, the Agrilife Extension, that's just to name a few, and they're continuing their boots on the ground work. But what else do you think the future holds in the story of feral pigs?

David Yoskowitz 35:52

So I think the role of Texas Parks and Wildlife Department will be twofold. One, it'll be continuing to do the research to better understand what's driving these feral hogs, the reproductive cycle, how we can bring that to bay, right? How we can get a handle on bringing down population growth, working with our partner agencies such as ag commission and Texas Animal Health Commission and others. And I think the second part is to work with our landowners. They're the ones that are being impacted, and so the department as a resource to those landowners is going to be important.

Morgan O'Hanlon 36:31

Whole Earth Provision Company has been helping Texans roam wild and free since 1970. Whether you're road tripping through the Hill Country, catching a sunrise at Enchanted Rock or planning a summer park hop. They've got what you need to do it right. Think sun protective shirts, trail tested sandals, packable hats and water bottles that actually keep your drinks cold. Traveling light? They've got carry ons, duffels and gear bags from the names you trust, and if you forgot your shades or backup charger, well, they've got those too. Visit one of their six Texas stores or shop 24/7 at wholeearth provision.com. For 25 years, Texans have been contributing to conservation when they buy specialty license plates for their vehicles, trailers or motorcycles. You can choose from 11 eye-catching plates featuring colorful illustrations of outdoors imagery, including the bighorn sheep, the horned lizard, the bluebonnet and so much more. And for $30 a year, you too can ride with the wild TPWD gets back $22 of that annual purchase for wildlife, land, water and habitat conservation. Visit conservation plate.org to see them all, make your selection and help drive conservation forward. Better Outside, a Texas Parks and Wildlife Production, is brought to you by Whole Earth Provision Company. This episode was written and recorded by me, Morgan O'Hanlon. Story edited by Wes Ferguson and Aislyn Gaddis for Free Range Production. Sound design and audio engineering by Austin Sisler at Eastside Studios in Austin, Texas. Our theme song was written and recorded by Walker Lukens and rant Eppley. Artwork for the show is by Aaron Zachary. For more information about hog hunting in Texas, check out the Texas Outdoor Annual, the annual publication that contains all state hunting and fishing regulations. The Outdoor Annual is available online. And, guess what, there's an app for that! You can download the Texas Outdoor Annual in the app store. If you like this story, you can find more work by me and other outdoors writers at tpwmagazine.com. All of this information, along with transcripts, photos, links and so much more, is available in our show notes. You can find them at betteroutside.com and of course, you can find Better Outside wherever you get your podcasts. That's all for this episode. See y'all next time and thanks for joining us outside.