September 19, 2023 Transcript

September 19, 2023

Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
Airport Commerce Facility
Ed Werland Training Room
1340 Airport Commerce Park Buildling 6, Austin, TX 78741 Council Meeting

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay.  Good morning, everyone.  Before we begin -- well, before we begin, I'm Jeff Hildebrand, the Chairman of Texas Parks and Wildlife, newly anointed into that position and so excited about it and one of the duties, as you probably all know, is I also Chair the Texas Farm and Ranch Lands Conservation Council.  

So I'm very happy to be here, and I look forward to meeting you-all.  I've met you, but getting to know you better. So with that, let me take the roll call. 

Jeff Hildebrand present. 

Council Member Abby Frank? 

No? 

Rex Isom? 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Here. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Leslie Kinsel? 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Present. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Natalie Koehler? 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Present. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Roel Lopez? 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  Here in spirit. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Here in spirit. Susan Maldonado? 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  Here. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Kimberly Burr? 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Here. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Kathleen Ligon? 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  George Peyton is here for Kathleen Ligon. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, that's George Peyton.  Got it. All right.  Gilly Riojas? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  He's absent, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Absent. Romey Swanson? 

COUNCIL MEMBER SWANSON:  Here. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  All right, great. Good morning.  The meeting is called to order on September 19th, 2023, at 10:04 a.m. Before proceeding with any business, I believe Mr. Estrella has a statement to make. 

MR. ESTRELLA:  Thank you, Chairman Hildebrand. 

Public notice of this meeting containing all items on the proposed agenda has been filed with the Office of the Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 Government Code referred to as the Open Meetings Act. I would like for this fact to be noted in the official record of this meeting. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Great, thank you. Thank you very much. 

All right.  Item No. 1, just it's a warm welcome.  Welcome everyone.  I look forward to learning more about the organization, the Council, and the good work it does.  I've had certainly some involvement in conservation easements.  I believe I'm a conservationist.  I'm rancher, a hunter, cattleman, a little bit of everything, and I take very seriously the notion of conserving our Great State of Texas from being rampantly overdeveloped and to keeping it in as natural state as possible, but as well working with industry, whether it be the oil and gas industry, renewables, developers, whatever it may be, in a conscientious and thoughtful way. 

Because, again, clearly some states have just limited all future development and, you know, as they say, you know, they treat it like a snow globe. And, you know, this is not a snow globe where you shake it up and you look at it and it's pretty.  I mean, this is a state where we do good business and have an active level of commerce.  So I look forward to the balance of that.  I think these conservation programs are really quite fantastic and will do many, many things to keep the State of Texas the way it is. 

So -- so with that, I want to welcome all our Council members.  Unfortunately Dave Scott has completed his term as a Council member.  Mr. Scott served two terms serving in the capacity as Statewide Ag Rep. and we appreciate his service to the Council. 

We're currently still seeking a replacement for Mr. Scott.  If any of you know of someone who might want to serve on the Council, please let Mr. Abernathy know and he will reach out to them. So thank you for that. 

So Action Item No. 2, I've got a Review and Approval of Minutes from the September 22nd[sic], 2022, Council meeting, which have already been distributed. 

Is there a motion for approval? 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  So moved. 

COUNCIL MEMBER SWANSON:  Second. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  All right.  All in favor, please say aye. 

(Chorus of ayes) 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Any opposed? Hearing none, motion carries.  Thank you very much. So Briefing Item No. 3, we've got an Ethics Review for New Council Members.  Mrs. -- Ms. Theda Strickler, would you please make your presentation. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Good morning. 

(Inaudible) okay.  So this is usually for new Council members (inaudible) -- 

THE REPORTER:  I can't hear her. 

MS. STRICKLER:  -- and Council stand-ins and this information is relevant whenever you're acting in your capacity as a Council member because (inaudible) you're acting as a public official.  So there's certain laws -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Is the mic on? 

THE REPORTER:  I can't hear her. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Okay, I'll start over. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, turn up the volume. 

MR. GARCIA:  This room does not have audio unfortunately, so you will have to project your voice. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Okay.  I will speak loudly. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  That's just a faux microphone. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  For effect. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And by the way, note to file, next time we have a meeting, we need a working audio/video presentation. Okay?  Got it, Dee? 

MS. HALLIBURTON:  Yes, sir.  I do. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, thank you. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Do you want me to start over? 

THE REPORTER:  Yes, please. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Okay.  So whenever you are acting in your capacity as Council members, you are also acting as a public official.  So there are certain laws and rules that will apply to you in that capacity and that's what we're going to go over.  It's going to be a quick refresher because we just have some stand-ins and it's good to have a refresher. 

So the first is the Open Meetings Act and what you need to know about that is that we post public notice that this is going to happen and we're limited in what we can do to what's on the posted agenda. 

And all of these have the links that are in your books.  So if you want to go and explore the additional materials, you are free to do so. 

So the Public Information Act, that's another one that is important and this usually will -- well, it becomes relevant when we have a member of the public or anybody really can submit a public information request to us and then information/documents that are not confidential can be disclosed to that person, published, made public.  Once it leaves our hands, then we have no control over what happens to it.  So it could end up on the front page of the newspaper. 

When we get a public information request, if it includes information that we think is confidential or sensitive -- for example, if it's attorney-client privilege communication or it's covering a matter that's related to ongoing or anticipated litigation, then we let the Attorney General's Office know that we've gotten that request and we get their guidance on what we can withhold. 

The Administrative Procedure Act, what you need to know about this is that the Council does have rule-making authority.  It hasn't used it so far, but it has rule-making authority and if it were to ever go through that process, that would be governed by the Administrative Procedure Act, just like any other governmental entity or governmental body. 

The next few slides have some information on general ethics laws, recommendations for dealing with lobbyists, and some information on how we do our contracting with this program. 

So ethics, really the important thing for y'all to know about or at least be keeping in mind is the conflict of interest issue and that's not just an actual conflict of interest, but we also ask you to think about perceived conflicts as well.  Members of the public pay attention to what we do here and if a Council member has an actual or even just a perceived conflict of interest, then that's something that we would expect you to bring up and potentially recuse yourself from considering that matter.  And there are some criminal stiff, you know, potential consequences for breaking some of these recommendations.  That just kind of goes over what I just said. 

Council members do file a personal financial statement every year on April 30th. 

Lobbyists. So something to think about with lobbyists, there are certain circumstances where you can interact with lobbyists; but even if you do, then that information again might become public. So strongly recommend against it. 

And this is kind of on the back-end. Y'all probably won't be faced with many of our contracts or become even maybe aware of them unless there's an issue.  But after we select the projects, then we go through a contracting procedure to finalize those agreements, paper them up, and because we're a state agency, the contracts are -- they're required to go through some certain levels of review, mostly by me, to make sure that they conform to some of the state standards.  So that means that unlike private entity contracts, there's a little bit less wiggle room on what we can agree to and those contracts will be fairly uniform. 

Just a couple of other things to think about.  When you go to lunch, there's no reimbursement for alcoholic beverages.  You know, state property, don't abuse it, don't misuse it.  There's an exception for incidental use of printing something out, but that's about it.  And then something to think about as we go into this fall, state funds cannot be used to influence the passage or defeat of legislation.  You can talk about legislation.  You can encourage people to go vote. You can give them information about, you know, here's what different proposals might mean.  But when you're acting in your capacity as a Council member, you're a public official.  It's important not to put an emphasis or an opinion on suggesting what someone should or should not vote for. And this is just a note that so far there haven't been any official policies adopted by the Council.  That is something y'all could do, but it's not on the agenda.  So that wouldn't be today.  But in the future, something to think about. 

And that's it for me.  Questions? 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Great, thank you. Any questions for Ms. Strickler? I've actually got a couple.  One is are Council members required to file financial statements? 

MS. STRICKLER:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  They are, okay. Secondly, are they required to go to kind of board certification training? 

MS. STRICKLER:  That I don't think so. James? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  They're required -- Open Meetings. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  We had to take a couple classes. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yeah, we did a training online. 

MS. STRICKLER:  Okay, yes. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  You did?  What is it?  Do we know? 

MS. STRICKLER:  I can send you that information.  I can get with James and send you a -- I can send the group -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  The Open Records training we had to do online. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  I just know on other boards that I've served on in the State of Texas, I required to go to a certified -- kind of a board member training. 

MS. STRICKLER:  I imagine that it's all going to be training that you've already had as a Commissioner, but -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  I understand not for me, but for other on the Council -- 

MS. STRICKLER:  New members, yes.  Yes. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- because all these rules are wonderful.  They're complicated, and it probably needs more than ten minutes of discussion. 

MS. STRICKLER:  And when we don't -- when we don't just have stand-ins and we have new members that come in, I go into more detail.  This was the refresher version of the training. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay.  Could I find out what the name of the board certification training process that the Council members go through? 

MS. STRICKLER:  Yes, I will send you information. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, great.  All right, thank you. All right.  Briefing Item 4, Status of Texas Farm and Ranch Lands Conservation Program Existing Projects.  Mr. Chris Abernathy, please make your presentation. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman.  I'm the program manager for the Texas Farm and Ranch Lands Program.  Unfortunately my face and voice are what you get to listen to for the next hour or so. My wife -- my wife can understand. 

So we do a little bit more housekeeping. Typically -- excuse me. Typically we do a little bit of history on the program. That's what this is. So the program originally originated in the General Land Office and in 2015, the House amended the Bill 1925 -- amended the Parks and Wildlife Code Chapter 84, which is our controlling legislation and then transferred the management of the program to Texas Parks and Wildlife and they appropriated and earmarked $2 million each biennium for our -- for our program. 

The legislation also created the conservation fund, which is the $2 million that we pay the agreements through and created the criteria for awarding the grants and I'll go through those criteria shortly and it also created the Council, which y'all sit on. 

The function of the Council -- obviously, what you're doing right now -- is to provide program oversight to what the staff do on a day-to-day basis. You help us select the applicants to receive the grant awards.  You authorize me to enter into grant agreements with those awards and as Theda said, we do -- you adopt the rules.  You can accept outside funding if we have opportunity to do so and can establish fees and charges related to the services.  We have not done any of those things to do date. 

You also enable -- well, the entire program is to enable the purchase and facilitation of conservation easements and the program is designed to protect habitat, species, and water quality.  And if y'all don't know what a working land is, it's privately owned, traditionally farmed or ranch land, timberland, or lands managed for wildlife.  We try to give priority to those lands that are highly threatened for development.  Okay, so that's the housekeeping portion of the program. 

So these are our current projects to date, closed projects. We've got a pretty good representation across the state, but you can tell the majority of the projects land in the Hill Country. We've got some good coastal projects.  We actually have some in Far West Texas.  The one next to the Chihuahuan Desert, that's the Miller Ranch.  That's over 11,000 acres.  The one up on the border of Texas and Mexico is the Pietila Ranch. I think that's another six or 7,000 acres, two of the largest properties we have. 

So we've had four funding cycles to date. We've had 24 properties close to date.  Currently we still have four that are open.  They will close by the end of the year and we have two projects that withdrew. You know, we had people that came into the program, they were going through the program and the landowners basically got a better offer.  They got a pipeline offer, a trespass fee, and they chose to take that instead of going through a conservation easement. But those are the only two withdrawals that we've had in to program to date.  Currently we're protecting over 42,000 acres. 

So funding I've received -- again, it's 2 million every two -- every two years. So we've received about 6.4. And let me just preface that by saying, Mr. Chairman, we pull 10 percent off of 2 million every two years and that's for operational costs, benefits, things like that. So really I have about 1.8 million that I designate towards projects and you'll see that when we show our awards. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And does that 10 percent G and A go to Texas Parks and Wildlife? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  It actually stays -- it actually stays with the program.  So it pays my benefits, pays my salary, pays my operational costs, travel, marketing. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Are you the only employee that -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I am the sole employee of the Texas Farm Lands Program. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay.  All right, thank you. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Lean for government. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We've also received up to $20 million of federal funds over the course of the program and we've received over $7 million in matching funds over the course of the program.  So we do pretty well economically. 

So this conservation value is -- so CV, conservation value is the total value of all the properties that we conserve.  $57 million worth of value, appraised value.  And so the ratio of our funding through the conservation value is nine-to-one.  So we're getting $9 of conserved value for every single dollar that we spend. 

Yes, ma'am. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Just to clarify the value, is that the value of the property or the value of the conservation easement? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  That is the appraised value of the conservation easement. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Okay, thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Because we all know there's about a 30 to 50 percent offset from the total value of the property versus the conservation value. And so we've spent -- right now our average -- I mean, if you could find someone else that tells me that they've spent $150 an acre to buy property, I doubt you would find that.  So we're doing really, really well on our cost per acre.  And if you consider all the contributions -- the federal, the matching funds -- we're spending about $615 an acre. 

All right. that is the status, sir.  We are -- do you have any questions? 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Any questions? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I will try to slow down. 

I'm sorry.  It's just the way I talk. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  So I'm sorry.  I have one.  So the $615 per acre, is that the acquisition cost for the conservation easement or that's just the money coming in from -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  That is the acquisition cost. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So we typically -- so we pay what we call the due diligence.  So out of those funds, the applicant will apply to us.  They'll bring us a budget.  So they've targeted a property and say that landowner's willing to donate that property or sell it as a bargain sale, so they look for acquisition funds and they look at what we call due diligence funds, which are survey, appraisal, background survey, staff costs, project management costs, things like that, and pay all those separately. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, great.  I mean, that's -- seems like a pretty good value to be able to spend $151 and leverage those other -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  -- sources of funding coming in. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We've been very fortunate. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, great. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  If I total, it's about $34 million of funding to date; but you have 57.8 million of conservation value. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  How is that? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So that is typically some of the properties are donated and some of the properties are done what's called bargain sale.  So the Land Trust, that's a deal between the land trust and the land owner. They come together with a budget, whatever the landowner feels like they're comfortable with.  Some people ask for a full appraisal value.  Some are willing to donate a portion of that value which is tax deductible over a period of ten years and some people donate the entire portion.  So that's where that -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So more than likely that delta is the donated value -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- of the property. 

Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And you get tax deduction and -- got it, okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So these -- we're going to talk about this year's applications, the reason that we're all here today.  So we received -- and let me just -- a little history, I'm sure everybody remembers. But, you know, the Agency and the Land Trust community made a pretty hard push towards the Legislature to increase our funding this year.  It did not happen this time.  We asked for an extra $8 million.  Hopefully we'll get that next time.  So in spite of that, we still had over 15 applications received and you'll see the -- and if you look at the bottom line, the total request of my program this year was $4 million.  So we still have a lot of interest.  Even though people knew we weren't getting this big bump in funds, we still had a lot of interest in the program. 

I got -- I got applications from nine different Land Trusts and 12 different counties ranging from 51 acres all the way up to 2,300 acres.  And again, as I mentioned, they requested $4 million to complete projects by almost $24 million. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  And is that pretty typical of given -- of a given year -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  -- that number of projects coming in kind of creates that -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We've had as many as 19. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We've always had to turn down some.  We haven't been able to fund everything. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  There's always been excess demand for the program -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  -- relative to the funds that -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And that was kind of the hope that we had -- that we'd hoped to show the Legislature that we had an increased need; but, again, we can still hope for that next time. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Chris, question. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Through the Legislative process, what feedback do y'all get as to why they would be reluctant to provide the additional funding? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I'm probably not the best person to answer that question. Winney, would you care to answer that question?  I mean, Allison, would you care to answer that question? 

MS. WINNEY:  Sure.  Basically when we put in our exceptional item request, we had requested the eight additional million.  I think there was feedback from the Legislature that many members didn't feel comfortable with conservation easements. There were comments about how are we benefiting private landowners with state funds, as well as, you know, can we -- I think there have -- there 
were specific stories that were provided to us about the ability to change a conservation easement.  So if a landowner decided they want to put it into a conservation easement, but then a relative later on down the line wanted to be able to use that for a different purpose, the conservation easement would not allow them to do that.  And so there are situations where either constituents of a member provided those circumstances and that was relayed to us that those were their concerns that if -- if someone had a conservation easement, they would not be able to change that, which is the purpose obviously of a conservation easement.  So those were some of the items that we received feedback-wise from the members and why they ultimately did not provide us with $8 million that we requested. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Thank you. 

MS. WINNEY:  You're welcome. 

DR. YOSKOWITZ:  By the way, this is Allison Winney -- 

MS. WINNEY:  Oh, yes. 

DR. YOSKOWITZ:  -- our Chief of Staff of the Department and Allison was with Government -- 

Governmental Affairs Team. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Okay, Mr. Chairman.  This is our summary of all the applications we've received, and I know it's a spreadsheet.  It's a lot of numbers. I'm going to go over each one individually, but these are the ranking that the ranking team created.  Like I said, we had 15 projects.  Every county represented acreage from 250 down to 95 acres and you can see the differences in the estimated market value sometimes and the purchase price.  Sometimes they're the same. Sometimes there's a difference and that's that donated version that we talked about, that donated sale. 

If you look at the grant request, obviously we can't fund the entire acquisition.  We just don't have the funding.  So typically they will look at marrying state money.  If you look at the NRCS contribution column, they marry our money with federal money and that's how we get a lot of those acquisitions and then a lot of people will provide matching funds as well. 

Any questions about the spreadsheet? 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Where do those matching funds typically come from? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Typically they can come from a collection of places.  Some -- some -- Hill Country Conservancy, for one, found a 2 million dollar grant from Hays County.  So sometimes they find it from other funding sources.  Sometimes they find it themselves.  It's just kind of -- it's a mixed bag, of where the funding -- but the majority of funding comes from NRCS. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So just -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  So one more question. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Go ahead, Leslie. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  On your last column, Chris, you have TPWD cost per acre.  Are you referring to the Council?  This program's cost per acre? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, ma'am.  Yes, ma'am. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Okay.  So the -- 

or no -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Not the Agency, per se. 

But, yes, ma'am, the program's cost per acre. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Okay, thank you. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah.  Just a little -- so estimated market value, conservation easement, purchase price.  So like John Knox Ranch, they are selling -- well, they're taking no tax -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  No deductions. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- deduction.  So that's a full valuation. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And does TFRLCP, do we -- is there a limitation on a percentage that we can contribute to this purchase price, conservation easement? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  No, sir.  There's not. 

If we feel the value -- a good example on that is Honey Creek Springs Ranch from two years ago, we slated $500,000 to it because we thought it was so critical that we protect that.  So this is a combination of the Land Trust coming to us with what they think we can afford and they all understand we have limited funds. 

All of these guys put together these amazing budgets to try to get the most bang for their buck. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Uh-huh.  Okay, great.  Thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  These are where the current projects lay across the state right now, the ones that we're going to see today.  Again, a big cluster -- you know, Hill Country just is the target for a lot of Land Trusts because obviously it's got a lot of pressure on it, a lot of resources, a lot of habitat. So you see a lot of concentration around the Hill Country.  But we've got two good ones in the coast and one up on the Red River area. 

So I mentioned the criteria earlier.  The legislation has nine criteria -- nine.  So threat of development is the number one criteria that we look at. It has the highest point value.  Then we look at the cost, the effected value, the economic value of that for 20 points.  We look at watershed value, fish and wildlife for 15.  Contribution to the conservation landscape means is it adjacent to or nearby an existing open space to help increase that open space. 

The terms of the conservation easement is a value that we have that is dictated by the Legislation.  All of our conservation easements are perpetual.  The Legislation accounts for a 30-year conservation easement.  So we could award more points for perpetual ones.  Since we do not do 30-year notes, all our conservation easements are perpetual. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Chris, I have a question on that last screen.  Would you please clarify where does the working land criteria or requirement of each property figure in?  Is it an overarching, or is it within these bullet points? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Well, all the properties are applied -- the Land Trusts know that you have to meet that working land requirement having an ag value designation or a wildlife designation.  So that qualifies them as a working lands from that point and then they submit those to us.  Does that answer your question? 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Yes, sir.  Thank you. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Chris, one other question just on criteria.  As I recall in the beginning when y'all reached out to outside industry, I think Jay Evans may have been involved. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  It was your suggestion or Rusty's. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  That's right.  I wasn't going to bring that up.  But my question is:  Has the criteria changed from -- selection criteria, has it changed any from the beginning once it was set up? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  Mr. Chairman, so if you remember, Rex, and you may have not -- you might have had your designee at that point.  About our second or third year in, we adjusted these criteria. 

The Land Trust community was saying you guys are not targeting -- I'm trying to phrase this as delicately as possibly. A lot of the properties that were coming in were more of what you and I might think of as a wildlife property. Not a working ranch, livestock, farm -- you know, farm or something like that.  So we -- and also the threat of development.  So we increased the -- we 
increased -- changed the numbers on threat of development and we changed the numbers on the cost effectiveness because we wanted just to bump up those properties a little bit more and also in the -- if you -- if I had the criteria in front of me, you can see there's this note in notated criteria where we're looking for best management practices, examples of good stewardship, things like that as well. 

And to answer your -- I think if you're going to go there, Mr. Isom, we do have that out -- we still kept that outside council.  Jay Evans served for two different terms and then we just recently got a new gentleman and it's Dr. Poncho Ortega from -- and he's serving as an ag representative as an external person. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Mr. Chairman, I expect that as time goes, it's important to fine-tune and listen to the public.  So that's the only reason I'm asking the questions about criteria. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  How -- when's the last time you changed the ranking of your selection criteria? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Just the one time, sir, about two years ago. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yeah, two years ago. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Two years ago.  And you said Poncho Ortega is an external adviser to us? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  And we can go there now.  We have an internal ranking team made up of subject matter experts, fish and wildlife experts; natural resource experts; myself, I serve on it; Jason Estrella serves on it.  Dr. Ortega, PhD in range science, he helps us serve on it.  So all of those people bring a different perspective and a different knowledge level to all of these properties.  And so each one of us, we rank and review as a team and then those scores are compiled and averaged out and that's where that ranking came from that you saw early.  And I'm going to go through all this one more time when we get to the next -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  I understand. Okay, great. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  And are y'all -- sorry. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  No, go ahead. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Are y'all physically visiting the properties when you do these rankings? 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  That's what I was wondering too. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We do not typically have the resources to visit all the properties. Sometimes we're able to send a wildlife biologist out or maybe we have a botanist -- the Jason Singhurst is a famous botanist.  He tries to visit the sites, but we trust on -- we rely on the Land Trusts.  The provide us great photos.  You guys are going to see photos today.  So they try to give us a really good representation of what the property has, what the resources are. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Hey, Chris, and I 

can add to that too.  The federal share, NRCS does go to the field to field verify those. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Okay, great. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  So there is people on the field if it's including federal funds. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Ms. Burr is our NRCS representative. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  We see the site. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We're going to see 15 slides just like this.  We're going to have a lot of data points and some pictures and we're going to go through those.  Please stop me at any point.  Every slide like this has the exact same information:  Where it's located, who the Land Trust is, what the requests are.  And so we're just going to go through those and, again, please stop me if you see something that you'd like to talk about. 

So John Knox Ranch was ranked No. 1.  260 acres in Hays and Comal County.  Hill Country Conservancy -- which we have some representatives here today -- they asked for 247,000 from us.  931,000 from NRCS.  And this has really got some really good matches that I mentioned earlier.  I think Mr. Peyton was asking.  $245,000 from the Meadow Center and $2.2 million from Hays County and then they got $5,000 from the Texas Land Trust Council.  So they had an amazing budget for this amazing property.  And so our average cost is $957 an acre.  The total market value is 3.6 million. 

It's located in Central Texas, just a little bit north of San Antonio.  And just some choice pictures of what some of the resources we're trying to protect.  And this is recharge zone with Edwards Aquifer. 

Okay, that's it.  So these are very quick.  So, please, if you see something you want to talk about, let me know. 

Cane Bayou, ranked No. 2 -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So just for example -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- that one's probably got a lot of watershed value, I assume? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Recharge value. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Not so much developmental pressure? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Not so much.  But, you know, Comal County is the fastest growing county in Texas.  I live in New Braunfels myself.  Thousands and thousands of homes are going up.  People are looking to move outside of -- outside of town.  So the development pressure on these, if it's not there, it's going to be there. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Uh-huh.  All right. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I believe that's all Edwards Aquifer limestone. 

Cane Bayou, that's on the coast, 2,300 acres by the Galveston Bay Foundation.  They asked for a little bit over $400,000 from us.  About 1.1 million from NRCS.  Again, private -- lots of different funding sources.  I'm really glad you asked that question because there's lots of different funding sources and they got 765,000 in private funding and another 15,000 from EPA.  Really low cost of per acre here for us, $180.  Total market value 2.3 million.  As you can see, it's down on the coast outside of Houston.  There's a little bit better map. Lots of migratory bird habitat here. 

Okay.  Onion Bayou, also on the coast, also from Galveston Bay Foundation, 450 acres. They asked 140,000 from us, 225 from NRCS, and 118,000 from private funding, 18,000 from EPA, and a cost of $311 per acre. Total market value $450,000. Again, very close to Onion Bayou -- I'm sorry, Cane Bayou. It's also on the -- outside of -- I think that's the -- yeah, the Anahuac National Wildlife Refuge. So a contribution of (inaudible) situation and I believe this is an active rice farm. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  You said you believe what? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  It's an active rice farm. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. So, for example, what makes Onion Bayou that unique? I mean, there are rice fields around it.  I mean, clearly that's not threat of development. Just trying to understand. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  This one in this instance, sir, I believe -- I mean, our strongest one was just the continuation of the Anahuac Wildlife Refuge.  The fact that it has -- it's an active farm. 

You know, farm is the first word in our name.  I mean, we do not have a lot of active farms.  I think it's critical to protect those properties that feed and clothe us. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  But you think that's contiguous to the Anahuac -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- Reserve? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  It's just north of that.  I believe it -- I'm not sure if it's contiguous, but it's very close to it. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  And threat of development can be anything that takes the land out of ag production.  So really our focus it could be conversion to windmill farms, solar farms, not just industrial houses -- I mean, industrial buildings or commercial -- or residential homes.  The threat of development is anything that would take that land out of ag is what we're trying to protect. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Including solar and wind? 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Uh-huh. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, you're right. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Wind can be compatible in a farm.  There's arguments about solar, mineral production, all that. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yes.  Hard to see how a solar farm is conducive to a farming operation. 

But anyway, okay, got it.  Understand. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And again a big wildlife -- or migratory bird habitat in this one. 

The next one is Cypress Creek in Hays County, 211 acres.  Also Hill Country Conservancy is the Land Trust.  $250,000 request from us, a little over $2 million request from NRCS, and the landowner -- 2.3 million landowner match.  $50,000 Borderlands Initiative Program. 

Did I get that right, Frank?  B-L-I-P, Borderlands Initiative. 

MR. FRANK DAVIS:  Can you repeat that one more time, please? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  The B-L -- the BLIP land is -- 

MR. FRANK DAVIS:  We do plan to make a request for that for -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  No.  But what's the acronym?  Remind me of the acronym. 

MR. FRANK DAVIS:  It's -- is it Boundary Lands Incentive? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Boundary Lands Incentive. 

MR. ESTRELLA:  No, that's the buffer lands. 

MR. FRANK DAVIS:  Buffer lands. 

(Simultaneous talking) 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Lots of acronyms.  That's where they're adjacent to military entities, correct? 

MR. FRANK DAVIS:  Right.  That's -- yeah, it's right in that area and then the idea is that would cover some of the transaction expenses. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Okay.  And again, cost per acre one point -- 1,100 an acre, $1,100 per acre. 

Estimated market value 4.6 million.  Located in Central Texas just north of San Antonio. 

Mr. Chairman, you addressed threat of development.  If you know Wimberley, you know Wimberley is growing crazy.  So to protect some property in Wimberley.  Again, very nice watershed, lot of cypress forest. 

Okay.  Jon James Ranch -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Hey, Chris, so one -- I will tell you one of the things that's going to be helpful to me and I think the other Council members is in the future, more detail on how you score these.  I mean, because it seems a bit ambiguous -- well, it is ambiguous as to why you pick Cy Creek over Jon James Ranch, why it's scored differently.  So in the future what I'd like to see is a more detailed description by property as to how you scored it and then maybe just some general comments as to why this one should be placed -- or should be available for funding. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Sure, we can definitely do that.  And maybe my order next time could be a little different.  So typically what I've always done is just presented the applications as a whole and then I'm going to show you our recommendations next and there's a little more detail into the selection process, but we can either change that order or we can definitely increase -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  I just want the detail as to why you are recommending these ranches -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- so the Council members can look at that data and make their own interpretation and ask you questions. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We can definitely do that, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Again, this is -- okay. 

So the Land Trust here, Native Prairies Association of Texas.  They asked $80,000 from Texas Farm and Ranch, $450,000 from NRCS, $150,000 in landowner cash match, with the cost of 357 per acre.  Estimated market value $600,000.  This is the one on the Red River. 

I will slow down.  I'm being told I'm talking too fast. 

This is the Jon James Ranch.  This is a really well-cared for property.  These are -- most of these have some grazing component to them. 

The J Warren Ranch in Harris County, 60 acres, Coastal Prairie Conservancy which used to be the Katy Prairie Conservancy in Houston is the Land Trust. 

They asked $65,000 from us and 1.5 million request from NRCS and the total cost per acre is 1,083.  Total market value 2.1 million.  This is outside of Houston.  So definitely a threat of development there.  Active cattle ranch.  Some opportunity for migratory waterfowl. 

Gary Lee Price Ranch -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And, you know, just further to this.  I mean, so one of the things we are challenged with is that we want to maintain farm and ranch land, correct? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  I mean, that's a real preference that these properties that are put into conservation easements continue as working cattle ranches, rice farms.  And that's a real -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  That's the goal, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- impetus that we have, correct? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  That's the goal. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  To maintain the baseline condition.  And you mentioned conservation easements. 

We can talk a little about conservation easements.  They cannot subdivide.  They cannot pave.  They cannot build. 

They cannot increase the impervious area-surface area significantly.  They have annual monitoring.  The Land Trusts are required to do annual monitoring.  They provide those annual monitoring reports to me. 

Those first generation landowners who want to enter the program, they're the best land stewards that we have.  The issues will come at some point when we're all gone is what I call second generation landowners, third generation -- not me.  I don't mean descendants.  I mean people who buy that property who do not have a vested interest in the land conservation or the conservation easement.  They just got a good deal.  Those are the ones that the monitoring is in place for, the easements are in place for, the restrictions are in place for those people that really come in later in life because, again, these are perpetual and it's difficult for all of us to kind of think in that perpetual mind frame.  So our writing, our word choices and the easements have to have a long-term meaning.  We have to be very specific about what all those things mean. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, the very issue she was talking about in terms of second/third generation wanting to terminate the trust.  Well, of course, we all do.  You know, we take the money and, you know, not have to live by the obligation of the contract.  Pretty good deal. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I used to work for the City of San Antonio for the Edwards Aquifer Protection Program and we had a few second generation landowners that did not -- again, they did not have that vested interest and so they felt that they could violate the terms of the easement.  So it does happen.  It hasn't happened here and hopefully won't happen for several years, but it could. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And you guys go out and do annual checks on these? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  The Land Trusts do the annual monitoring and all that, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  The Land Trust. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So the Land Trust is the holder. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Right.  Sure. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Defined by the IRS. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  We're just the funder. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We are just the funder. 

We have what's called third-party right of enforcement because we have a vested interest.  NRCS also has a third-party right of enforcement, but that is only -- we are only called when the Land Trust do not enforce the conservation easement satisfactorily, so then they ask for our help. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Understood.  Okay, thanks. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Quick question, if I may.  Can you talk to me about the terms of the conservation easement?  So if it's all -- let's take the rice farm.  It's already in rice production.  Are there terms in the conservation easement about that changing to some other type of farm or density?  I'm thinking cattle ranches, density of animals, that sort of thing. 

Are there -- or changes of animals.  Is it -- if it's conserved as a rice farm, does it have to stay a rice farm? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I don't believe it has to stay as a rice farm, but typically NRCS -- and, Kimberly help me out if I -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Sure. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  But typically they require a brush management plan or a grazing management plan and so that might lend itself towards the densities and the stocking rates that you mentioned.  But I don't believe there's any prohibition on stopping farming or changing the farming. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Right.  The only thing that the deed terms, the minimum requirements that NRCS would require is that if you're currently farming it -- or if it's currently in grassland, you cannot take that into farming.  It needs to stay in grassland.  If you're farming it, that's great.  You can -- and you can rotate your crops.  We want the -- it still needs to be profitable for the landowner.  But we're just not going to take land that has not been farmed and make it more intensive.  And there are benchmark conditions that are filed with the easement deed and that's what the -- you know, these Land Trusts that we work with are out there to help that landowner ensure that there's no violations and they're following whatever that deed says is what rules. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Yeah, and I was getting at the different terms of the deeds.  But you can take something out of farming into grass and then presumably put back into farming at some other time if that's... 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  It would be part of the -- we'd look at that in the easement management plan and that's what we're referring to.  You know, it's easement management plan.  Because once it's been cropped, you know, that's not such a big issue.  I'd still have to look at the deed terms on some of those. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, just curious.  Thank you. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  I have a question.  Could you speak a little bit to how the conservation easement terms just sort of operate in terms of like the growing threat of more aggressive Endangered Species Act action by the federal government? 

And I know in some instances, the Department is fielding constituent issues or questions that may, you know, result in that very -- in that very shift from cropland to grassland or idle acreage. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I don't know that we have anything specific towards, you know, protecting endangered species.  We have very -- we have specifics towards not violating the existing federal law or state law or anything like that.  These species existed at the baseline condition.  Obviously the primary goal of the easement is to maintain the prime -- or the baseline condition to protect those -- that habitat. 

There's several prohibitions within the easements typically that say you will not, cannot, should not do anything to violate any of the natural resources that are listed and they literally list all of the resources they're trying to protect:  The grass species, the plants, the caves, whatever.  Everything -- they list everything.  And so the entire easement is founded on that you will not violate or contaminate or whatever word you choose those natural resources. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  And it's a snapshot in time at the time that easement is -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  There's a baseline survey that's done at the time.  Typically the people who create the baseline survey, create fixed monitoring points based on some kind of cardinal system of, you know, east, west, whatever, and those are -- the photos are taken there at the same place each time looking for changes. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  So if I could just follow-up.  So as the federal government makes movement through federal rule-making to add additional species as threatened or endangered, how would the -- how would that interface with the terms of your conservation easement? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  That is a really good question.  We haven't come across that situation yet and I can't speak from the federal point of view. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  Uh-huh. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I suppose if a new species were identified on a property, we might have to amend the easement.  That would really be up to the Land Trust though, I think.  Because the Land Trust would bring the easement back to us and say, you know, we think we need some little more protection for the future landowners. 

We try not to amend these.  We try not to open these back up -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  Right. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  -- if we don't have to. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  Understood. 

Okay, thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I'm not sure where I was. 

I think this is the latest one.  There is the Gary Lee Price Ranch in Navarro and Ellis County, 230 acres, Texas Ag Land Trust is the Land Trust.  They requested a little over $400,000 from us and 1.2 from the NRCS, and they gave a $75,000 landowner match, 1,750 cost per acre.  Market value is 1.6 million.  It's outside of the Dallas metroplex. 

Okay.  Next one is Arbor Grassland, 110 acres in Waller County.  The Coastal Prairie Conservancy, this is theirs as well.  $215,000 request from us, $990,000 request from NRCS, a $270,000 cash match at a cost per acre of almost $2,000.  So located near Houston, and threat of development is high on this one.  Coastal prairie. 

And again, Mr. Chairman, just to point out, these are -- these are wetlands.  You know, obviously we try to protect these wetlands as well for migratory fowl. 

The Thrasher Leon River Ranch, 551 acres in Coryell County.  Texas Ag Land Trust is the Land Trust on this one as well.  $150,000 request from us, $1 million request from NRCS.  Almost a million dollar cash match from the landowner at a cost of $272 per acre.  Market value of 2.1 million.  Out near Fort Hood or Killeen.  And this has some adjacency to Mother Neff State Park.  As you can tell, these are not overgrazed. 

The riparian areas are intact. 

Okay.  The Jim King Ranch, 221 acres in Wilson County.  Guadalupe-Blanco River Trust is the Land Trust.  They asked 105,000 from us, 1.5 million from NRCS, $10,000 landowner cash match.  They put up their own $9,000, the Trust did.  They got a $5,000 grant from Texas Land Trust Council for a total cost of $475 per acre.  Just south of San Antonio.  This is one of our drone shots.  They provided us a drone shot.  And just for anybody's curiosity, the Land Trusts provides us with all of the photos that we -- you see today.  And so it's my job to kind of put them together, the ones that I think show the best view of the property. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And do you know the process that, say, Texas Ag Land Trust, how they execute this?  Is it we reactive or proactive?  Meaning, do they -- they find a piece of property that they say that's got great opportunity to preserve, you know, from development or watershed and they go after it or is it they essentially are receiving requests? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I think it can be both, Mr. Chairman.  I frequently receive calls.  People look online.  They see my phone.  They see my program.  They call me.  I listen to them.  I try to understand what it is they want to do.  I send them to the Texas Land Trust Council website for more information, for more -- if you look at -- if you know the Texas Land Trust Council website, they list all the partners, all the Land Trusts are listed there, all the attorneys that do conservation easements are listed.  That's the first place I send them.  Sometimes if I have an opportunity that I think there's a good match, I will recommend a Land Trust that they might contact just to find out more information; but I also know that they target properties that they're aware of. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Uh-huh.  It might be interesting to get one of these Land Trusts in.  I mean, you have to figure out, you know, equal treatment of them; but get them and have us -- have them walk through how they view these properties, how it comes to them.  Just what -- how do you -- how do you make the sausage, so to speak, because it's -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Mr. Chairman, that's a great idea.  And so as you know, this is our -- this is our application year.  But next year, we will not have an application process.  That would be a great agenda item.  I'm sure we can get lots of Land Trust representatives to come and bend your ear and show you exactly how they make that sausage. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah.  And if they all need to present, then, you know, we can give them ten minutes apiece or something. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Sure. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And does this meeting occur once a year? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Statutorily we're required to meet once a year.  We typically try to have it in the fall.  In the past, the Council has wanted to make sure that we had our appropriation in place, the contract process.  From once we get the awarded grantees, then my next step -- my next job is I create all 15 or all -- however many contracts we award, I create all those contracts and we give (inaudible) grant contract process. 

Okay.  Mi Vida Ranch, 144 acres in Llano County.  The Nature Conservancy is the Land Trust here. 

They requested $490,000 from us, $25,000 cash match, and a cost of $866 per acre for a market value of 2.2 million.  Also out near San Antonio and Austin. 

Actually this one is adjacent to Enchanted Rock State Natural Area. 

My clicker is not being as responsive. 

The Muckleroy Ranch, also Hill Country Conservancy made -- that's why those guys are here. 

They made a strong showing in their applications.  They want to see where they fall out.  So 240 acres in Llano County, Hill Country Conservancy is the Land Trust, 1 million and change request from us, 1.1 million in cash match from the landowner, and $100,000 BLIP grant, with $5,000 from the Texas Land Trust Council.  Kind of expensive, $4,200 per acre.  Market value of 2.16 million.  Like I said, it's adjacent to Enchanted Rock State Natural Area. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Chris, I have a quick question. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  And I apologize if I'm jumping ahead here. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  That's okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Tell me to be patient if I need to do that.  The projects -- obviously, this Council's funds are limited.  The projects that do not get funded by this Council, do those typically move forward regardless?  Are there -- I mean, I know there's a whole lot of different matching funds.  I'm just curious, you know. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  In my experience, they do not move forward. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay.  Will they wait until the next round and try to get funding at that point? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So like Ms. Burr's program, they set program.  We are two separate programs.  We don't run 100 percent concurrently, but we have enough of an overlap that the Land Trusts can request funds from my program, as well as the NRCS program.  If they miss -- if they don't get funded by me or from the NRCS, they typically miss those windows and they come back the following time. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So we have seen repeat applicants. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, thank you. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  But it's a great question, George. 

So the State of Texas, all the property that's put into land trust on an annual basis, let's call it, would you say that Texas Farm and Ranch Land Council is involved in every one of those conservation easements that's placed -- if an easement's being placed, are we a participant in it? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I'd say just off a rough guess, Mr. Chairman, we're probably less than 20 percent.  There's a lot of protected lands that we have no role in. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Is that right?  So there's 80 full -- just qualitatively -- 80 percent of the conservation easements that are placed, placed into effect on an annual basis, we're not participating in? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  No, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So only a small -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  So the -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So those funding sources come from where?  Private donations? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Private donations.  They can apply to the NRCS and not apply to us. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Landowner donations sometimes. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Landowner -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Some people just want to come in and donate an easement. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yeah.  Some Land Trusts are very successful in finding landowners that are capable of giving a full donation.  So then really all they need -- and if they do come from my program, they just need some due diligence from me.  They need to be able to pay for the baseline survey and the appraisal and things like that.  There's no closing costs on our part.  There's nothing.  We just help them manage the project, required funding to manage the project. 

But others that have a large contribution, that's where we really have to sharpen our pencils and see what we can do and sometimes we just can't afford it. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, great. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Sorry, just one kind of follow on. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Do you have an idea -- and maybe you mentioned this earlier -- about the total amount of acreage on an annual basis that goes into conservation easements? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  For this program, sir? 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Not just for this program, but kind of statewide. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Actually I think the best person to answer that is your neighbor right to your right, Dr. Roel Lopez with the NR -- Natural Resources. 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  I don't know that number.  Thanks, Chris. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  You're better off than I am, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  The Land Trust Council should have. 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  Lori Olson would be the person I'd ask.  I don't know that number offhand. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  And American Farmland Trust.  They recently published -- use Google, American Farmland Trust.  They have tons of data, public.  But, you know, that's going to vary annually, just like the costs vary -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Sure. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  -- just like the sign-ups vary. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Sure.  Economic reasons too I'm sure year to year.  It just -- I think it speaks to the State's ability to conserve land just knowing that -- that -- what that number is.  I know we're playing an important role here in this Council, but also just understanding Texas -- Texan's affinity to put land in conservation. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  The one thing -- if I may, Mr. Chairman. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah. 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  The one thing with the program that really put Texas I think on the right trajectory is the fact that other states have a pretty aggressive land conservation program and so Texas, prior to the passing of this program, really didn't have that state match that could be used with NRCS or UAU funds and so forth.  And so the -- we finally got into the 
game with the passing of this program. 

And through time, it's been more and more aggressive in terms of its application.  But the spirit -- and I appreciate the Chairman's reminder that it's a focus on working lands and waters, the other piece when we look at the -- the -- enabling legislation.  Those are the two primary drivers for this program. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Good. 

Any other questions? 

Leslie? 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  This is out of order, but forgive me.  I might forget.  Would you please make a note to provide to us perhaps by e-mail as follow-up to this meeting both the enabling legislation and that criteria scoresheet so that we can have them readily assessable to -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, ma'am. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  -- better do our job. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We can definitely do that. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Thank you. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And while we're giving you homework -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Sorry. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- would you -- would you provide some -- the question that George asked, how much acreage is placed into conservation easements on an annual basis in Texas?  How much do we participate on a percentage basis?  Those would be really good kind of facts for us to get up to the learning curve on this. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  You're writing my agenda for next year, sir, right now. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Well, we would like it before then. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Okay.  I can do that, but we will present it to you in a more graphic fashion next year; but we definitely can provide all of that to the Council. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Great, thank you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Because I think that would tie in well to the -- to the -- what we discussed about a Land Trust kind of describing the process, I think that would tie in really well. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Look, this is a fantastic program that everyone is excited about.  And so just how do we bolster it and grow it and make it better is -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- just what we're trying to do.  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  This is the Muckleroy Ranch.  Y'all probably have seen that mountain before, Enchanted Rock, it's directly across the road. 

The Cobb Ranch, 302 acres in Bell County, also from the Texas Ag Land Trust.  They're asking 165,000 from us, 640,000 from the NRCS, and about $540,000 in a cash match.  Total cost of $546 per acre with $1.2 million value.  And then we're near Killeen and Temple. 

This is the Herrera Devils Bend Ranch. 

This was the smallest application we had.  This is actually -- I think it's on the San Antonio River, 51 acres in Bexar County.  Bexar Land Trust, also known as Green Spaces Alliance is the Land Trust and they asked for $300,000 from the program, with a cash match of $196,000, 6,000 from -- they donated their own Green Spaces money, and $5,000 from the Texas Land Trust Council for a total cost -- again, very expensive -- five -- almost $6,000 per acre. 

And just to kind of describe, Mr. Chairman, I mean, you know, we have -- we definitely understand we have a requirement to be judicious with state funds.  When you see numbers like five, $6,000 per acre, we definitely have to take a hard look at those. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  It's just amazing how many various Land Trusts there are.  Bexar Land Trust. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I believe there's 35 across the state, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  How many? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  There's 35. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Thirty-five, wow. 

Interesting.  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  This is just southeast of -- I'm sorry, southwest of San Antonio.  It kind of looks like a park.  They're treating it a bit like a park.  It's privately owned.  It's been in a single family for a very long time.  If I remember correctly, this is very long-term ownership by this family.  But it's really not functional for grazing or anything else like that. 

Okay.  This is the J3 Land LLC, 95 acres in Bell County.  Also another Texas Ag Land Trust property.  $100,000 request from us, 187,000 from NRCS, cash match of 87,500, and 50,000 private funding, cost per acre just a little over a thousand dollars.  Market value 375,000.  This little property is just kind of out by itself out in south Temple. 

Okay.  That is all the properties.  If you take some questions or move on to the award selection process. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Any questions? 

Mr. Abernathy. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And I believe do we have just from a protocol standpoint, do we have speakers lined up to speak?  I know there's a public comment session, but it appears as though we've got two different speaking areas.  Speaking relative to these selections, do we know? 

MS. HALLIBURTON:  No, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Do not?  Okay, great.  Thanks. 

Okay.  So any other comments from the Council or staff? 

I guess you are going -- yeah, go through selection criteria -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Sure. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- and then we'll vote on this. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We're getting close.  So some of the questions that y'all asked earlier, hopefully we can cover those in this section. You -- you -- a lot of curiosity about our review team.  So this is what happened this year in July.  I brought together the same representatives.  I try to bring them together as often as I can so we have a lot of continuity.  A lot of high-ranking guys here. 

Program Director of Private Lands Kevin Mote; Jason Estrella; my manager, Branch Manager Land Conservation Program; Tim Birdsong, Inland Fishing -- Fisheries acting Division Director -- really knowledgeable guy -- Greg Creacy, Natural Resources Director; little old me, 

I'm the Program Coordinator for the program; and Dr. Ortega-Sanchez.  His name is -- he goes by Pancho.  His name is Alfonso Ortega-Sanchez.  He is the Agricultural Industry Rep. 

And Mr. Isom, about four years ago, said we think it would be a good idea to have somebody external to TPWD see these properties and help rank them and so we brought on a gentleman.  He volunteered.  His name was Jay Evans.  He served with us for two funding cycles, so basically four years.  But he said, you know, it was enough and so we put out kind of a search. Jason actually knows Dr. Sanchez and so he agreed to come and be our representative and so he sat with us, looked at all -- we sat in this room right here and we looked at every single property and we discussed every property. 

We created a matrix, a point matrix, and then each of the representatives send their information to me and then I compile all of the points and then average them out. 

Okay.  So this -- here's -- again, here's the criteria that you're asking about, just the value. 

So threat of development has the highest in the point system that we award and then kind of the economics, you know, can -- is it a good -- is it a good price for our money?  The watershed value is also the same.  Fish and wildlife, 15 points.  Contribution to the conservation landscape for ten points, and then the terms of the conservation easement is five. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Mr. Abernathy, the question I had though was if I recall, there was a fairly long scoresheet that broke down within those broad categories. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, ma'am.  There are. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  That's what would help us. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We can definitely get that to you. 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  Leslie, if I could suggest -- Chris, not to add to your homework list -- but one thing that may be helpful to the Council members is maybe a sample, a packet.  I know the Land Trusts do a really good job in basically making the case or telling the story and so that maybe helpful in seeing how this criteria sort of operates in line because it's more than just a bullet.  It's a paragraph or maps and data that is tied to that bullet.  That helps them make that criteria, so. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Mr. Chairman, the application packets can be 60, 70, a hundred pages long. 

They do a really in-depth description of the habitat that they're protecting, what the property is, what the long-term goal is, you know, they do -- Dr. Lopez is right. 

It's a lot.  I try not to burden the Council, but I am happy to get you guys as much information as you would like to have.  I can definitely include a good -- or two -- one or two examples of an application packet.  We can even do that next time we have a process like this, we can include that in the notebooks so you guys can see what those look like.  We can get those to you beforehand. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, that would be great.  Look, we have no doubt that you guys are doing good work and good analytical scoring and you've got a lot of professionals doing this.  So that's not the issue.  We're just trying to understand for us before we vote on it and -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- make decisions. 

So we -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- all -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I do understand.  It's a lot of -- it's a lot of information that we do receive. 

I try to kind of filter it down as best I can for y'all. 

So here are the rankings.  So out of the selection team that you just saw, this is how the numbers broke out.  And you saw earlier there's 15 projects and I had mentioned also earlier that we have about a $1.8 million cap.  I can go to -- I can actually go to 1.820 max without interfering with my operational costs and budget and things like that.  And so we are recommending -- and I'll go to the next slide here -- but these first nine -- eight projects are the ones that we are recommending for funding.  We went straight down the line based on the rankings. 

Is there questions about any of the information on the spreadsheet? 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So you can spend you said $1.8 million? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  That's what you've got available in -- with the biennium fund and -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay.  And green equals 1.8? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Green means go.  Yes, sir.  Red means funded. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  It's greater than 1.8. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Well, actually like I -- I have -- I have -- my accounting manager with Infrastructure says you can go to 1,820,000 total. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Great. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And we did some -- you know, I moved some money around, called a couple of people, and we got to 1.815 and I was -- I like, you know -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Cut it off. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  -- stood right there. 

I'm probably not a good gambler, but that's where I stood. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Nice metric. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  That's great.  And of the $1.8 million, you may have a slide here, but how much are we leveraging that 1.8 against national programs and/or private donations? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  On this particular slide, I do not have the private.  I have the NRCS funding where you can see adjacent to it.  So just say the first one John Knox Ranch, 250 -- roughly $250,000, NRCS is contributing $900,000. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Got it.  But there will be quite a bit of private donation as well. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  I was trying to focus this particular slide just on the awards.  We can go all the way back to the original one if you want. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  That's fine.  I'm just trying to figure out how much -- I mean, because the goal is obviously to leverage our money as much as possible to incent other agencies or private donations to -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Right.  And if you remember, that's where we got that nine-to-one.  Right now, we're kind of averaging about a nine -- again, conservation value-wise, about $9 of conservation value for every dollar spent. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Sure.  Okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Chris, can I make a comment? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, ma'am. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  And I would say I'm looking at this list.  NRCS provided federal funding for either 12 or 13 of them. 

Frank, one of yours, I'm not sure because I don't really recognize that one name.  I'm pretty sure that was an NRCS funded one as well. 

And there's actually some of the NRCS contributions that are not listed here.  So I'm sure the entity didn't provide it.  So just in entity applications alone, there's multiple programs at the federal level, we funded 23 and 30 million go just to the ag lands.  So that's a little bit of perspective. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  In the State of Texas? 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Oh, yeah.  That's in -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  -- the State of Texas. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  And that's not -- you know, the wetlands we contracted about 12 million. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, good.  But you'll obviously fund programs that we don't have the money to do so. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  Yes. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay, all right. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yes. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Like Thrasher -- 

Thrasher Leon River Ranch, you're funding and we just don't have the ability I assume. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  There's several in that bottom.  There's five in the bottom list that -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  -- NRCS is working through the contracting process.  We have three left to obligate, which is stressful, you know. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  And from a process perspective, so this process is -- this is biennial funds, right?  1.8 -- the 1.8 million is biennium? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  So this will be the last that we'll meet again.  We'll meet next year, but we won't award funds again -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  That's correct. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  -- until two years from now.  Okay.  Is NRCS, is that not a similar thing or is that an annual -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  We have to fund annually.  Our funds are -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, annual. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  -- mandated annually. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  Okay, okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER BURR:  We just lucked into a really large sum of money this year and hope to continue that. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And, Mr. Chairman, all of the grant agreements that we will write for these eight properties will terminate August 30th of 2025, when the biennium ends and so then we'll start the process again. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Understand. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Are we ready? 

So here's kind of the summary, kind of some of the questions y'all, I think, were asking.  The total -- so if we -- if you approve this request today, we will be able to protect an additional 3,800 acres. 

We'll spend -- well, we'll spend the 1.85 million and out of that, we'll get a market value of 16 million -- 

$16 million, coverage cost per acre $972, total federal funding of $8.5 million, and total matching funds of $7 million.  So we're still doing pretty well.  For our 1.8 million, we're getting $15 million. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So there's the leverage. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  There's the ten -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah. 

COUNCIL MEMBER PEYTON:  It's like ten-to-one. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  That's fantastic. 

That's great. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  This is your motion, 

Mr. Chairman:  We move that Council award the funds to the eight applications recommended by staff and that funding be applied to other projects in order of priority should funding become available. 

We added this last section, I guess, a couple of years ago.  It is possible that we could get through this entire process and a Land Trust can call me tomorrow and say, "You know what?  The John Knox guy, he just doesn't want to do it," right?  So I've got that -- those funds committed.  So what we basically do is we just go to the next one. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Go to the next one. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We fund what we can continue to fund until we've spent all the money. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So we would just drop down in your ranking?  Your Thrasher Leon I -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- guess was ranked nine, so -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir.  If John Knox pulled, then Thrasher Leon would get funded. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  One question, 

Mr. Chairman.  May I? 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yes, sir.  Yeah. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  What happens in the event that NRCS has already fully funded Thrasher?  Do you just go down to the next? 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We just keep going down until we find the need. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  You find someone that needs it. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yeah. 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  Okay. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  This -- this is one of my biggest concerns about this program is, we made a significant request for more money to the Legislature. 

We have to demonstrate we can continue to meet the needs with what we have.  I cannot leave any money unspent. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Or we won't get it again. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We won't -- yeah.  I mean, we may just not get it again if we can't demonstrate a need.  So I make sure that every penny is spent that we can. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Well, let's spend it obviously prudently and good stewards -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- of that money, not just spend the money because we have the budget. 

But I know -- I know the -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  No.  Everything would be a -- would be a viable application that had been vetted by the team and had been ranked.  We would never go -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, yes. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  -- outside of that. 

Mr. Chairman, I need a motion. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Okay.  Before we do that, Council members or staff, any questions, concerns, further detail? 

Well, look, thanks, Mr. Abernathy.  We appreciate it and I think you'll see hopefully -- I'm not sure -- well, I'll be here next year.  So but we try to have an open Council.  We're inquisitive.  We want to know the facts.  So -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I appreciate the discourse, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- provide the data to us that we've asked on a follow-up, not next year; but in some period of time -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Yes, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- just to help us get our brain around this and, you know, be advocates for the program.  I mean, that's what we need to be is advocates for the program. 

So, all right, with that, do I have a motion for approval? 

COUNCIL MEMBER ISOM:  So moved. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Second? 

COUNCIL MEMBER LOPEZ:  (Indicates a motion for second). 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  All in favor please say aye. 

(Chorus of ayes) 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Any opposed? 

Hearing none, the motion carries. 

Thank you guys very much. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Sure. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  And thank you, 

Mr. Abernathy.  Good -- good presentation.  Appreciate it. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I would like to stress one more time.  We really need other Council member. The Governor's Office is aware of our need.  They are having a very difficult time finding applicants for this particular Council.  I don't really know why, but we haven't had a successful applicant since Mr. Scott left. 

If y'all know anybody -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  I do. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And Leslie, she and I have already spoken a little bit.  But, again, I just -- we really would like to have another Council member. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Is there a particular category?  I know, you know -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  He's considered what's called an agriculture representative, which means he typically belongs to something like -- I don't know. 

Give me an example. 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Dairy farmer. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yeah. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Dairy farmer.  But like an organization typically -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yeah, and the appointments all -- 

(Simultaneous speaking) 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Farm Bureau. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Yeah, Farm 

Bureau, Texas Cattle Raisers, they look for -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Got it. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  That's where they pull from at the appointment's office for this. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  So you guys -- I mean, we know lots of folks around this table.  So remember this, let's go find a good Council member that can add value to the process, so. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I would mention the one criteria that the Governor's Office likes is that they have to be a friend of the Governor, so to speak.  If you catch my drift. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  Right. 

That is -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  They what? 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  They have to -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Be a friend of the Governor, so to speak. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Oh, I understand. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  Mr. Chairman, 

I'll take that request back to Commission Miller; but I'm not sure I can guarantee all of the criteria for that. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  Well, the Governor's Office is really good about doing their own vetting. 

COUNCIL MEMBER COBB KOEHLER:  They vet you. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  We had an applicant once and when I submitted that applicant, they called me back and said, "Have you looked at their Facebook page?" 

And I was like, "No."  So I went to their Facebook page and it was clear that she probably wasn't going to be a good representative. 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  I'm sure 

Commissioner Miller would like to help you fill that seat. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  And Mr. Miller -- Mr. Miller, I'm sure he's a friend of Governor.  He probably knows lots of people that are friends of the Governor, so. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Well -- 

COUNCIL MEMBER MALDONADO:  It's possible. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  -- a lot people don't want to fill out the financial -- financial report and things of that sort.  So but this is all predicated on good private involvement in the state, any state board, so. 

All right.  I think -- Dee, you can tell me.  Do we have anyone that's signed up to speak? 

MS. HALLIBURTON:  No, sir. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  No?  Okay. 

Well, that's all the business we have today.  Any other comments/questions from the Council? 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  Mr. Abernathy, we don't -- I would like to say that we don't mind you burdening us.  It enables us to do our job better.  It's what we volunteered to do.  However, I appreciate and honor your ownership of this program and dedication. 

It's a great job.  Thank you for all your time.  You do a great job. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I talk too fast and -- 

(Round of applause) 

COUNCIL MEMBER KINSEL:  No, you did great.  And you keep us informed. 

MR. ABERNATHY:  I love this program too. 

They picked the worst speaker to fill the job, but I'd rather sit down at a table with y'all and just visit -- 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, I know. 

Just -- 

MR. ABERNATHY:  -- than do this. 

CHAIRMAN HILDEBRAND:  Yeah, just execute well on this and that's all we need. 

Okay, good.  Look, thank you guys very much for showing up today.  I appreciate it.  It takes time and energy and effort, but appreciate it.  It's for the great State of Texas.  So thank you. 

So with that, the Council has completed its business and I declare this meeting adjourned at 

11:24. 

(Meeting Adjourns) 

In official recognition of the adoption of this resolution in a lawfully called public meeting of the Texas Farm and Ranch Lands Conservation Council, we hereby affix our signatures this _______ day of ___________________, __________. 


 _____________________________________ 
 Jeffery Hildebrand, Chairman 

 _____________________________________ 
 Clint Burgess, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Abby Frank, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Rex Isom, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Leslie Kinsel, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Natalie Cobb Koehler, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Brook Paup, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Roel Lopez, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Sid Miller, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Kristy Oates, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Gilbert Riojas, Member 

 _____________________________________ 
 Romey Swanson, Member 

C E R T I F I C A T E 

STATE OF TEXAS   ) 

COUNTY OF TRAVIS ) 

I, Paige S. Watts, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above-mentioned matter occurred as hereinbefore set out. 

I FURTHER CERTIFY THAT the proceedings of such were reported by me or under my supervision, later reduced to typewritten form under my supervision and control and that the foregoing pages are a full, true, and correct transcription of the original notes. 

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and seal this Turn in date _____ day of ________________, ________. 

  ___________________________________ 

  Paige S. Watts, CSR 
  CSR No.: 8311 
  Expiration: January 31, 2025