Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing
June 1, 2000
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
10 BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the 1st day of June,
11 2000, there came on to be heard matters under the regulatory
12 authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission of Texas, in
13 the Commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
14 Headquarters Complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas, beginning
15 at 9:25 a.m., to wit:
16
17 APPEARANCES:
18 THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
19
20 Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas, Chairman
21 John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
22 Nolan Ryan, Alvin, Texas
23 Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
24 Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas, Vice Chair
25 Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 Katharine Armstrong Idsal, Dallas, Texas
2 Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
3
4 THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT:
5
6 Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director and
7 Other Personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 OTHER APPEARANCES:
2 Mr. David K. Langford, representing Texas Wildlife Assoc.
3 Mr. Ellis Gilleland, representing Texas Animals on the
Internet
4
Mr. Kevin Daniels, representing Coastal Conservation
5 Association
6 Mr. Chris Thompson
7 Mr. Lee Roy Billington, representing IBC Petroleum, Inc.
8 Mr. David A. Guidry, representing Local Fisherman
9 Mr. Jack North
10 Mr. Troy Williamson
11 Mr. Jim Atkins
12 Mr. Jim Smarr, representing Recreational Fishing Alliance
13 Mr. Asa Yeamans, representing Breveport Association
14 Mr. Spencer Collins
15 Mr. Will Myers
16 Dr. James C. Kroll, representing Texas Deer Association
17 Mr. Don B. Frels, representing Texas Wildlife Management
Control
18
Mr. John Jefferson
19
Mr. Pix Howell, representing Williamson County
20
Mr. Bob Wunsch, representing Avery Ranch
21
Mr. Greg Boatright, representing Williamson County
22
Ms. Sally Gavlik, representing County of El Paso
23
Mr. Charles W. Nutter, representing City of El Paso Parks
24 Recreation
25 Mr. Javier Mendez, representing Cameron County Parks
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 JUNE 1, 2000
2 * * * * *
3 PUBLIC HEARING
4 * * * * *
5 (9:25 a.m.)
6 * * * * *
7 MR. BASS: Good morning, ladies and
8 gentlemen. I would like to call the meeting to order, and
9 ask Mr. Sansom to please read our opening statement.
10 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman and members of the
11 Commission, a public notice of this meeting containing all
12 items on the proposed agenda has been filed in the Office of
13 Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of the
14 Government Code. This is referred to as the Open Meetings
15 Law, and I would like for this action to be put in the
16 official record of the meeting.
17 Ladies and gentlemen, we welcome all of you here
18 this morning. I appreciate the fact that you're here, as
19 does ever every member of the Commission. And we look
20 forward to hearing your comments and having you participate
21 in our meeting.
22 As all of you know, I will sort of be assisting the
23 Chair as kind of Sergeant at Arms. And I wanted to make sure
24 that everyone who has a desire to speak today has filled out
25 one of the sign-up cards. The Chairman will use the card to
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 call you forward, and each person will be allowed to speak
2 from this podium.
3 When your name is called, please come to the podium,
4 state your name and who you represent, if anyone other than
5 yourself.
6 The chairman may also call the next person in line
7 so that you can sort of be on deck. And if you'll just come
8 to the back of the room, that will move the meeting along.
9 Everyone who would like to speak will have three
10 minutes. I'll keep track of the time with this little
11 traffic light here. And when the light turns yellow, that
12 means you've got about 30 seconds. So I appreciate you
13 adhering to that.
14 When your time is up, please resume your seat so
15 that others can speak. Your time may be extended if the
16 Commissioner asks you question or they discuss things among
17 themselves. That will not count against your three minutes.
18 As always, I will ask you please to refrain from any
19 argumentative or critical comments and show proper respect
20 not only for our Board and our staff, but for other members
21 of the audience.
22 I would like to once again welcome you here and tell
23 you how much we appreciate you participating in our meetings.
24 If you have things you would like to give to the Commission,
25 please give them to Ms. Estrada here, and she will make sure
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 that they're passed out. Thank you very much.
2 MR. BASS: Thank you, Mr. Sansom. The first
3 order of business would be the approval of the minutes from
4 our previous meeting, which have been distributed. And the
5 Chair would entertain a motion or any corrections or
6 deletions.
7 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, I just
8 wanted to point out on Page 95, Line 25, "Trust for Public
9 Lands," that it be capitalized, since it's an organization
10 that has helped a great deal with Government Canyon.
11 And I also want to commend our court reporters for
12 the great job they do with these transcripts. And with that,
13 I would move for approval of the minutes.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Do I have a motion?
15 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: And a second. All in favor?
17 Opposed? Thank you.
18 (Motion carries unanimously.)
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Second order of business would
20 be acceptance of gifts, which have been listed and -- to
21 which has been distributed for review.
22 The Chair would entertain any comments, questions or
23 a motion.
24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval.
25 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Second.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Motion for approval by
2 Mr. Angelo, a second by Commissioner Dinkins. All in favor?
3 Any opposed? Moved. Thank you very much.
4 (Motion carries unanimously.)
5 * * * * *
6 DONOR DESCRIPTION
7 1) Lone Star Steel 600 feet 4" pipe
PURPOSE OF DONATION: White Oak Creek WMA
8
2) El Eddon Verde Garden Club 6 Cypress and 6 fruit trees
9 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Grounds improvement
10 3) Quail Unlimited - Cross Timbers Chapter CASH
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Match NFWF Challenge Grant
11
4) City Center Security Exercise Equipment
12 PURPOSE OF DONATION: TPWD employee fitness program
13 5) Travis Audubon Society CASH
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Wildlife Diversity Program
14
6) Exxon/Mobil CASH
15 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Wildlife Diversity Program
16 7) Houston Audubon Society CASH
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Wildlife Diversity Program
17
8) Temple-Inland Forest CASH
18 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Wildlife Diversity Program
19 9) North American Bat Conservation CASH
Partnership/Bat Conservation International
20 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Wildlife Diversity Program, Bat
Program
21
10) Reliance Products Tackle Boxes
22 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Incentive program
23 11) Quahadi Society Binoculars
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Support stargazing programs
24
12) Quahadi Society Binoculars
25 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Support stargazing programs
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 13) Friends of Kerrville-Schreiner Family Recreation Area
State Park
2 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Visitor experience enhancement
3 14) The 100 Club Navigational Radar
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Officer Safety, enforcement tool
4
15) H.E. Butt Grocery Company CASH
5 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Event donation
6 16) City of Texas City CASH
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Great Texas Birding Classic
7
17) Brownsville Convention and Visitors Bureau CASH
8 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Great Texas Birding Classic
9 18) Travis Audubon Society CASH
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Great Texas Birding Classic
10
19) Silencio/Safety Direct, Inc. Hearing and eye protection
11 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Incentive awards
12 20) Winchester Ammunition Hunter education equipment
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Incentive awards
13
21) Daniel Schaefer Thompson submachine gun
14 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Admiral Nimitz Museum SHP
15 22) Admiral Minitz Foundation Japanese Vice Admiral tunic
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Admiral Nimitz Museum SHP
16
23) J. Steven Hoerster Ford Jeep (1942)
17 PURPOSE OF DONATION: Admiral Nimitz Museum SHP
18 24) Kenny W. Dezendorf 1985 GMC Suburban
PURPOSE OF DONATION: Texas Youth Hunting Program
19 TOTAL: $176,129.00
20 * * * * *
21 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, today, the Governor
22 of our State has made a major announcement out in the State
23 of Utah. And among the things that he will say in his speech
24 is that he will recommend the creation of a national Lone
25 Star Land Steward's award for the recognition of private land
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
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1 owners who have performed exemplary conservation on their
2 properties.
3 Many of us had the great pleasure on Tuesday evening
4 of recognizing this year's Texas Lone Star Land Stewards upon
5 which the Governor's national initiative is based.
6 And at this time I would like for those of us who
7 were not able to attend to share in a brief video clip that
8 tells us about the wonderful work done at the Shields Ranch,
9 this year's winner of the Lone Star Land Steward's awards.
10 (Whereupon, a video clip was played.)
11 MR. SANSOM: This was the fifth annual Lone
12 Star Land Steward's award, and I know that every one of us
13 who was there shared the unique feeling that this event
14 has -- has taken on. And it is clearly one of the most
15 important events of our year, because it recognizes the
16 people who are really doing the job out there on the
17 landscape to protect it for the future.
18 At the same time, on Tuesday night, while we were at
19 the University of the Texas Alumni Center, on the Nashville
20 network, the program, "Wonders of Wildlife Honors" was shown
21 across the country.
22 This was a very unique and first-time concert, the
23 ticket sales from which are given to conservation
24 organizations throughout the country, including Ducks
25 Unlimited, Rocky Mountain Elk, National Wild Turkey and many,
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 many others.
2 One of the highlights of the program, which was
3 hosted by a number of very famous country and western
4 singers, including Kenny Rogers, Travis Tritt and many
5 others, was the recognition of three national winners,
6 conservationist winners.
7 They were recognized as "The Outdoors Man," "The
8 Outdoors Youth," and "The Outdoors Woman" of the year in the
9 United States. They were Kenneth Oden, who is the founder of
10 the Great Outdoors Conservancy, a young man who founded the
11 4-H Castaways Junior Bass Club, 13-year-old Shelby Bowling,
12 and the Vice Chair of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
13 Commission, Carol Dinkins.
14 So please join me in a little clip from "Wonders of
15 Wildlife Honors," Nashville, Tennessee.
16 (Whereupon, a video clip was played.)
17 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you.
18 MR. SANSOM: Carol, we congratulate you. And
19 see how strongly we all feel about the support you've given
20 conservation.
21 But I will also say as a part of the ceremonies,
22 Carol was given a check for $10,000, which she could
23 designate for any cause of her choice, and she has designated
24 that to the Lone Star Legacy. So thank you for that, as
25 well, Carol.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 At this time, members, it is my great privilege and
2 pleasure to recognize employees of our department who have
3 served us and the people of Texas so well over many years.
4 The first, from Brownwood, Texas, is James Connally.
5 James started his career with the Department in May of 1975.
6 He's worked in Seabrook. He's worked in Aransas Pass and San
7 Patricio County, and he was right in the middle of the net
8 bands along the coast.
9 He's been involved in the shrimping and changing
10 laws and issues related to shrimping and commercial fishing
11 on red fish and trout.
12 He was nominated for officer of the year by the
13 Coastal Conservation Association, and recently was -- at the
14 early part of this decade was promoted to lieutenant in
15 Brownwood, where he serves today as the -- as a game warden
16 with 25 years of service to Texas Parks and Wildlife.
17 Please recognize James Connally from Brownwood,
18 Texas.
19 (Photographs were then
20 taken; applause.)
21 MR. SANSOM: Many of us have had the pleasure
22 of riding on the Texas State Railroad, which is probably the
23 most complex maintenance challenge in the Texas Parks and
24 Wildlife system.
25 Roger Graham began working there as a seasonal in
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 1975. It's during this time that Governor Brisco attended
2 the opening of the park, and Roger was the third full-time
3 employee at the railroad.
4 In 1978, he became the engineer, and he's been
5 involved in as many as 12 movies, commercials including,
6 "Uphill All The Way" with Roy Clark and Mel Tillis, "The
7 Streets of Laredo" with James Garner and Sissy Spacek, and
8 "The Rough Riders" with Sam Elliott.
9 He and his colleagues keep that engine running,
10 because as many as 70,000 people a year ride it. So please
11 welcome Roger D. Graham from State Parks with 25 years of
12 service.
13 (Photographs were then
14 taken; applause.)
15 MR. SANSOM: He took us Big Bend.
16 Also from State Parks, Tim Hufstedler started out at
17 L.B.J.
18 In September of 1975, he was promoted to Ranger and
19 then transferred quickly to San Jacinto.
20 In '76, he was made the assistant manager at San
21 Jacinto. In 1977, he became the park manager.
22 During that time, he was graduated from the police
23 academy and was commissioned as a state park peace officer.
24 In 1981, he was again promoted and transferred to
25 his current position as park manager at Kerrville-Schreiner
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 State Park.
2 Please recognize Tim Hufstedler with 25 years of
3 service in state parks.
4 (Photographs were then
5 taken; applause.)
6 MR. SANSOM: A couple of the people we're
7 recognizing today played extremely important roles in boating
8 and water safety, which will be increasingly, this summer, an
9 issue on all of our minds.
10 Ernie Lerma is a leader in this area. He is a game
11 warden from Rio Medina, Texas. He started out in
12 Brownsville, and he attended the 32nd Game Warden Academy, at
13 that time at Texas A&M. He's worked at High Island in
14 Galveston County, and he's worked in Corpus. And he
15 transferred to Medina in 1984.
16 In 1981, Ernie was awarded the Game Warden of the
17 Year award by CCA. He was awarded the Citizen of the Year
18 award by the Chamber of Commerce in Castroville, due to his
19 work with Boy Scouts and youth in the community.
20 This year, Ernie was recognized as the Officer of
21 the Year for the State of Texas by the Southern States
22 Boating Law Administrator. And he has participated in
23 numerous personal water craft, swift water rescue schools and
24 instructed a number of Game Warden Academny classes in water
25 safety and swift water rescue.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 Please welcome Ernest L. Lerma, Game Warden 5, Rio
2 Medina, Texas, with 25 years of service.
3 (Photographs were then
4 taken; applause.)
5 MR. SANSOM: Another warden who has been
6 extremely involved in water safety over the years is Ewel
7 McCrary. We call him Mokey.
8 Mokey has worked in the Department for 25 years.
9 Today, he is in Kerrville. He started out in Amarillo, where
10 he worked for 13-and-a-half years.
11 He came to Austin to work at the Academy, which is
12 where I first met him. He automated the grading system and
13 launched the training program for standardized field sobriety
14 tests.
15 He oversaw the instruction for the game wardens and
16 park peace officers. He's been a captain at the District
17 supervisor level in Lubbock and is currently the captain in
18 the Kerrville District office.
19 He received -- he has received numerous citations,
20 particularly for saving a woman from drowning while he was a
21 supervisor. And he has established, along with Ernie and
22 others, a swift water rescue team that is second to none
23 within this state.
24 Please recognize from Kerrville with 25 years of
25 service, Game Warden Mokey McCrary.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 (Photographs were then
2 taken; applause.)
3 MR. SANSOM: Mary Gluck also worked at the
4 railroad. She's been there for 20 years. She started as a
5 seasonal in the maintenance complex. She's worked her way up
6 as a clerk. She transferred to the headquarters and is now
7 an administration -- an administrative technician.
8 She loves the railroad and says it's a great place
9 to work. And like others who have worked there, she's had
10 the great privilege of meeting and working with people like
11 Jean Stapleton, Roy Clark, James Garner and many other people
12 from the entertainment world.
13 Please recognize Mary Gluck from the Texas State
14 Railroad with 20 years of service.
15 (Photographs were then
16 taken; applause.)
17 MR. SANSOM: Last August, we had to -- we
18 participated, as we do each year at that time, in the
19 Employee Recognition Awards program. And one of the teams
20 that was recognized was from the Rockport maintenance shop.
21 Joel Hearn, who we recognize today from Coastal
22 Fisheries, has worked in the division at Rockport for 20
23 years. He is currently a fish and wildlife technician and
24 serves as a team leader, which received recognition last
25 year.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 His knowledge of Coastal Fisheries facilities,
2 equipment, sampling operations and many other things has made
3 him an invaluable member in maintaining and repairing the
4 division's coastal-wide fleet of boats, motors, trailers and
5 vehicles.
6 He has been instrumental in several projects,
7 including the fabrication of the aquarium displays on fishing
8 piers at Sea Center, the completion of the retrofits on all
9 our 45-foot research vessels, and the construction of the
10 division's mobile aquariums, which are used at Expo and
11 throughout the State.
12 Please welcome Jowell Hearn from Coastal Fisheries
13 with 20 years of service.
14 (Photographs were then
15 taken; applause.)
16 MR. SANSOM: Also from Coastal Fisheries is
17 Jerry Mambretti. He began work in 1980 as a technician at
18 the Rockport Marine Laboratory.
19 Jerry has steadily progressed in responsibility to
20 his current position as the Sabine Lake Ecosystem leader,
21 where he's responsible for orchestrating all programs,
22 activities and personnel at the Port Arthur field station.
23 Jerry has been an advocate for the marine
24 conservation issues in southeast Texas, a tireless advocate.
25 He's a member of the Gulf States Fishery Management
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 Commission's Menhaden Advisory committee. He represents the
2 Department and the natural resources of the State on the East
3 Texas Regional Water Planning Group, and he serves on Coast
4 Fisheries Quality Control Committee.
5 He's also a veteran of seven consecutive expo's.
6 Jerry Mambretti from Port Arthur with 25 years of service to
7 Coastal Fisheries.
8 (Photographs were then
9 taken; applause.)
10 MR. SANSOM: Again from Coastal Fisheries, Art
11 Morris. Art also went to work in 1980 as a motor vehicle
12 mechanic.
13 He transferred to the Corpus Christi field station
14 and was one of three individuals there to be promoted to
15 technician through the career ladder that was established in
16 the early part of this decade.
17 Art made the special commitment of going to night
18 school through our Department's educational leave policy, and
19 he earned a Bachelor of Science in biology from Texas A&M
20 University.
21 After that, he was promoted to a fishery outreach
22 specialist, and today he is the principal liaison up and down
23 the coast with the commercial and sports fishing industries.
24 He has a column for the South Texas Fishing News
25 and, of course, he's an avid angler.
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 Please welcome Art Morris with 20 years of service
2 in Coastal Fisheries.
3 (Photographs were then
4 taken; applause.)
5 MR. SANSOM: That commitment to go back and
6 continuously improve not only one's education but one's
7 ability to serve the people of Texas is one that's shared by
8 management of this Department and all of its employees and is
9 exemplified by our last employee today that we recognize.
10 Jimmy Swaim is a regional director in State Parks.
11 He's worked in State Parks for 20 years. He started out as
12 regional maintenance specialist in Region 6.
13 He came to work here in Austin in 1988 to coordinate
14 the maintenance operation for the north part of Texas. While
15 he was here, in the early part of this decade, Jimmy, too,
16 was able to complete his Bachelor's degree. And in 1992, he
17 was promoted to regional director in Abilene, where he
18 supervises all of the parks in Region 6.
19 After five years in Abilene, he transferred to the
20 State Park region in Region 5 in Somerville, where he is
21 currently assigned as Regional Director.
22 Please recognize Jimmy Swaim from State Parks, 20
23 years of service to Texas Parks and Wildlife.
24 (Photographs were then
25 taken; applause.)
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, that concludes our
2 service awards and citations today. Thank you very much,
3 members.
4 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1: ACTION - CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Sansom. We have
6 a number of items that are eligible for the consent agenda
7 today, Items 4, 5, 7, 11, 12, 14 and 15. They are eligible
8 in that they've been approved by the appropriate committees
9 for consideration by the entire commission, and there is no
10 public comment requested today.
11 Nobody from the public has requested to comment,
12 rather.
13 The Chair would entertain a motion to move any or
14 all of these to the consent agenda, or if anybody on the
15 Commission would like further discussion or presentation by
16 the staff on these, obviously, we can leave it on the regular
17 agenda.
18 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: I move these being moved
19 to the consent agenda.
20 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Second.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: I have a motion and a second to
22 move them all to the consent agenda. All in favor? Any
23 opposed?
24 Hearing none, so done.
25 (Motion carries unanimously.)
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 CHAIRMAN BASS: And the first order of business
2 would, therefore, be to approve the items on the consent
3 agenda and the staff recommendations inherent in those.
4 Chair would entertain a motion.
5 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval from consent
6 agenda.
7 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Second.
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. All in
9 favor? Any opposed. Motion carries.
10 (Motion carries unanimously.)
11 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2: ACTION - MIGRATORY GAME BIRD
12 PROCLAMATION.
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: That brings us to Item 2,
14 migratory game bird proclamation. Vernon Bevill, please.
15 MR. BEVILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm
16 Vernon Bevill, Program Director for Migratory Wildlife and
17 Wetland Ecology.
18 As you recall from the April meeting, we came to you
19 with a request to publish the proposed changes for the 2000,
20 2001 migratory game bird season.
21 At this meeting, we will be asking you to act on the
22 general rules and those rules pertaining to early season
23 species.
24 Very quickly, a summary of changes that we're
25 proposing is the change in the opening of teal season and the
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 closing date to amend the Zone C hunting season for sandhill
2 cranes and to make a slight boundary increase in that Zone C
3 area for sandhill cranes. And then the other changes are
4 based on the calendar shift between last year and this year.
5 For teal, we realize this year would require us, if
6 we stuck with the traditional Saturday opener, to open too
7 early in September to guarantee a real high quality teal
8 season, with that opener being required to start on the 9th.
9 Because we have to set the entire teal season within
10 the month of September, and we anticipate a 16-day season, we
11 felt it was most appropriate and would provide the greatest
12 hunting opportunity to recommend to you opening teal season
13 on Friday, the 15th of September, and ending on Saturday, the
14 30th of September.
15 We've had a number of public comments on this
16 particular issue, and they run about 10 or 11 to one in favor
17 of this recommendation.
18 For sandhill cranes, we would like to come back from
19 our recommendation from the April meeting and modify that and
20 request that the sandhill crane season for Zone C be amended
21 to open on December the 30th and run through February the
22 4th, rather than January the 6th through February the 11th.
23 And the primary reason for this is when we come to
24 you in August with the late season rules, which will include
25 the conservation hunt for light geese, it will necessitate us
RHONDA HOWARD CSR NO. 4136 (512) 328-5557
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SVCS., 3101 BEE CAVES RD., STE. 220, AUSTIN, TEXAS
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1 closing the sandhill crane season when conservation rules are
2 initiated, probably the day after duck season closes, which
3 effectively eliminates about half of the sandhill crane
4 season in that area, anyway.
5 So by opening a week earlier, we guarantee at least
6 a week of hunting opportunity for hunters in Zone C.
7 We've also worked with our flyaway council and U.S.
8 Fish and Wildlife service toward an expansion of the hunting
9 area available in Coastal Texas. And at this time, we are
10 looking at several options and how that would come to pass.
11 We hope that the service regulations committee,
12 which meets later this month in Washington, will approve the
13 proposed extension of the boundary and will allow the Zone C
14 bag limit of three birds to be taken in that area.
15 However, if Zone C expansion is approved, but the
16 regular bag limit is not approved - and there was some
17 discussion in our flyaway meeting in March that it would
18 probably be approved, but not necessarily with a three-bird
19 bag - then we would want to establish that as a Zone D, with
20 a bag this is approved by the Service Regulations Committee.
21 And, of course, the last possibility is that the
22 Service Regulations Committee would not approve that, and we
23 would be back to where we were last year with proposal.
24 So in summary, our preferred option is to have a
25 Zone C expansion with a primary bag limit of three birds.
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1 Alternative 1 would be the extension of the hunting
2 area and call it Zone D with a one- or two-bird bag as
3 approved by the Service Regulations Committee.
4 And then the second alternative is basically no
5 change.
6 This would necessitate potential for the Executive
7 Director to make emergency rules, based on the approval of
8 the Fish and Wildlife service for this particular set of
9 recommendations. So that's the -- the component of our
10 proposal is up in the air.
11 We propose right now for it to be part of Zone C,
12 presuming that the bag limit is unchanged.
13 Mourning doves, basically there's no change from
14 last year. We are, again, recommending a 15-bird bag limit,
15 a 60-day season. The season dates reflect calendar shift.
16 We've had fairly light public comment. Most of it
17 has revolved around the teal season. We've picked up about
18 six comments since this slide was made, all in favor of
19 opening the teal season on the 15th and closing on the 30th.
20 Mr. Chairman, at this time, staff recommendation is
21 that Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the proposed
22 amendments to 31 TAC 65.314, 65.315 and 319, concerning the
23 migratory game bird proclamation for early season species
24 with changes to the proposed text and appropriate sandhill
25 crane hunting area expansion alternative, as published in the
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1 April 28, 2000 issue of the Texas Register. Any questions?
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions of Mr. Bevill
3 from the Commission? Being none, we'll take public comment
4 at this time.
5 David Langford, if you would come forward to speak,
6 and Mr. Gilleland, if you would be prepared to speak next,
7 please.
8 MR. LANGFORD: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
9 members of the Commission. Welcome back Commissioner Ryan.
10 I'm David Langford, Texas Wildlife Association, and
11 I would urge the Commission to approve the staff
12 recommendation.
13 Mr. Bevill made a very, very interesting and
14 in-depth presentation to the New Hunting Advisory Commission
15 last week, and the amount of work that goes into these
16 recommendations is really something to behold. So we urge
17 the acceptance of the staff proposal. Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
19 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis Gilleland.
20 I'm a private citizen. I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which
21 is an Internet animal rights organization on the Internet.
22 My comment on the migratory game bird proclamation,
23 first of all, relating to the item which you have in your
24 hand, which is an item from the Dallas Morning News, dated 6
25 February, 1999, which says, "Judge refuses to lift ban on
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1 pigeon shoot." It says, "Pigeons substitute rock dove."
2 I have read the Texas Register publication on your
3 migratory game bird proclamation, Texas Register published 28
4 April, 2000. It mentions numerous times doves all over the
5 place, dove season. And, also, it mentions on Page 3701,
6 Subparagraph E, red bill pigeons and band-tail pigeons, no
7 open season.
8 So the precedence is set. And you lawyers will
9 appreciate that. The precedence is set. Pigeons are
10 addressed and doves are addressed in your proclamation.
11 So my comment -- my first comment addresses the
12 Dallas Gun Club, which uses rock doves as targets. Instead
13 of clay pigeons, the Dallas Gun Club uses live animals.
14 This article refers to 10,000 rock doves being used
15 as clay pigeons thrown in the air at Carrollton and shooting
16 up the place. The real number is 25,000.
17 The 25,000 rock doves are gathered by dealers,
18 brought down to Carrollton and tossed up in the air for these
19 people to render into a mass of feathers with their 12-gauge
20 shot guns.
21 So my first comment is please do something in your
22 proclamation to stop the gun shoots up at Carrollton Dallas
23 Gun Club by mentioning the rock dove; include them in there.
24 And my final comment is -- which I don't think you
25 you'll do that, because it runs against your grain to do
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1 something for animals. You only do things for people who
2 vote and have money and build high fences and charge $5,000
3 to shoot a deer.
4 So my last comment is, if you will not take my
5 recommendation, I would ask that you install -- don't look so
6 grim, Commissioner Ryan. Install and put in a regulation
7 which --
8 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Gilleland -- Mr. Gilleland,
9 I'll ask you to keep your remarks --
10 MR. GILLELAND: -- put in a regulation which
11 says that hunters must eat all the rock doves they kill, all
12 25,000 of them, before they leave the shooting range. Thank
13 you.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Bevill, do you have any
15 comments?
16 MR. BEVILL: Rock doves are not covered by the
17 Migratory Bird Treaty Act. We don't -- regulate rock doves.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you for that
19 clarification. Any further comments or questions? Care to
20 make a motion?
21 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So moved.
22 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Second.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. All in
24 favor? Any opposed? Thank you very much.
25 (Motion carries unanimously.)
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1 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
2 adopts the proposed amendments to 31 TAC
3 65.314, 65.315, and 65.319, concerning the
4 Migratory Game Bird Proclamation, with
5 changes to the proposed text and appropriate
6 sandhill crane hunting area expansion
7 alternative, as published in the April 28,
8 2000, issue of the Texas Register (25
9 TexReg 3700)."
10 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3: BRIEFING - THE EVOLUTION OF BASS
11 FISHING IN TEXAS.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: That brings us to Item 3. Phil
13 Durocher.
14 (WHEREUPON, a briefing item was presented to
15 the commissioners after which, the following
16 proceedings were had:)
17 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6: ACTION - SALTWATER SPORT FISHING
18 STAMP SURCHARGE.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: That brings us to saltwater
20 sport fishing stamp surcharge. Dr. McKinney.
21 DR. MCKINNEY: I'll tell you, Mr. Chairman, I
22 haven't had much luck finding those dumb bass, either. I
23 think I fish in only the smart bass lakes.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: My wife assured me she knows
25 where one is.
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1 DR. MCKINNEY: I probably shouldn't have
2 started down that road. I think I'll just do my item.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: My teenage daughter really
4 knows where it is.
5 DR. MCKINNEY: Mr. Chairman, I'll just move
6 down the line, if you don't mind.
7 For the record, I'm Larry McKinney, senior director
8 of aquatic resources. The item you have before you for
9 consideration today is an increase in saltwater sport fishing
10 stamp and surcharge to accelerate our buy-back program for
11 shrimp licenses.
12 We looked at a number of options on this program.
13 The options the staff has recommended to the Commission is to
14 set a goal of retiring 50 percent of our shrimp licenses
15 while also maximizing retirement of crab and finish licenses.
16 A couple of key points in a recommendation.
17 One is our recommendation to increase the saltwater
18 stamp only, not the fishing licenses, but only where
19 individuals -- who purchase the saltwater stamp.
20 We have recommended a five-year -- a cap of five
21 years on that proposal, and we -- that is set an effort -- a
22 goal is to meet that time in the five-year period.
23 We estimate that we would generate over that period
24 seven million dollars. And what we would do, of course, is,
25 focus on our goal of retiring the shrimping licenses but also
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1 take advantage of whatever the market dictates to retire the
2 license as well as so we maximize the use of those funds
3 should you move forward with it.
4 Some of the issues that certainly have been
5 important in moving toward that goal, one, is sunsetting that
6 provision to make sure that once we set our goal, we will
7 sunsett that provision and give the Commission opportunity to
8 come back and look at it at the end of that five-year period
9 to see if we were successful.
10 Clearly, we want to set clear and measurable goals.
11 That's what we tried to do in this process of looking at
12 retiring -- up to 50 percent of those shrimping licenses and
13 setting the sunset period.
14 You've heard testimony yesterday, and I'm sure you
15 will today, about the importance of linking conservation
16 measures that we're considering in the shrimping industry
17 with this buy-back program and the importance of linking
18 those two to be successful in what we're trying to achieve.
19 Also, we will be looking, as well as others, toward
20 finding additional funds -- federal funds to help us
21 accelerate that program.
22 Summary of some of the comments that we have
23 received to date: Since our last briefing, there has been
24 very few comments at all, 12 all together. But what I have
25 put together for you is a summary of that portion of our
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1 saltwater stamp fishing surveys that deal with this issue
2 where we ask our anglers their support for additional fees to
3 retire those shrimping licenses at one, two and three dollars
4 and you see the results here of a very broad-based support
5 for this activity and the purposes that we're aiming at.
6 With that very brief summary, staff would recommend
7 the Commission consider the following motion. And I'm sure
8 there will be public testimony. I will be available to
9 answer questions after -- at your pleasure, Mr. Chairman.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Obviously, we spent
11 quite some time yesterday discussing shrimp management, both
12 from the point of the view -- of the commercial and the
13 recreational users' perspective, but thank you.
14 This is one aspect of that that we're addressing
15 today. Believe it or not, there's not any public comments
16 signed up for today on this. But the Chair would entertain
17 any discussion or comments from this item in the context of
18 shrimp management issues as a whole
19 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Well, you know, I would
20 just like to comment that, you know, I think the buy-back
21 program is terribly important. But I also think that we need
22 to move aggressively to adapt or adopt some of our
23 regulations on shrimp to coincide with this.
24 I mean, obviously, I don't think they ought to be
25 tied together. But if we are unable to come up with any
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1 improvements in our shrimp regulations, I think we should
2 re-visit that at some time.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Other comments?
4 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The concern that I have
5 that was expressed yesterday by several members of the
6 Commission regarding the effectiveness of this program, I
7 mean, it's critically important that we keep close tabs on
8 how it's going and people report to the Commission with
9 results, if you see them, as licenses are bought back and
10 what impact you think those are having on the fisheries.
11 DR. MCKINNEY: We will certainly do that, sir.
12 As we talked about yesterday, this is something new that
13 hasn't been tried before, so we don't know exactly where
14 we're going. But we certainly appreciate -- have --
15 appreciated the Commission's support in moving forward on it.
16 And we're going to do everything we can to live up to that
17 confidence and move down the course of where we want to go.
18 So we will do that, sir.
19 COMMISSIONER AVILA: I think the other thing
20 that we want to say, involved in our discussion last
21 yesterday and last evening, is the Shrimp Advisory Committee
22 needs to really get together at least twice in the next 90
23 days while it's being evaluated in a public comment time
24 frame.
25 DR. MCKINNEY: Yes, sir.
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1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Other comments?
2 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval of the
3 recommendation.
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion for approval.
5 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Second.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Second. Any further
7 discussion? All in favor. Any opposed?
8 So off we go into an expanded buy-back program and
9 expectations to monitor results closely, try to get some grip
10 on how it's affecting effort as well as license outstanding
11 and expectation to see this program really ramp up with --
12 when additional funds become available starting FYO1.
13 DR. MCKINNEY: Thank you, sir. Thank you,
14 Commissioner, for your support. We will try our best to do
15 that.
16 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
17 adopts changes to 31 TAC 53.3 Finance, as
18 published in the April 28, 2000, issue of the
19 Texas Register (25 TexReg 3655-.3862.)"
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much. Bill
21 Harvey, Sea Grass Conservation rules.
22 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8: ACTION - SEA GRASS CONSERVATION
23 RULES.
24 DR. HARVEY: Mr. Chairman and members, I'm Bill
25 Harvey from the Resource Protection Division.
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1 The item now before the Commission is an action item
2 concerning implementation of the Sea Grass Conservation in
3 Texas. The proposals were published in the April 28th, 2000
4 issue of the Texas Register for public comment.
5 Red Fish Bay, members, is located roughly in a
6 triangle from Rockport to Ingleside to Port Aransas and back
7 to Rockport. It's one of the prime fishing destinations in
8 Texas, and an area which has experienced substantial and
9 documented and sea grass fragmentation.
10 The proposal for Red Fish Bay would create a state
11 scientific for duration of five years where staff would
12 continue research in the area in implementing boater
13 education and outreach program.
14 Navigable channels here would be marked to help
15 boaters avoid sea grass meadows. And I would just like to
16 add that we -- this strategy has been very strongly embraced
17 by local CCA chapters and guide associations, who have
18 volunteered to help us in this effort.
19 Central to the strategy for Red Fish Bay are the
20 creation of prop-up zones. These be would voluntary and
21 improved access. The prop-up zones are areas in which
22 boaters and anglers would be asked to access the areas by
23 drifting, poling, wading, use of trolling motors.
24 In short, boaters would be encouraged to avoid
25 running through these areas in propeller-driven vessels.
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1 And, of course, the goal here is that of preventing
2 further scarring of fragmented sea grass beds.
3 The Nine-Mile Hole proposal was brought forward to
4 the Sea Grass Task Force by the Corpus Christi Chapter of
5 CCA. The proposal was drafted with a specific goal of
6 enhancing fishing experiences and facilitating
7 fishery-related research, and to do this by managing boat
8 traffic in the northwest quadrant of the Nine-Mile Hole.
9 The Nine-Mile Hole strategy would be that of
10 establishing a state scientific area within the upper north
11 west quadrant of the Nine-Mile Hole for a period of five
12 years. Access into the Hole would be restricted by one of
13 the three cuts that you see in the -- in the slide here from
14 Roll-Off Channel, 201 Channel and Nine-Mile Hole Channel.
15 And the mandatory no-run zone would then be off
16 limits to all internal combustion-driven vessels.
17 In addition, the National Seashore, which overlays
18 part of the Nine-Mile Hole, has agreed to help us establish a
19 voluntary no-run zone in the north eastern quadrant of the
20 Nine-Mile Hole.
21 We held a public hearing March 15th in Corpus
22 Christi to seek public comment on these proposals. 120
23 people attended the meeting. 52 spoke in favor of both
24 proposals. Thirteen were opposed to the Nine-Mile Hole
25 proposal, and nine speakers opposed both.
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1 Subsequent to the meeting, staff received a request
2 to consider an alternative proposal for the Nine-Mile Hole
3 that would create restriction of boat traffic only during a
4 window from May 1st to September 30th.
5 We did not include this change in the actual rule
6 proposal, but did invite public comment during the 30-day
7 period after publication regarding a seasonal restriction to
8 boat traffic.
9 We had very broad support for both of these
10 proposals. The Coastal Bend Guides Association, CCA, Bays
11 and Estuaries Program, the other organizations listed.
12 We had two organizations listed which were in
13 opposition. The Recreational Fishing Alliance and the
14 National Marine Manufactuers Association have both expressed
15 opposition to this proposal.
16 In regard to the Red Fish Bay proposal, we only
17 received four comments, one in opposition and three in --
18 excuse me; one in support and three in opposition. Regarding
19 the Nine-Mile Hole, we received 68 comments in support of the
20 proposal for the Nine-Mile Hole as it was published, 20 in
21 opposition.
22 We also received a petition with 550 signatures
23 which were opposed to the Nine-Mile Hole proposal. We saw
24 very little support for the seasonal consideration.
25 With that, members, the staff would recommend
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1 adoption of the new 31 TAC sections 57.920, 921, as published
2 in the April 28th edition of the Texas Register.
3 With that, Mr. Chairman, I would certainly entertain
4 any comments. And I'm sure we have some folks who wish to
5 speak on this issue.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions prior to public
7 comment?
8 Kevin Daniels, if you would come forward to speak
9 first and Chris Thompson, if you would be prepared to speak
10 second.
11 MR. DANIELS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name
12 is Kevin Daniels. I'm the Executive Director of the Coastal
13 Conservation Association.
14 And I would like to tell you that our organization
15 strongly supports both of these measures. I think that
16 you've heard today regarding freshwater fishing, the effort
17 and technology of improving the harvesting of fish. The same
18 is true in saltwater.
19 I guess the reality is that we've met the enemy, and
20 he's us. There's so many of us out there now, we're creating
21 more and more problems for the resource and putting more and
22 more pressure on it.
23 So I think that what that's going to mean is it's
24 going to dictate more and more creative management practices.
25 And I think both of these projects exemplify that.
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1 I might point out that both of this -- or the
2 Nine-Mile Hole project specifically is not cutting-age
3 practice. I mean, this is -- these things, limitation of
4 horse power, limitation of access are common practice on
5 western rivers and in northern Minnesota and in southern
6 Canada. So these are things that are not new. They've just
7 never been used in Texas. But I think the time is coming,
8 and I think it's here now.
9 So we like -- we like both proposals as -- as
10 proposed by staff. We do not like the idea of the seasonal
11 closure. We think if you're going to try something new,
12 let's try it with a broad-based set of parameters. It will
13 be reviewed annually.
14 If there are problems, this thing -- it will morph
15 into what it should be over time.
16 I think, also, the fact that it does have a sunset
17 gives us an opportunity to look at it and see how effective
18 it is or isn't in five years.
19 So, again, we would strongly urge your support of
20 both of these projects. Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Kevin. Chris
22 Thompson and Lee Roy Billington, if you would be prepared to
23 speak next, please, Mr. Billington.
24 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you for letting me speak.
25 It's an honor to be here. I'm the gentleman who did the
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1 petition that Mr. Harvey talked about.
2 I would like to say we did not go to malls and ask
3 anybody to sign it. We left them at marinas, we left them at
4 bait stands. We had -- really went after fisherman with this
5 petition. And I have also been delivered about maybe 88 more
6 last night that are against this.
7 The CCA and Parks and Wildlife has no data to
8 support what they want to do with the Nine-Mile Hole. It is
9 a situation where they close this water, they tell you that I
10 can drift it, and I can tell you that I cannot, because what
11 happens is, on the map, the wind out of the southeast, which
12 is our prevailing wind all the time, blows you into this
13 bank. It's too shallow for a trolling motor. And I invite
14 anybody to push me off with a push pole in a 25-mile-an-hour
15 wind. It's not going to happen.
16 I still don't understand why all Red Fish Bay is
17 voluntary, and this is mandatory. I tried to work with the
18 guys at the CCA on a compromise of having an east/west lane,
19 the seasonal deal. These guys that want to close this fish
20 there about two months a year, and I fish there year-round.
21 It's a long trip. It's an hour and 15 minutes. There is
22 very little boat traffic in the hole.
23 You may go in there in the peak weekends and see ten
24 or 12 boats. Most of the time, it's two or three boats.
25 I can tell you in the last month, me and friends
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1 have probably caught and released in the neighborhood of 80
2 to 100 red fish in there. Fish is not the problem.
3 We -- you do have people that run over you. We have
4 inconsiderate rude people in boats. We have them on the
5 highways; might be some in this room. And laws can't change
6 these people.
7 And you're also looking at a beautiful, pristine set
8 of flats that can go in and put a bunch of PVCs in. It's a
9 beautiful area. You must see it. And this is going to ruin
10 the beauty of this area to go in and put PVC everywhere.
11 This is also an ADA problem. A friend commented to
12 me that had heart surgery that you're going to have to
13 cross-train the game wardens to also be cardiologists,
14 because it's a very muddy area to wade, and, as I said
15 before, impossible to push pole in.
16 25 percent of The Hole is what they say they are
17 closing, but this is where 90 percent of the fish are. So
18 this is misleading. It's just -- if you want to see what the
19 fishing is doing without boat traffic down there and without
20 pressure, close it to everyone, wade fishermen, kyackers,
21 motor boaters, or leave it open to everyone. Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Questions of Mr. Thompson?
23 Mr. Billington? Thank you very much, Mr. Thompson.
24 Appreciate your comments. And Jim Atkins, if you would be
25 prepared to speak next.
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1 MR. BILLINGTON: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners,
2 my name is Lee Roy Billington. I am a vice president of
3 engineering for IBC Petroleum, an independent oil and gas
4 company in San Antonio.
5 My reason for coming here today to speak is not that
6 we oppose the proposed scientific area or anything like that,
7 but we currently have oil and gas operations going on there.
8 We are looking at expanding those oil and gas operations and
9 working with the General Land Office.
10 We understand that there are some communications
11 going on between Parks and Wildlife and the GLO. Don't
12 believe that those have been concluded. We're concerned that
13 we're looking at spending significant dollars and would like
14 to have those communications concluded, have the Parks and
15 Wildlife go on and conclude these, so that we, as an
16 operator, and other people, who would be coming in to look to
17 develop the State's natural resources there in this area, can
18 feel assured that we won't run into problems getting permits
19 and things like this to go ahead with our operations.
20 That's what we would like to see happen. We would
21 just simply request that the Commission and their staff go
22 ahead with these communications and see if they can get some
23 assurance to us, through the General Land Office, that we
24 will be able to continue our operations and not run into any
25 problems. Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
2 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I wonder if we couldn't
3 have somebody comment on that at this point, because I think
4 it's important for us to clear up any misunderstandings there
5 might be with regards to that question.
6 DR. HARVEY: Commissioner Angelo, there are
7 provisions in the Parks and Wildlife Code that specifically
8 speak to that issue in Chapter 81, which is the authorizing
9 statute for the creation of scientific areas.
10 The law clearly states that any -- that the
11 designation of a scientific area does not affect any legal
12 activity which is allowed there under other law. It does
13 not -- and it does not supersede that.
14 So the designation of this as a scientific area
15 would not affect anyone's ability to exercise any existing
16 rights they had to oil and gas exploration, for example.
17 We did have lengthy conversations with the Land
18 Office about the potential of establishing these and having
19 someone come in and start oil and gas exploration. And we
20 understood that -- we were willing to take that risk.
21 So, in short, it would not affect -- it would not
22 affect that at all. And we certainly be glad to follow that
23 up with the Land Office, too.
24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: You do foresee them
25 following that up and maybe getting something official to the
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1 people who are concerned about it?
2 DR. HARVEY: Yes, sir. We'll take care of
3 that. That's a great suggestion. Appreciate that very much.
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: And there would be no new
5 permit created by this to -- to enable oil and gas
6 exploration or anything?
7 DR. HARVEY: No, sir. Again, it's clearly laid
8 out that we just would not have that.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Sounds like one avenue may be
10 simply for us to consider going on the record that, you know,
11 our understanding of the law is that this has -- would have
12 no impact on these uses, and basically state -- state over
13 the Executive Director's signature what, you know, the
14 Department's position and interpretation of the law is, as
15 you just outlined it.
16 DR. HARVEY: Yes, sir.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Transmit that to the GLO. And,
18 probably, I would think -- I would think that might take care
19 of the whole issue right there.
20 DR. HARVEY: We'll follow up on that, sir.
21 It's a good suggestion. Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good. Thank you. Jim Atkins?
23 And, Mr. Harvey, you'll have opportunity to comment on
24 follow-up with some of the other issues raised by some of the
25 public -- members of the public after they're finished.
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1 Jim Atkins. Would he come forward and speak? Are
2 you here?
3 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's here. Let me see
4 if he's outside.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: We'll shuffle him to the back
6 of the deck and ask David Guidry if you would come forward
7 and speak.
8 And Jack North, if you would be prepared to speak
9 after Mr. Guidry.
10 MR. GUIDRY: Morning. That was convenient. My
11 name is David Guidry. I'm from Corpus Christi, and I'm a
12 local fisherman.
13 I am a member of the Recreational Fishing Alliance.
14 I'm here to speak against the Nine-Mile Hole issue. The
15 north part, the sea grass issue, I'm in support of that. I'm
16 not against conservation that works.
17 Some of the reasons I don't support the Nine-Mile
18 Hole issue is basically it's self-regulating. Biologists
19 already stated it's a super shallow area.
20 It's not a sea grass issue. Already showed
21 yesterday, I'm sure, that boats that can run in there can go
22 in super shallow water without hitting any grass.
23 And the area that they're closing down, most of the
24 year, you can't drift it anyway, because those channels that
25 they're going to build for us to drift to, to get out, you're
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1 not going to be able to drift through. The water is too
2 shallow.
3 So, basically, it's self-regulating. There's not a
4 whole lot of boats down there. And the fish are there for a
5 reason.
6 You know, I'm not a biologist. I don't know. You
7 know, the Texas Parks and Wildlife red fish numbers are good.
8 You know, our conservation numbers on slots and limits and
9 catch and release are working excellent.
10 Another thing that bothers me is that it goes
11 against my heritage or Texas heritage of my grandfather
12 teaching my father and my father teaching me how to fish and
13 how to take care of our natural resources and don't take
14 anything that you won't eat. We never filled an ice chest.
15 This carried on to my adulthood. I have a degree
16 from Texas A&M University at College Station in park and
17 recreation administration. I have countless hours, 30 hours,
18 in natural resource management course work.
19 And because I'm a recreational specialist, there's
20 things that concern me. And one being this proposal, the
21 Nine-Mile Hole issue, was proposed by a guide through the
22 CCA. And I'm not jumping on guides or anything else, but
23 they make up a very small percentage of the recreational
24 fisherman in Texas.
25 You have your -- your experience level that they say
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1 they're trying to create here. And it's only going to take
2 five years and we'll review it then. Who are they going to
3 ask in five years? They're not going to ask me, because I
4 won't be there. I'm going to be restricted, you know, for
5 personal reasons or, if I can't do it, for physical reasons.
6 Are they going to ask the guide that proposed it,
7 you know, "How is your fishing experience now? Are the red
8 fish biting better?" He's going to say, with a fat wallet,
9 "Yes, they are."
10 You know, I'm concerned as a recreation specialist
11 that I have not seen anything on the barriers act or any ADA
12 act for the handicapped or the senior citizens that fish this
13 area on a regular basis.
14 I know when I worked with TRAPS with this Commission
15 when we were doing a park and recreation master plans for
16 cities and college, that that was a big issue.
17 They're calling this a scientific area now --
18 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, sir. Your time is up.
19 MR. GUIDRY: Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Guidry.
21 Jack North. And Troy Williamson, if you would be
22 prepared to speak next.
23 MR. NORTH: Mr. Chairman and members of the
24 Commission, I just want to take this opportunity to voice my
25 support for the Nine-Mile Hole and Red Fish Bay projects.
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1 As a recreational fisherman, who has been lucky
2 enough to have been born and raised in the Corpus Christi
3 area, I've been walking, drifting, floating over the top of
4 those areas for the last 40-plus years. And I can tell you
5 that that's -- they're a unique eco system to these areas.
6 And I believe that the proposal, as it's written in the
7 Register, will allow not only a wider, greater experience for
8 fisherman, whether in or out of a boat, but will also have an
9 effect on these areas that will, in fact, enhance fishing for
10 the future and for years to come for everybody. Thank you
11 very much.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. North, could I ask you a
13 question, please? Sounds like you do not share the concerns
14 of some of the other speakers that, due to prevailing winds,
15 due to the softness of bottom, et cetera, that wading or
16 poling is -- is not feasible?
17 MR. NORTH: No, sir. I've been in those areas
18 off and on since the mid '50s. I can tell you there's been a
19 lot of bottom changing from large time -- periods of time
20 where there's sea grass, periods of time where there is
21 mostly sand.
22 There are soft areas. You can avoid those areas.
23 It's not a general overlay of muddy, unwadeable fishing
24 area. There are some parts of the Nine-Mile Hole that is a
25 boggy area that does really prohibit wading comfortably, but
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1 you can get in and out of it.
2 But there is far more that is a good bottom to wade.
3 The prevailing wind issue, there was, I think, a mention of
4 poling problems in -- in the -- with the prevailing wind
5 pushing your boat around.
6 One of the reasons that the meeting in Corpus
7 earlier, where the lanes were extended, access lanes on one
8 particular part of this area was extended, so that the poling
9 issue would be easier on those that were going to do that
10 type of activity, to shorten that area to where you would
11 have to pole through.
12 It's interesting that some of the objection is to
13 shallow water or this being self-regulating because of
14 shallow water. To me, that's all the more reason to prevent
15 or to provide a prop-up area, where you're not channeling or
16 running through these pristine areas and creating the very
17 damage that the scientific area is being set up to study and
18 gather data, hopefully maybe to be used as a template for
19 other areas that may be subject to this type of degradation.
20 So there is a southeast wind that is prevailing.
21 You would have to pole or push your boat along if you got in
22 a certain position or got in that shallow water. But this
23 particular area that's being referred to is more of a mindset
24 commitment when you're going in there. By admission, it's
25 shallow, and you know there's going to be areas that usually
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1 you can't even drift over.
2 So if you commit to the area, you need to be ready
3 to have the ability to get out of it, either by poling,
4 pushing, pulling your boat.
5 There are areas that trolling motors can be used.
6 There are areas that they can't be used. It's just a unique
7 eco system area that lends itself mainly to shallow water
8 tactics.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
10 MR. NORTH: Yes, sir.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Troy Williamson. And Jim
12 Atkins, if you would be prepared to speak next.
13 MR. WILLIAMSON: Good morning, ladies and
14 gentlemen of the Commission. I'm Troy Williamson. I'm from
15 Corpus Christi.
16 I'm here to speak this morning in favor of the
17 Nine-Mile Hole project as well as the Red Fish Bay project.
18 In that regard, I would voice my opposition to the
19 less restrictive seasonal approach that's published in the
20 Register for two reasons: No.1, the sea grass and wildlife
21 resources that we seek to protect with this project are not
22 there only on a seasonal basis. They're there year-round.
23 Not only that, I believe that the seasonal approach
24 would send the wrong message to the fishing and boating
25 public; that is, our commitment to protecting these resources
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1 should be a year-round lifetime commitment, not just a
2 seasonal approach. Thank you.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Jim Atkins. And if
4 Jim Smarr would be prepared to speak next.
5 MR. ATKINS: Yes. Mr. Chairman and members of
6 the Commission, I'm Jim Atkins from Corpus Christi. I'm
7 involved with CCA in Corpus. I'm State Board and State
8 Executive Committee. Have been involved in the Nine-Mile
9 Hole project since we first started talking about it, about
10 five years ago.
11 We're obviously a proponent of the program. It
12 really has been in discussion for five years. I saw that
13 look.
14 We put together a committee in Corpus literally, and
15 it started out as kind of an informal group about five years
16 ago. The consensus was the evolution -- it was shallow draft
17 boat. It was opening up areas that historically we couldn't
18 get to.
19 I personally am totally convinced if you run enough
20 boats across an extremely shallow, sensitive flat, you're
21 going to disrupt the pattern of the fish on that flat.
22 They're going to either go up higher and skinnier where a
23 boat can't get to them, or they're going to go out and drop
24 off the edge.
25 There's not any science to support that theory.
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1 However, most of the biologists that are in this building
2 that are familiar with the saltwater area subscribe to it, as
3 do most shallow water fisherman subscribe to it.
4 Through this committee, there's a local committee.
5 And I think it's important to understand that this Nine-Mile
6 Hole project was a local initiative. It was something that
7 was developed in the Corpus area. The committee was made up
8 of a group of people, part CCA, part not CCA, but all who had
9 fished that area for an extended period of time.
10 Most of them looked like me, with a lot of gray hair
11 and about nine million miles of walking through the thing.
12 It's important, though, the ultimate plan was
13 developed and submitted to Parks and Wildlife. It's well
14 thought out. It takes into account bottom conditions, or
15 tries to.
16 The north end of the Hole was the area picked,
17 because it is extremely shallow as compared to the south end.
18 It's easier to lay out, just on a little north/south
19 configuration, and it lends itself to this type of project.
20 The area that was just being discussed and the
21 poling and the getting out between which -- between the 201
22 and the Roll-Off area, the average water depth in there, on
23 an annual basis, is less than three feet.
24 In August, the water literally is like that. You
25 can't even run a shallow draft boat through there.
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1 Most of the year, it's deep enough to run through,
2 but you can't shut it down. The nature of the shallow draft
3 boat, it will run shallower than it will float.
4 And part of the concern and part of the things that
5 we were trying to address was a highway effect through this
6 area, coming from the south end of Yarborough (phonetic),
7 going to the south of end of the Hole with no intent of
8 fishing this area, but, rather, using it as a highway.
9 And most of us have stood out there and seen those
10 fish break and run. There was -- oh, I see the yellow light.
11 I'm in trouble already, but that's life.
12 I'll just do a summation. I was going to address
13 one of Commissioner Ryan's questions relative to enforcement
14 from yesterday. We have visited with Don Parker, Director of
15 Regional Enforcement, as well as Gary Palmer, who's that
16 District Chief. And -- do you want to cut me off, or can I
17 keep going?
18 MR. SANSOM: Conclude your remarks, please,
19 Mr. Atkins.
20 MR. ATKINS: They both have indicated that this
21 is enforceable, that they have personnel. The way that
22 question was worded yesterday, they're both don't leave from
23 Corpus and go to the Nine-Mile Hole. Mike Fain is the
24 principal warden in that area out of Sarita. He comes
25 through Kennedy to a boat ranch in the cut. That's how he
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1 works the cut. That boat ramp is three miles or four miles
2 from the entrance to the Hole.
3 So as far as personnel, fuel, it's not a big problem
4 at this point. There been some discussion that if it got to
5 be a problem, there may be some ways to supplement some fuel
6 money or something on some initial enforcement.
7 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, Mr. Atkins.
8 MR. ATKINS: That's fine. Any questions? I'll
9 try. Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much. We
11 appreciate your work on this.
12 Jim Smarr. And Mr. Yeamans, if you would be
13 prepared to speak next.
14 MR. SMARR: Chairman Bass, fellow
15 Commissioners, I thank you for the time to speak to you. I'm
16 Jim Smarr, with the Recreational Fishing Alliance. I am
17 State Chairman of this organization. It's the only 501.4(c)
18 organization in the country representing fishermen in all of
19 the coastal states, including Alaska and Hawaii. We're in
20 the United Kingdom. We're in Australia and Kenya, Africa.
21 Our membership is strictly fishermen that care about
22 fishing. We're sort of the NRA of the fishing industry.
23 We were not allowed on the sea grass panel, and I
24 have problems with that. But besides that, we agree that the
25 Red Fish Bay/Estes Flats thing, as it is now, is a workable
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1 and, I think, a good solution.
2 In the beginning, it was much broader. I fought it
3 tooth and nail. Where that stands today, I think we can live
4 with it.
5 The Nine-Mile Hole project, we're adamantly opposed
6 to at the RFA. I spoke to my Executive Director this morning
7 on my way here. The National Marine Manufacturer Association
8 stands with us.
9 We're against the fact that with the prevailing
10 wind, if you're blown against the shore, it's impossible to
11 pole the boat a mile from the shore back to the channel that
12 we'll need to get out.
13 It restricts the handicapped or health impaired
14 people. There are only 40 or 50 people, I think, that
15 normally use that area. And I think we're spending a whole
16 lot of time in an area that we don't need to in designating
17 it a scientific area.
18 The RFA has one other problem, and that is a blanket
19 issuance of a scientific research area by Parks and Wildlife,
20 because we're afraid of what can happen once you open it up
21 to a scientific research area. There are a lot of laws that
22 give Parks and Wildlife specific latitude there that we're
23 afraid of as are the National Marine Manufacturers Trade
24 Association.
25 We respectfully disagree on the Nine-Mile Hole
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1 project. I thank you for your time.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Smarr.
3 Mr. Yeamans. Spencer Collins, if you would be
4 prepared to speak next.
5 MR. YEAMANS: Thank you, Chairman Bass.
6 Congratulations to you, Ms. Dinkins. And as an ex-Iowanite,
7 it's extremely good to see Nolan this morning.
8 I am A.C. Yeamans. I am a volunteer representative
9 of the Rockport Area Chamber of Commerce and served on the
10 Task Force for the sea grass.
11 When this issue -- and most of my thoughts have been
12 expressed already. But when this issue first came up a year
13 and a half ago, emotions got pretty high, and some people got
14 very upset. I am extremely happy that what we are now
15 proposing meets the approval of most people.
16 You have in your record letter from Aransas County
17 Commissioners Court, Rockport Chamber of Commerce, as Bill
18 Harvey said, the CCA and The Guides Associations have all
19 volunteered their time to put the markings out and so forth.
20 And this came about, I think, because of inclusion,
21 because of the Task Force, and because we, on the local
22 level, had the opportunity to say what we thought.
23 And serving on one of these, you always learn
24 something. And the main you thing you learn is how little
25 you really know. It spurred somebody to say, "Maybe we don't
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1 need marine biologists to talk about sea grass; maybe we need
2 marine hydrologists to understand what subtle tide changes do
3 to the bottom and what our not so subtle winds in the Coastal
4 Bend do to things."
5 But inclusion, openness and the -- the -- having the
6 inputs from the people I think is what has brought us to this
7 point and what will make this a success.
8 So my message this morning, since most of my
9 thoughts have already been expressed, is continue the
10 inclusion, continue to let people know what's happening, to
11 ask questions.
12 As a -- I'm a realtor in the Rockport area. A big
13 part of my business is vacation rentals in the Estes Flats
14 areas that we're talking about. People from everywhere --
15 I guess with my unusual name, when it hit the paper that I
16 was on this Task Force, I got a lot of calls from the Houston
17 area from people that didn't know where I had gone when I
18 left that part of the world.
19 But what is happening to Estes Flats? And it's
20 something that everybody's interested in, and it's something
21 that through the program of inclusion - I've used that word a
22 number of times - but that's what's going to make this a
23 success.
24 Thank you. And I do support it, if you didn't.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
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1 Appreciate you volunteering your time in the process.
2 Spencer Collins. And Will Myers, if you would be
3 prepared to speak next.
4 MR. COLLINS: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm
5 here today to support the sea grass plans as proposed without
6 any seasonal aspects to those plans.
7 I am a member of the CCA. I'm the Austin Chapter
8 president of the CCA, and I fish both areas quite frequently.
9 And as far as, you know, commitment to the Nine-Mile Hole
10 area, you know, it's going to be my plan from now on -- I do
11 have a shallow draft boat. But when I'm ready to fish the
12 Nine-Mile Hole, I'm going to park in the land cut, anchor in
13 the land cut, jump the spoil islands and wade in there.
14 So, you know, it's not going to -- the plan will not
15 prevent me from fishing in this area, because, you know, I've
16 got a game plan to get in and out, and that's wading in and
17 out. So I do support that.
18 I have observed over the last six or seven years
19 that I've been an avid saltwater angler, the deterioration of
20 the sea grass is certainly in those areas, but, you know, in
21 other areas, too.
22 And five or six years ago, I was one of those, you
23 know, tearing that up with my props. I've been educated
24 through the last few years and certainly try to prevent that
25 from happening.
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1 So I encourage you to support the proposals. Thank
2 you.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much. Will
4 Myers?
5 MR. MYERS: Good morning, Commissioners. My
6 name is Will Myers, and I was fortunate enough to have been
7 selected to serve on the Sea Grass Task Force that formulated
8 the proposals before you today.
9 I want to take this opportunity to thank the
10 Resource Protection Division, in particular, Dr. McKinney and
11 Dr. Harvey for their efforts over the past year in bringing
12 the Coastal Bend Bay users together to address a somewhat
13 contentious issue in finding a reasonable path that the
14 community can follow to protect and share - and I stress the
15 word "share" - a wonderful public resource long into the
16 future.
17 Although change can be difficult, change is
18 necessary to respond to the growing number of impacts
19 threatening our -- the health of our bay system.
20 We cannot sit idly by and hope these problems will
21 disappear, because they won't.
22 If passed, these proposals will demonstrate that
23 heads are clearly out of the sand and that management of
24 traffic in the sensitive bay waters is desirable and will be
25 to the benefit of all user groups.
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1 We have a responsibility to ourselves and to future
2 Texans to protect and preserve these fragile coastal
3 resources and the recreational experiences that they provide.
4 I hope you will vote in the affirmative. Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. That concludes our
6 public comment.
7 Dr. Harvey, if you would come back, I think there
8 are a couple of issues that were raised that you might like
9 to respond to.
10 COMMISSIONER HENRY : Seasonal aspect,
11 Mr. Chairman.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Would you address that, please?
13 DR. HARVEY: The -- there was some interest
14 from some constituents --
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Just to clarify, for my sake,
16 the current plan does not have a seasonal aspect?
17 DR. HARVEY: It does not.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: The proposal from staff does
19 not include a seasonal aspect?
20 DR. HARVEY: It does not. Right.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Which, basically, what we heard
22 today was in accordance. We didn't hear anybody, I don't
23 believe, asking for that to be changed.
24 DR. HARVEY: That's correct. The current
25 proposal does not include a seasonal. And I'm sorry if I
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1 misunderstood the question, Commissioner.
2 COMMISSIONER HENRY: No. A couple of the
3 speakers indicated that -- that concern over a seasonal
4 aspect of two months specifically was mentioned. And I
5 thought we needed to clear that up.
6 DR. HARVEY: Again, one of the sort of
7 compromises between a total closure or a total restriction
8 and that of no restriction was to do it on a seasonal basis.
9 And we actually pursued that during the public comment
10 period, such that there would be a season somewhere in the
11 window of May 1st through September 30th in which it would be
12 closed to boat traffic and the rest of the year would be
13 open. But we just really had no substantial support for
14 that.
15 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Bill, is there an issue for
16 the ADA?
17 DR. HARVEY: No, sir. We really appreciate
18 Mr. Guidry's comment earlier, because it was something
19 that -- I mean, we thought we were clear on, but wanted to
20 make sure. But ADA does not apply in this situation.
21 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: You know, we probably got
22 as many letters and petition signatures on this issue as
23 anything that I've seen since I've been on the Commission.
24 And there's obviously a very sharp difference of opinion
25 about what you can and can't do.
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1 But I think it's going to be very critical again
2 that this be something we monitor closely and see what impact
3 it's actually having both on the resources as well as on the
4 people that want to use it.
5 I'm a little bit confused, I guess, by people saying
6 that you -- you can't -- you can't fish it without a boat and
7 they would like to see it a voluntary deal. But if it's
8 voluntary, does that mean that they would go ahead and do
9 what they wanted to do anyway?
10 I don't quite understand, I guess, the -- the -- how
11 the voluntary part is going to work. If you physically can't
12 fish it without a boat, does that mean that if it's
13 voluntary, then you're not going to be able to fish, or what
14 exactly does that mean?
15 DR. HARVEY: Well, the real issue there is that
16 it was our belief, as we studied this over the course of the
17 last year, that to make the Nine-Mile Hole a voluntary area
18 would simply invite the sort of boat traffic activity that
19 we're experiencing now; that, in effect, it would have no
20 effect, and that the alternatives were to either do it under
21 a mandatory restriction of some sort, whether that was
22 seasonal or year-round, or to not do it at all; that a
23 voluntary was probably not going to function very well.
24 The physiography of the area, Commissioner, is such
25 that Mr. Atkins made a good point that boats can actually run
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1 through here that can run through it but cannot stop. They
2 can actually run shallower than they can sit. And, you know,
3 there is no -- there's probably no perfect place to implement
4 this sort of experiment. This just probably is not a perfect
5 place.
6 But in our opinion, in terms of its distance from
7 major fishing areas, the fact that it has enough boat traffic
8 that we can get meaningful information, but not so much that
9 it would displace a large number of anglers, we felt like
10 this was a good place to take a look.
11 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Well, Mr. Chairman, I
12 would like to compliment the staff on the comprehensiveness
13 of their study. I've had the opportunity to attend both the
14 meetings in Port Aransas and Corpus Christi, and I believe
15 that there was every effort made to involve the stake
16 holders.
17 I've had the opportunity, also, to own property in
18 Rockport for the last 25 years, so this is an area that I am,
19 you know, somewhat familiar with. I feel like the charge we
20 have is to protect not only this resource in the year 2000,
21 but protect this resource in the year 2030 and beyond. And I
22 think that this is a significant opportunity for us to take
23 meaningful strides to make sure that this resource remains
24 intact and is going to be able to survive the continuing
25 pressure that's being put on it. But I think the staff has
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1 done a wonderful job, and I would like to commend them on
2 that.
3 DR. HARVEY: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I
4 might, real quickly, it's been a real honor for me to have
5 the opportunity to work on this project. But I would be
6 remiss without recognizing the contributions of Larry
7 McEachron from in Coastal Fisheries. He's been absolutely
8 instrumental in getting this done. And we appreciate that
9 very much.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any other comments or questions
11 at this time?
12 Has Florida implemented anything similar to this in
13 any of their --
14 DR. HARVEY: They have, Mr. Chairman. It was
15 interesting, in talking to some of their staff, initially
16 there was a lot of -- well, "a lot" is hard to quantify. But
17 there was substantial opposition to doing these sorts of
18 things in Florida. But they've been very successful there.
19 They've also been very successful in other
20 countries, where areas have actually been set aside to boat
21 traffic.
22 But the Florida experience has been one of initial
23 opposition. Then as it has evolved, anglers have really come
24 to appreciate those areas.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: How long have they been doing
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1 it in Florida?
2 DR. HARVEY: I couldn't say for sure. I don't
3 know the answer to that.
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: And are their programs
5 voluntary, mandatory or a mix?
6 DR. HARVEY: In general, mandatory?
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: They do have some voluntary
8 ones?
9 DR. HARVEY: It's my understanding that they
10 have one or two, but not many.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Primarily mandatory?
12 DR. HARVEY: Primarily mandatory.
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any other questions?
14 Discussion? Commission's pleasure?
15 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, I move the
16 approval of this recommendation.
17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Second.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. Any other
19 discussion? All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you very
20 much, Dr. Harvey.
21 Rigs to reef.
22 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
23 adopts new 31 TAC 57.920-57-921 as published
24 in the April 28, 2000, issue of the
25 Texas Register."
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1 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9: ACTION - BRIEFING - RIGS TO REEFS.
2 (WHEREUPON, a briefing item was presented to
3 the commissioners after which, the following
4 proceedings were had:)
5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: ACTION - MLD/TTT WORKGROUP UPDATE.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: The next item is the MLD/TTT
7 workgroup update, which Jerry Cooke is going to do for us.
8 Before he gets under way, I would just like to say
9 that I appreciate the time and energy that so many private
10 citizens put into -- to this effort in coming to Austin for
11 two meetings, both of which lasted all day. And I think the
12 indicator of the interest level and commitment to this is
13 evidenced by -- out of -- I believe there were 17 members of
14 the committee that were from the private sector, and -- and
15 then plus a few people from the Department. But I've seen
16 five of those here this morning, and that's an extraordinary
17 level of commitment.
18 And I know David Langford is here. John Jefferson
19 is here. Dr. James Crow is here. Tom Vanderveer is -- has
20 been here all morning. And I saw Robert Saunders earlier, I
21 believe. There he is.
22 But, anyway, I appreciate you now making at least
23 three trips to Austin to help -- help on this effort.
24 So with that, Dr. Cooke, would you walk us through
25 where we are?
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1 DR. COOKE: Yes, sir. And thanks for that
2 comment.
3 One thing that Chairman Bass did not mention -- I'm
4 sorry. I'm Jerry Cooke, Program Director for Upland Wildlife
5 Ecology, presenting this agenda item for you.
6 One thing that Chairman Bass didn't point out is
7 that the committee voluntarily asked that they be kept
8 together to meet again next year to help us review the
9 implementation of these two programs and to help us work
10 through any refinements that may need to be done at a future
11 date.
12 The primary solution to both of the -- or most of
13 the concerns for these two programs was really
14 straight-forward.
15 The recommendation of the workgroup - and,
16 certainly, we agree with this recommendation - is that both
17 of these programs should be incentive-driven and
18 habitat-focused. This is relatively simple thing to
19 implement by simply recognizing that progress on a management
20 plan will be considered positive so long as the habitats are
21 stable or improving. Fairly straight-forward.
22 Yesterday, the regulations committee granted
23 permission of staff to public the TTT proclamation for public
24 comment, which we'll be gathering over the next several
25 months. And we'll bring it back before you, again, in
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1 August. And there really will be no other part of this
2 presentation that will deal with that program.
3 Within the MLD program, a landowner who has current
4 census data and an approved wildlife management plan may
5 select Option 1 for taking antlerless only permits.
6 That land owner will have the bag limit and the
7 season that's assigned in that county by this Commission,
8 although, antlerless permits, under this program, can be used
9 for bonus tags throughout the season.
10 If a landowner chooses to select Option No. 2 within
11 the MLD program and he has at least one year of previous and
12 current census data, one immediately previous year of harvest
13 data and agrees to implement two habitat management practices
14 on their property, that landowner would have available to
15 them a five-deer bag, no more than three bucks for their
16 hunters.
17 The buck season would open with the county and close
18 the last Sunday in January on that property. For antlerless
19 deer, the season would begin the Saturday nearest
20 September 30. It says October 1 there on the screen, but
21 we're going to go with out standard language in our
22 proclamation there and will extend through the last Sunday in
23 January. Bonus tags may be used with any permits on those
24 properties.
25 If the landowner chooses to go with Option 3 in the
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1 managed land deer permit program, has at least two years of
2 previous and current census data, at least two previous years
3 of harvest data and agrees to implement four habitat
4 management practices on the property, the hunters on that
5 tract of land would have a five-deer bag limit, no more than
6 three bucks. Any deer may be taken on that property from the
7 Saturday nearest September 30th through the last Sunday in
8 January, and bonus tags could be used on all of those
9 permits.
10 Also, a three-year window for both Option 2 and
11 Option 3 would be approved. In other words, when they
12 entered the program, they would be approved for three years;
13 they know when their future is. And renewal of that
14 three-year window would be contingent on their progress and
15 on their management plan.
16 There is always a rush to get permits from us
17 immediately before a hunting season, and this is always the
18 busiest time of year for our field staff. But we would
19 recommend to include in this proclamation, in this portion of
20 the proclamation, that if a landowner were to apply on or
21 before August 15, that we could guarantee them review in
22 their permits before October 1. If it's later than that,
23 bets are pretty well off, because of other commitments.
24 Also, there will be times when management practices
25 simply can't be accomplished. Droughts will prevent
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1 controlled burns. Extremely good habitat conditions could
2 affect the ability to harvest, et cetera. And we certainly
3 recognize those. And only those -- only those practices that
4 can be accomplished would be reviewed and evaluated.
5 There will be times when a landowner simply chooses
6 not to continue a management practice or several management
7 practices on their property, and other options within the
8 program would be available to them upon their request.
9 Also, rarely, there will be times when there will be
10 flagrant violations of the program. Over harvest is an
11 example. And the committee's recommendation would be that if
12 a permit were denied under these circumstances that they not
13 be allowed to reapply for the program for three years.
14 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Excuse me. Could you go
15 back to that last slide?
16 DR. COOKE: I'll try. Yes.
17 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you. Excellent.
18 The first entry, the last word, I think it would be more
19 accurate to say October 1 decision.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Or response.
21 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Yes, or response, so that
22 it doesn't imply you will approve all of them that are
23 submitted.
24 DR. COOKE: Yes, ma'am. I believe that
25 actually the word in the proclamation is "review."
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1 Sorry. I didn't mean to confuse that issue, but
2 thank you for pointing it out.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good catch.
4 DR. COOKE: Staff recommends that the Parks and
5 Wildlife Commission adopt the 2001 statewide hunting and
6 fishing proclamation Sections 65.25 and 65.26 with changes to
7 the proposal as published in the March 3rd, 2000 issue of the
8 Texas Register.
9 And if there are other questions, I would be happy
10 to try to entertain them now.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any comments prior to public
12 comment? We do have some speakers on this.
13 James Crow, would you come forward? And Dave
14 Langford, if you would be ready to come up next.
15 MR. CROW: Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good morning.
17 MR. CROW: It was an honor to participate in
18 that.
19 Before we get going, our membership wanted us to
20 express our congratulations to Commissioner Dinkins, and that
21 we're very proud of you.
22 And, also, they wanted me to tell Commissioner Ryan
23 how good it is to see him, and we wish for your continued
24 recovery.
25 About approximately a year ago, I stood before you
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1 in regard to the scientific breeder regs and said that the
2 process worked and thanked you for it.
3 This time I'm standing before you saying, once
4 again, the process worked, and I really appreciate everything
5 you've done. And I thank every one of you, especially
6 Chairman Bass, for everything that was accomplished.
7 I also want to thank my friend and colleague, Andy
8 Sansom and Bob Cook and Jerry Cooke and Officer Sinclair for
9 everything they did. We really do appreciate it. And we
10 offer our enthusiastic support for these proposals, and we
11 look forward to working with you in the future on other
12 issues, notably low fence small private lands, as well. So
13 we thank you very much.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. David Langford.
15 And Don Frels, if you would be prepared to speak next.
16 MR. LANGFORD: Morning, again, Mr. Chairman.
17 I'm David Langford, Texas Wildlife Association. I would also
18 like to echo Dr. Crow's regards to Vice-Chairman Dinkins and
19 to Commissioner Ryan.
20 You know, this deal is another example of the fact
21 that the last easy thing I ever did in my life was graduate
22 from high school. I don't know where we got off track with
23 these permits a year or so ago, and I don't know why it took
24 so long to get us back on track, and I don't know why it was
25 so hard to get us back on track. But it all succeeded and we
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1 got through it.
2 I would like to thank everybody for keeping their
3 focus on the two most important things, which is habitat and
4 the future of hunting. So the Texas Wildlife Association
5 would like to urge support of the staff recommendation, and
6 also urge continuation of the committee so that we can
7 address anything that might come up during the implementation
8 steps and tweak it, as we might need to.
9 A lot of times, regardless of how hard everybody
10 works, sometimes there are unattended consequences, and we
11 would like the opportunity to address these should those
12 occur. Thank you very much.
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Don Frels. And
14 Mr. Gilleland, if you would be prepared to speak next.
15 MR. FRELS: Commissioners, Mr. Sansom, I'm
16 speaking here today as President of the Texas Wildlife
17 Management Council.
18 Texas Wildlife Management Council is a private
19 organization made up of wildlife biologists, wildlife
20 technicians, secretaries and retirees of the Texas Parks and
21 Wildlife Department.
22 And at our meeting in Tyler, the staff of the
23 Council requested that we make a statement to Mr. Sansom
24 concerning the issuance of these permits. And so a number of
25 our people got together and prepared a statement and sent it
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1 to Andy on May the 17th. And they also asked me to read this
2 into the record of the Commission meeting. So that's the
3 reason I'm here today, as President of that organization.
4 The Texas Wildlife Management Council is an
5 organization founded by professionals in the field of
6 wildlife management and ecology. And as directed by the
7 organization's by-laws, we actively work towards the wide use
8 and management of the natural resources of Texas.
9 TWMC recognizes the fact that Texas is a
10 privately-owned state in so much as approximately 97 percent
11 of the land in Texas is held by private landowners. It is
12 apparent that if the natural resources of this state are to
13 be conserved for future generations of Texans then the
14 private landowners are now and will continue to be the
15 stewards of these resources.
16 Members TWMC are activity engaged in providing
17 technical assistance to private landowners in order to help
18 assure the proper management of publicly-owned wildlife
19 populations occurring in privately-owned habitats for the
20 benefit of all our citizens.
21 We provide management plans with recommendations
22 that stress the importance of maintaining and developing
23 habitat that is beneficial for all wildlife species, be they
24 designated as game or non-game species.
25 We believe that native habitat is the essential key
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1 in maintaining healthy and diverse ecosystems and that the
2 private landowners in Texas hold this key.
3 We recognize that all wildlife species, especially
4 game species, provide a substantial additional income to
5 landowners; however, the economic value of wildlife cannot
6 supersede the value of good native habitat.
7 We believe that good native habitat should be
8 defined as healthy and diverse plant communities that exhibit
9 no more than moderate utilization of key plant species.
10 We believe that native habitats maintained in this
11 condition will be beneficial to all wildlife species and
12 still provide the additional income required by many Texas
13 landowners.
14 In conclusion, it is our belief that the majority of
15 landowners in Texas understand the value of habitat
16 management and the benefits to be derived for both the
17 resources and the traditional and non-traditional user.
18 We further believe that these landowners will
19 actively improve the conditions of the habitat if given
20 guidance in the form of sound, biological recommendations.
21 We, therefore, urge Texas Parks and Wildlife to
22 include native habitat as the cornerstone of any permit
23 program offered to landowners, whether these permits are for
24 game, non-game or for rare and threatened species. Thank
25 you.
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1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much. Since
2 that is a part -- Mr. Frels, since basically that is integral
3 in the findings of where we are, I assume that your
4 organization supports the proposal today?
5 MR. FRELS: Yes, sir.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
7 MR. FRELS: We just wanted -- the staff just
8 wanted to make sure that habitat was a cornerstone.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: I think the committee agreed.
10 MR. FRELS: Okay. Very good.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
12 Mr. Gilleland?
13 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis Gilleland,
14 speaking for Texas Animals.
15 First thing I would like to say is discussion with
16 Chairman Kuempel yesterday, we discussed this. And, first
17 of all, you have not published your changes. The only thing
18 that's been published is March the 3rd, Texas Register. I
19 have it right here, and that's what I'm addressing.
20 You have not published the changes which you say
21 have occurred in your staff recommendation, so you cannot
22 legally publish those without giving the public notice on
23 that. If you do, they will be contested. They can be
24 contested. So we have to deal with what we have in the 3
25 March, Texas Register.
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1 I would like to refer to the statement by
2 Director Sansom in the 31 May, Austin American Statesman.
3 Director Sansom says, "TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION --
4 97 percent of Texas land is owned by private landowners,
5 which means the future of the wildlife that all Texans love
6 is in private hands."
7 Well, the thing that Mr. Kuempel doesn't understand,
8 and apparently you people do not understand either, is the
9 fact that while 97 percent of the land may, in fact, be in
10 private hands, the wildlife for the last 10 million years has
11 not been in private hands. And it's only through your
12 practices and your incentives that you have now privatized
13 the wildlife to be commensurate with the privatized aspect of
14 the land.
15 That is new. The high fences are new. And it's not
16 something that's been going on forever.
17 The second thing I would like to say is the people
18 on this Commission -- they are engaged in Level 3. Level 3
19 is not even mentioned here, and neither is Level 1 or 2, for
20 that matter.
21 The people on this Commission that are involved in
22 Level 3, if you read the Texas Register, you'll know what
23 Level 3 is. That's where the big buck high-priced
24 white-tailed deer behind high fences are.
25 The four people on this Commission should recuse
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1 themselves from voting, because you people are monetarily
2 involved. The four of you know who you are. The four of you
3 are monetarily involved in Level 3 exploitation of Texas
4 bucks behind Texas high fences. So I ask that you recuse
5 yourself.
6 I know of four, maybe five of you. That's a quorum.
7 I think that's unethical and may even be illegal.
8 What is Level 3? Level 3 in the March 31 Texas
9 Register says, "Level 3. Level 3 managed land, deer permits
10 authorize the take of buck and antlers, white-tailed deer as
11 specified by permit." That's open ended.
12 You and Mr. Sansom can make the permit whatever you
13 want. You can specify a million 25-point deer or whatever
14 you want, make it million point deer, as specified in the
15 permit. You do not limit or say what the permit can specify
16 per the Texas Register.
17 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, Mr. Gilleland. Your
18 time is up. Thank you very much.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: That concludes the public
20 comment.
21 MR. GILLELAND: I would like to ask for extra
22 time.
23 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, Mr. Gilleland. Your
24 time is up.
25 MR. GILLELAND: Three minutes is not enough
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1 time to address something of this magnitude. The other
2 people have had additional time. I would like to have one or
3 two more.
4 MR. SANSOM: Thank you very much.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Jefferson?
6 MR. JEFFERSON: Were you about to say that that
7 concludes public comment?
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: I did. But did you sign up?
9 MR. JEFFERSON: I filled out a form, as
10 specified.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: I failed to find your sheet.
12 Would you please come forward and give us your comments. My
13 oversight, I'm sure
14 MR. JEFFERSON: I will certainly excuse you for
15 that, Mr. Chairman, as I commend you for calling this
16 committee together. I think that was a very wise decision on
17 your part.
18 My name is John Jefferson. I'm Executive Director
19 of the Texas Chapter for Wildlife Society. Also, I want to
20 commend Mr. Sansom and rest of the staff for adopting this
21 vehicle for addressing this situation.
22 I particularly want to commend Bob Cook, although he
23 sent me a fax to the wrong address that cost me seven dollars
24 to receive, but Bob -- Bob steered that committee through
25 some treacherous waters in a very diplomatic fashion.
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1 The entire staff, Dr. Cook, Dr. Graham, also, did an
2 awful lot to inform us of what the issues were and to help us
3 to make this decision.
4 I heard a comment about a -- from a previous
5 wildlife director that I think pretty well sums up this
6 situation. He once said that the department is sometimes a
7 victim of its own success. And I really think that's what
8 this permit situation is all about.
9 The technical guidance biologists working throughout
10 the State have done an exemplary manner of educating the
11 public on white-tailed deer management statewide, but
12 particularly in South Texas. And I think that may have led
13 to some of our problems.
14 This probably all began with Al Brothers, who was
15 the first technical guidance biologist to work in south
16 Texas. When he resigned to go to work for the Zachary
17 Ranches, Murphy Ray took his place.
18 Allen Murphy collaborated on the Randmark book,
19 "Producing Quality White-Tailed Deer," which is considered
20 the Bible in Texas, particularly south Texas, and is also
21 recognized nationwide.
22 After Al came on, Larry Weishuhn. He was followed
23 by Ernie Davis. When Ernie resigned, Jimmy Rutledge took his
24 place, and Jimmy is the current technical guidance biologist
25 for south Texas.
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1 If there were a Hall of Fame for guidance
2 biologists, these guys would be in it.
3 Don Frels spoke before. He was the regional
4 director down there, and he's had a big hand in it.
5 The more that landowners learned, it seemed like the
6 more tools they wanted. And many think that we're
7 over-managing white-tailed deer, but that's where we are, and
8 I think that's what this permit discussion has all been
9 about.
10 At our meeting, though, as one of the technical
11 guidance biologist, Fielding Harwell, pretty much diffused
12 the bomb. When it came his turn to speak, Fielding said,
13 "This is what I can live with." He set it out. And it's --
14 it gave us a good outline.
15 Tom Vanderverr is here, an attorney from Austin and
16 a landowner. Tom also helped lead us through this with some
17 of his correspondence. And I just want to say that the Texas
18 Chapter supports this as long as your discussions continue to
19 be based on wildlife habitat conservation and the continued
20 public ownership of wildlife, the Texas Chapter of Wildlife
21 Society will continue to enthusiastically support your
22 decisions. Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Jefferson. With
24 that, we've concluded the public comment. And Dr. Cooke, do
25 you have any comments?
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1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: What about a
2 clarification on the publication, since it was raised?
3 DR. COOKE: At your April meeting, we were
4 reviewing the statewide hunting and fishing proclamation. At
5 that time, the Commission chose not to act on that portion of
6 the regulations that we're discussing now. So those two
7 sections remained open, following the adoption of the
8 remainder of the statewide hunting and fishing proclamation.
9 So your action is completely consistent with administrative
10 law.
11 And so that is why the wording of the motion was
12 specifically to these two sections of the proclamation.
13 Also --
14 MR. SANSOM: Because it had been previously
15 published?
16 DR. COOKE: It had been previously published.
17 Also, it is my understanding, not being a lawyer,
18 but it is my understanding that so long as a section is
19 opened, the public is placed on notice of potential changes
20 to that section. So any amendments, so long as it doesn't
21 include new groups or areas not previously discussed within
22 the section, is certainly within your authority.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: The modifications, therefore,
24 do not require re-publishing?
25 DR. COOKE: Correct.
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1 CHAIRMAN BASS: One comment I had, that since
2 we are, as part of this, instituting some deadline dates,
3 both the TTT that we're posting as of yesterday's action and
4 in this proposed action, that it might be a good idea to send
5 notice to the users of these permits summarizing what the
6 changes in the programs are and putting them on notice that
7 there are some deadline dates in order to have the review
8 assured. That's something for you to consider.
9 DR. COOKE: Correct. The landowners can apply
10 for these permits right up to the last day of the hunting
11 season.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Right.
13 DR. COOKE: But as we said before, what we are
14 assuring the public is for review. It will certainly be
15 covered in news releases --
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Exactly. Currently -- my
17 suggestion is that current holders or previous holders of
18 these permits maybe get a notice of what the changes in the
19 program are and that there are now some deadline dates for
20 assured review within a prescribed period of time, so that --
21 DR. COOKE: We'll do our best.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: That's kind of so they're not
23 caught.
24 DR. COOKE: Certainly, all of these individuals
25 who have approved wildlife management plans are working with
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1 our field staff on these things. But we will concern make
2 every effort.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: I know. Any further comment?
4 Motion?
5 COMMISSIONER WATSON: I so move.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Second?
7 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Second.
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. All in
9 favor? Any opposed? Thank you very much.
10 "The Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the
11 2000-2001 Statewide Hunting and Fishing
12 Proclamation 65.25 and 65.26 with changes to
13 the proposal as published in the March 3,
14 2000 issue of the Texas Register
15 (25 TexReg 1840.)"
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: That brings us to Item 13,
17 regional grant funding. Mr. Hogsett?
18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 13: ACTION - REGIONAL GRANT FUNDING.
19 MR. HOGSETT: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
20 members of the Commission.
21 I'm Tim Hogsett from the State Parks Division. I'm
22 pleased to bring forward to you the recommendations for
23 funding for a new initiative that was created by the
24 legislature in the last session, coming out of the Texas
25 Recreation and Parks account.
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1 We're proposing the funding of four regional park
2 projects through a pilot program that we've developed. We
3 had several applications, and I must commend all of the
4 applicants for putting together packages that were so
5 complete in such a short period of time. They had less than
6 a month to make their presentations to us.
7 All the regional park initiative grew out of a study
8 that was conducted a couple of years ago by Texas A&M
9 University called Texas Outdoors Vision for the Future. One
10 of the things that study noted as a need in Texas were large
11 intensive use parks in the major metropolitan areas or
12 regional park systems and conservation areas that linked
13 through greenways and adequate water resources to provide
14 habitat and water-based recreation.
15 All of these are related to the metropolitan areas.
16 And the theory was that it would take joint cooperative
17 effort, both public and -- public and -- public and private
18 cooperation to make these things happen.
19 The funding that we're proposing to use comes from
20 three sources. The legislature did set aside a million
21 dollars for each of the next two fiscal years, fiscal year
22 2000 and 2001 for this regional parks initiative.
23 We felt that it was important to make really more of
24 a program out of it being a pilot project. So we have chosen
25 to recommend funding in the amount of a million dollars be
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1 taken from our allocation of the Federal Land and Water
2 Conservation funds, and that's about half of the available
3 Land and Water Conservation funds. And the final million,
4 we're recommending we take from the unused portion of our
5 facility transfer program.
6 The four projects briefly that I will highlight for
7 you that we're recommending funding for, all in the amount of
8 $750,000, which in every case is slightly less than they
9 requested: Williamson County has cooperated with several
10 municipalities and other units of government in the
11 preparation of a county-wide plan for trail linkage. They
12 have chosen to submit an application for Brushy Creek Trail.
13 The partners involved in this initiative are, of
14 course, Williamson County, cities of Round Rock, Cedar Park,
15 and then there are three other special districts that are
16 involved in the project.
17 The specific project that they are proposing is the
18 development of an approximately two-mile corridor along
19 Brushy Creek. Eventually, the entire length of the trail
20 would run from Cedar Park to the western edge of the City of
21 Round Rock.
22 One of the most important elements of this project
23 is the development -- is the donation by a private developer
24 of 50 acres of land, which they are using as a part of their
25 local match.
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1 This is a view of part of the trail corridor.
2 The next project that we're recommending is the El
3 Paso County River Trail. This is a cooperative between the
4 City of El Paso and El Paso County.
5 Eventually, plans call for a trail that would be in
6 excess of 50 miles, all the way from the New Mexico/Texas
7 border to east of the City of El Paso, along the Rio Grande
8 River.
9 This particular project, the county is proposing to
10 develop approximately nine miles of that trail, starting at
11 the New Mexico border. And it also involves the linkage of a
12 couple of existing county parks that are also along the Rio
13 Grande River corridor. And here are a couple of shots.
14 Obviously, the importance of water in El Paso as a
15 recreational resource can't be understated.
16 The City of McAllen recently acquired a piece of
17 property known as the Quinta Mazatlan. It was a 1930s
18 vintage adobe house and quite substantial grounds. They
19 propose to develop that into a nature center, which would
20 also be serving as the McAllen wing of the World Birding
21 Center.
22 They're proposing renovation of the building and
23 associated grounds work, things such as the development of an
24 outdoor classroom. There is an old -- yeah, an old green
25 house. Thank you.
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1 There is an old green house on the site that they
2 propose to use as a butterfly conservatory. It's just a
3 magnificent piece of property, and the City was very
4 fortunate to be able to acquire it. It will be a very
5 popular birding site, and that activity is already occurring.
6 In addition, they are going to acquire three acres of
7 land of native grass habitat that's adjacent to the Quinta
8 Mazatlan grounds.
9 And the final project that we're recommending is
10 Houston Braes Bayou Greenbelt. It is a cooperative
11 effort between the City of Houston and the Harris County
12 Flood Control District. This will be the first time Harris
13 County Flood Control District, as a part of one of their
14 projects, will do a very environmentally-sensitive flood
15 control project.
16 What this particular project proposes is the
17 development of an area along this trail, corridor, which goes
18 from the west side of Loop 610 all the way to the Houston
19 ship channel. The particular area is called Willow Water
20 Hole, and it will be the development of an enormous piece of
21 property with several lakes, and these will serve the dual
22 purpose of being detention ponds for flood control purposes.
23 And there will be a lot of recreational opportunities
24 provided, as well.
25 Our recommendation is that we fund the four projects
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1 that I just presented to you in the amount of $750,000
2 apiece. And I would be glad to answer any questions.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have seven people that
4 signed up for public comment. And I appreciate their
5 patience with the proceedings, to wait this out.
6 Pix Howell, from Williamson County, if you can come
7 up first. And Bob Wunsch, I believe it is, if you would be
8 prepared to speak next.
9 MR. HOWELL: My name is Pix Howell. I
10 represent Williamson County. I was hired as the Brushy Creek
11 Trail coordinator last August, finally known as the trail
12 boss.
13 I had some other representatives from Williamson
14 County here, and I'm not sure if they had other engagements
15 or all the previous talk about fishing kind of gave them the
16 fever.
17 But this trail was originally envisioned as
18 running -- actually spanning Williamson County. And it
19 became apparent that the corridor between Cedar Park and
20 Round Rock was -- had the most danger of being developed and
21 losing that opportunity. So we focused on that as the first
22 phase.
23 The slide that you saw earlier is basically two
24 miles of what we're going to build with this grant from
25 basically Cedar Park's park project over to Great Oaks, which
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1 is in Brushy Creek MUD.
2 As Tim mentioned, it's a cooperative effort. We
3 have formal resolutions from Cedar Park, City of Round Rock,
4 Brushy Creek MUD, Fern Bluff MUD and the City of Austin to
5 work with this, build it and implement it.
6 I can't tell you how excited we are about this. I
7 feel like with this grant we're going to be able to kick off
8 this first piece that's going to be a showcase for the rest
9 of the trail.
10 We've had, over the last couple of months, other
11 property owners come to us and talk to us about adding their
12 property into it, and that goes east of Round Rock.
13 We've had the LCRA talk to us about doing some
14 primitive trail connections back to the Highland Lakes, and
15 then beyond that, other drainage areas north of Brushy Creek
16 Trail making connections back up into the San Gabriel River
17 basin. So it's going to create a lot of fever for this.
18 And we really appreciate your consideration.
19 I'll be happy to answer any questions you might
20 have. And thanks a lot. You guys are tough staying here.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: We get hungry, too.
22 MR. SANSOM: Should have been here yesterday.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Bob Wunsch, if I'm pronouncing
24 that correctly.
25 And Greg Boatright, if you would be prepared to
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1 speak next.
2 MR. WUNSCH: I think Mr. Boatright left.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: All right.
4 MR. WUNSCH: Mr. Chairman and members of the
5 Commission, my name is Bob Wunsch.
6 I'm part of a group that's developing an 18-acre
7 project in north Austin. We're bordered uniquely by Cedar
8 Park, Round Rock and now part of the City of Austin.
9 It's an 1800-acre development, mixed use. And about
10 a year ago, we had the idea of putting some people together
11 at a lunch to kind of talk about this idea. And Williamson
12 County stepped up and hired an excellent consultant and Pix
13 Howell to help lead a group that has now included six
14 municipalities and a private sector to work on what we feel
15 is a shining example of regional corporation that will
16 benefit many generations of Central Texas.
17 The group that I'm involved with will be donating in
18 excess of 130 acres to the overall project, about four total
19 miles of the ultimate project. It will also be contributing
20 up to half a million dollars in funding.
21 My group includes myself, Milburn Homes, former
22 Mayor of Austin, Roy Butler, and Mr. Dick Rathgaver.
23 I would like to thank the Commission for considering
24 this, Mr. Dabney for coming out and seeing our project, for
25 Tim Hogsett and his staff for their hard work that will help
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1 us establish a greenbelt and natural corridor that will
2 connect many communities in one of the fastest-growing
3 counties in the country.
4 I promise we'll be good stewards of the land and
5 we'll use this money wisely. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Mr. Boatright, I
7 assume, has left.
8 MR. WUNSCH: He was the one I was talking
9 about.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Well, tell him we appreciate
11 him hanging in as long as he did.
12 Sally Gavlik. And Charles Nutter, if you would be
13 prepared to speak next.
14 Good morning. Afternoon, I should say.
15 MS. GAVLIK: Morning. Afternoon. I'm Sally
16 Gavlik. I'm the El Paso County Parks and Recreation
17 director, and we very much want to tell you how much we
18 appreciate this grant allocation.
19 The river park development has actually been a
20 vision of El Paso County and the residents since 1925. We're
21 just a little slow on getting things developed. But the
22 river and the trail system will mean a great deal to the
23 county residents.
24 We have actually have the cities of Anthony, Vinton
25 and Canutilla who are working together with us on a
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1 particular portion of the project, and we will be working
2 with the cities of Socorro, Faden and Tornillo later on the
3 project.
4 When it's completed, it will be 42 miles in length.
5 And we also have the possibility of working with the City of
6 Las Cruces and taking the project into New Mexico. And we
7 very much appreciate this, and thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Mr. Nutter?
9 And Javier Mendez, if you would be prepared to speak
10 next.
11 MR. NUTTER: Thank you. Oh, well. Charles
12 Nutter, Director of the City of El Paso Parks and Recreation
13 Department, and we're in consortium with the county on this
14 project.
15 Actually, this seems to be the right thing at the
16 right time, because a year and a half ago the Department of
17 Interior declared the Rio Grande River as an American
18 Heritage river. And at that time we started having meetings
19 of the Rio Grande Task Force, which consists of over 12
20 public agencies and about 15 community agencies in the El
21 Paso area.
22 We've been meeting for about a year and a half and
23 have had great plans, but we have not been able to get
24 anything underway yet until this grant came along. And then
25 a city bond issue which we passed less than a month ago, a 75
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1 million dollar bond issue for parks and recreation. And
2 included in that is a million dollars for this riverfront
3 park and these trails and bicycle trails along.
4 We do have the capability of extending this out
5 virtually as far as you can imagine. The City of Las Cruces
6 and Sunland Park in New Mexico already have parks and trails
7 on the river. We plan to link up with that.
8 We purchased, three months ago, the first city and
9 park that's actually on the Rio Grande River. We're going to
10 develop that, and it's going to be a major access point for
11 this trail.
12 So on behalf of the City and the county and all the
13 other agencies that are involved in this, including the
14 International Boundary and Water Commission, I want to thank
15 you. And we appreciate very much your consideration, and Tim
16 Hogsett's work on this and everybody's support.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Mr. Mendez?
18 Mr. Gilleland, if you would like to speak, you may.
19 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis Gilleland,
20 representing Texas Animals. My comment on this is I would
21 like to direct your attention to two phases, two aspects of
22 your mission.
23 No. 1 is wildlife and the second is parks, promoting
24 people. So you're basically dealing with people and animals,
25 people and wildlife. You have four projects here. All four
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1 of them are for people.
2 Three million dollars, whatever it is, for people,
3 corridors, trails. Fine. I have no objection to those.
4 They might be worthy.
5 But I would like to turn the clock back several
6 meetings when I told you about the Houston toad, the
7 endangered Houston toads and Bastrop State Park. They were
8 killed needlessly because of your golf course expansion. I
9 asked you to construct tunnels under Highway 95, because the
10 Houston toads, endangered toads, are on the east side of
11 Highway 95 and the breeding grounds are on the west side of
12 Highway 95.
13 I asked you to build corridors under trails, toad
14 tunnels, call them what you will, to make an aperture under
15 those highways -- under that highway for these toads to breed
16 on the west side of Highway 95. I even gave you a handout on
17 it. And it's even come to the forefront again in the recent
18 five articles published in our local rag.
19 So I would ask you, flip a coin or do whatever you
20 want and select one of the four projects and kill it. You
21 all know how to kill things. Kill one of these four projects
22 and take those monies and plug into a contract with several
23 more -- and not sole source, but with several contractors
24 bidding and build whatever tunnels, whether you or DOT come
25 up with, are appropriate for those toads to get under that
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1 highway and let these toads go breed in that pond on the west
2 side, please.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: That concludes the public
4 comments. Any discussion or questions from the Commission?
5 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I would like to vote
6 approval of the recommendation as presented.
7 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Second.
8 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: A motion and a second. Any
10 further discussion? All in favor? Opposed?
11 Motion carries. Thank you very much.
12 (Motion carries unanimously.)
13 "Grant funding for Regional parks in the
14 amount of $3,000,000 is approved for the
15 projects as shown at Exhibit A, for the
16 projects as shown in the individual project
17 descriptions at Exhibit B. These projects
18 will be administered using the rules for the
19 Texas Recreation and Parks Account grant
20 program."
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Sansom, do we have any
22 other business to come before the Commission today?
23 MR. SANSOM: No, sir, we do not.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: We stand adjourned. Thank you
25 very much.
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1
2 ___________________________
Lee M. Bass, Chairman
3
4 ___________________________
Katharine Armstrong Idsal
5
6 ___________________________
Carol E. Dinkins, Vice Chair
7
8 ___________________________
Ernest Angelo, Jr.
9
10 ___________________________
John Avila, Jr.
11
12 ___________________________
Alvin L. Henry
13
14 ___________________________
Nolan Ryan
15
16 ___________________________
Mark E. Watson, Jr.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF TEXAS )
2 COUNTY OF TRAVIS )
3 I, RHONDA HOWARD, a Certified Court Reporter in and for
4 the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and
5 foregoing pages constitute a full, true and correct
6 transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
7 Commission on June 1, 2000, in the Commission hearing room of
8 the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin,
9 Travis County, Texas.
10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record was made by
11 me at the time of the public meeting, and said stenographic
12 notes were thereafter reduced to computerized transcription
13 under my supervision and control.
14 WITNESS MY HAND this the 10th day of July, 2000.
15
Expiration date: 12-31-00
16 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220
17 Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557
18
19
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