Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Ad Hoc Infrastructure Committee

November 17, 1999

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744


        8                BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on 

        9     the 17th day of November 1999, there came on 

       10     to be heard matters under the regulatory 

       11     authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission 

       12     of Texas, in the commission hearing room of 

       13     the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters 

       14     complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas, 

       15     beginning at 11:25 a.m. to wit:

                   CHAIR:     John Avila, Jr.
       19                     Lee M. Bass
                              Ernest Angelo, Jr. 
       20                     Carol E. Dinkins
                              Dick Heath (absent)
       21                     Alvin L. Henry (absent)
                              Katharine Armstrong Idsal
       22                     Nolan Ryan
                              Mark E. Watson, Jr.
       25     Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director



        1                    NOVEMBER 17, 1999

        2              MORNING SESSION:  11:25 a.m.

        3                        * * * * *


        5                        * * * * *

        6                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  Thank you 

        7     and we'll move now to the infrastructure.

        8                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I call to 

        9     order the meeting of the Ad Hoc Infrastructure 

       10     Committee.  And we will start with a motion -- 

       11     a request for a motion for approval of the 

       12     minutes from our last meeting.

       13                COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So move.

       14                COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Second.

       15                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I have a 

       16     motion and a second.  All those in favor say 

       17     aye.  Opposed?  Motion carries. 

       18          (Motion passed unanimously.)


       20     STATUS REPORT.

       21                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I'll hear a 

       22     briefing from Mr. Patton. 

       23                MR. PATTON:  Mr. Chairman, 

       24     Committee Members, my name for the record is 

       25     Dan Patton.  I'm the director of the 



        1     infrastructure division.  Today we'll be 

        2     giving a quick briefing on the Capital 

        3     Program, and then we have an action item at 

        4     the end of it.

        5          (Brief pause - technical difficulties.)

        6                MR. PATTON:  All right.  Let's move 

        7     on.  We'll be talking about the Capital 

        8     Programs, some upcoming projects as we like to 

        9     talk about in some of our program highlights.  

       10     As you know, we are well into our bond 

       11     program.  We've got two issues today of $30 

       12     million.  We're looking at our next issue in 

       13     January or February of another $20 million.  

       14          The '98 bond issue of $12 million which 

       15     was issued last March is well underway.  We've 

       16     completed over 47 projects, which is more than 

       17     50 percent of our total 91 projects.  All of 

       18     our projects are in some phase of design or 

       19     construction.  

       20          FY '99 bond program of $18 million issued 

       21     this past January, 142 projects, we've got 

       22     almost half of them in design.  We've 

       23     completed six of them to date.  So we're very 

       24     confident of our progress in this area, too. 

       25          Last year, fiscal year, we had a goal of 



        1     about $18 million to spend over that period.  

        2     We exceeded that by a million already.  We 

        3     moved our goal up to $20 million this year, 

        4     and as you can see, we're already well ahead 

        5     of that projection for total expenditures. 

        6          As I mentioned, we've got -- y'all 

        7     approved the Capital Program for FY 2000 last 

        8     session.  This is how it breaks out:  A $50 

        9     million program, $21 million is major repair, 

       10     20 of that was that bond that will be issued 

       11     in February.  A lot of this has already 

       12     started. 

       13          The FY 2000 Bond Program:  $20 million, 

       14     which we anticipate will be issued in February 

       15     of 2000.  We've already met with the TPFA for 

       16     our initial presentation.  They have approved 

       17     expenditures or authorization of this bond 

       18     program. 

       19          Next step will go to Bond Review Board in 

       20     December.  We have just -- what I'm showing 

       21     you here is a total of 127 projects and the 

       22     breakdown for each one of those.

       23          When this money is issued, we'll have 

       24     over $90 million and over 600 active projects 

       25     that we'll be tracking as a division.  And as 



        1     I mentioned, this is just some highlights of 

        2     projects that are going on around the state.  

        3     As you travel out there to some of our Parks 

        4     and Wildlife management areas, fisheries, 

        5     please stop by and talk with our staff and see 

        6     what's going on out there.  This is also in 

        7     your package. 

        8          Also, I want to take a few minutes just 

        9     to highlight some specific projects.  When you 

       10     go out to Fort Davis at Indian Lodge, we have 

       11     about $750,000 worth of work going on out 

       12     there.  We're renovating some work.  We have a 

       13     force account crew out there.  They are -- in 

       14     these slides here, you can see them doing some 

       15     work on the ceilings.  They are actually 

       16     cutting cottonwood strips into lattillas and 

       17     binding them to the ceiling as was originally 

       18     constructed back in the '30's by CCC.  This 

       19     also includes about $500,000 worth of asbestos 

       20     abatement. 

       21          Magoffin House in El Paso -- we've got an 

       22     El Paso contractor working on this removing 

       23     the plaster finish to its original 

       24     configuration.  It's about $100,000.  And that 

       25     is being contracted out. 



        1          You'll get a tour after lunch hopefully 

        2     of our new fitness center that's outside.  

        3     It's significantly complete, other than just 

        4     some additional workout equipment.  I wanted 

        5     to show you that majority of this, about 90 

        6     percent of this was done solely by volunteers 

        7     from this agency.  We've had probably over a 

        8     hundred people show up over the past couple of 

        9     years to help out on this.  So it's been 

       10     time-consuming, but it's more rewarding when 

       11     you see the finished product out there, 

       12     realizing that it was done by mostly 

       13     volunteers. 

       14                MR. SANSOM:  We are going to ask 

       15     y'all after lunch to walk out and take a look 

       16     at the facility.  It began with a surplus 

       17     house from Bergstrom Air Force Base that 

       18     was -- we acquired at no cost the house from 

       19     Bergstrom, and the employees have basically 

       20     built it to what is it today. 

       21                MR. PATTON:  The picture you see up 

       22     top is the preparation, the groundwork.  They 

       23     put in the utilities before the slab was 

       24     poured.  And then the next slide, as Andy 

       25     mentioned, it was a house from the Bergstrom 



        1     Air Force Base.  You can see in the top left 

        2     corner how it was stripped out and its 

        3     condition when we first received it on site.  

        4     It was out of alignment, old materials that 

        5     had to be replaced, just it wasn't a pleasant 

        6     working environment the first few months.  But 

        7     we gutted it, and then now you see the 

        8     finished condition.  The only thing that's not 

        9     current in that picture is we do have a new 

       10     work surface, new floor in that workout area 

       11     on the right-hand side.  It's a rubberized 

       12     material that it will make it easy on the 

       13     aerobics class and the free weight groups.  So 

       14     we're in good shape.

       15          We also have showers, men's and women's  

       16     showers in the rest rooms, three per side, 

       17     plus a handicapped shower for the men and 

       18     women's rest room.  And you can see the work 

       19     that was done there. 

       20          And then moving on back to our field 

       21     customers.  We did some work down in Galveston 

       22     Island State Park.  This was a $1.8 million 

       23     wetland restoration, and it's a grant funded 

       24     field project.  We're just leading the 

       25     contract and construction administration, 



        1     working out with the field staff on this 

        2     project. 

        3                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  The grant is 

        4     growing.  I looked at it.  It's looking good.

        5                MR. PATTON:  And leading into your 

        6     trip for your retreat on Thursday, at 

        7     Commissioner Dinkin's request, we've set up a 

        8     tour of the site, the work that's going on out 

        9     there with the force account crew.  Our 

       10     project manager, construction manager will be 

       11     on site to lead you through that with the 

       12     customer and give you some background.  I 

       13     think the architect will also be out there and 

       14     talk about the historical significance, the 

       15     work that was done by CCC and how we've worked 

       16     to replicate what they did. 

       17          Any questions on the Capital Program? 

       18          We've got an action item that I'd like to 

       19     move into, if that's okay.

       20                COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Dan, let me ask 

       21     you about the ADA deal.  When this project is 

       22     completely over, how many facilities you think 

       23     we're going to have that still aren't ADA 

       24     approved?

       25                MR. PATTON:  That's a little hard 



        1     for me to address right now.

        2                COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Will there be 

        3     quite a few?

        4                MR. PATTON:  There's still quite a 

        5     few.  We have been working with the ADA 

        6     community.  That was asked at actually at the 

        7     TPFA board meeting.  They asked will this 

        8     money address all of your ADA requirements.  I 

        9     said -- I was honest with them -- I said it 

       10     wouldn't.  We've identified five -- in the TF 

       11     report that was done three years ago, we 

       12     identified about $5 million of critical ADA 

       13     needs.  We're funding about 4 and a half 

       14     million of those through this program. 

       15          What we're trying to do is reach a 

       16     compromise where we have at least one rest 

       17     room at a state park that's ADA accessible, 

       18     one campsite, or one or two campsites per loop 

       19     and things like that.  And then we'll go in 

       20     with more money, and hopefully in the future 

       21     we're able to identify what those needs are, 

       22     shortfalls are and get more funding.  We just 

       23     didn't have enough money with this bond money 

       24     to go around, address the critical repairs 

       25     plus the ADA needs. 



        1                COMMISSIONER RYAN:  But we will at 

        2     every site have some ADA accessibility.

        3                MR. PATTON:  That's what we're 

        4     working at.  I don't know if I can guarantee 

        5     right now that every site has an ADA 

        6     accessible.  But as we dealt with the video 

        7     conference that Lydia set up and the many 

        8     follow-up meetings that we've had with our 

        9     constituents, we've been focusing on a 

       10     facility ADA access where we look at -- we've 

       11     been looking at parking lots and rest rooms. 

       12          People want trails.  They want the 

       13     interpretive loops and things like that.  So 

       14     it's a much greater need out there than we 

       15     first anticipated.

       16                MR. SANSOM:  And the meaning of 

       17     that is that it really is like a moving 

       18     target.  I mean, it's really not defined.  

       19     It's -- but we -- I think thanks to Dan and 

       20     Lydia and others -- a number of us went up to 

       21     Dallas the other evening to meet with the 

       22     members of the disabled community -- they feel 

       23     pretty good about at least the fact that we're 

       24     making an annual commitment to it of a 

       25     sizeable nature.  And it's showing a 



        1     difference in the facilities. 

        2                COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Well, our focus 

        3     is on rest rooms and parking lots mainly?

        4                MR. PATTON:  That was what it 

        5     originally was, sir, but from these public 

        6     hearings, we've realized that we need to 

        7     expand or at least communicate.  I think each 

        8     one of the divisions had its own ADA focus.  

        9     And what we've tried to do is consolidate 

       10     that, and we do have an ADA committee at the 

       11     agency level that I chair that receives all 

       12     this input. 

       13          But it is getting more into the 

       14     interpretive aspects of it at -- Brazos Bend 

       15     is a prime example.  They want more of that at 

       16     other state parks.  But from a facility 

       17     perspective and infrastructure, we've been 

       18     trying to get them out of the parking lots, 

       19     down the sidewalk to the visitor center, rest 

       20     room, and that's all we've gotten to.  How do 

       21     they get out and enjoy what everybody else is 

       22     enjoying is their perspective.

       23          Any further questions on Capital Program?


       25     CONTRACTS.



        1                MR. PATTON:  The action item we 

        2     have is regarding negotiating contracts.  And 

        3     as I think most of you know, we've had a 

        4     two-year strategy to improve our efficiencies 

        5     and organization in the contracting realm.  We 

        6     sat down with head of our contracting Frank 

        7     Pulis, and Jayna's staff worked together to 

        8     put a strategy together this past legislative 

        9     session to get authority for negotiated 

       10     contracts.  That was referred to as Senate 

       11     Bill 874, and that did pass in session. 

       12          It's two-pronged.  It addresses my 

       13     division in particular as far as negotiated 

       14     contracts with consultants and contractors.  

       15     In our organization, we have what they call a 

       16     design-bid-build format.  It's very 

       17     restrictive when we're trying to get the 600 

       18     plus projects that we're currently managing 

       19     when all that work has to come back into my 

       20     office.  And so what we're trying to do is 

       21     find more efficient ways of outsourcing this 

       22     work.  Construction management, project 

       23     management, design-build are those methods and 

       24     they're referred to as negotiated contracts.  

       25     So that does allow us to do that now. 



        1          The next one was also confirming our 

        2     authority to negotiate or set up agreements 

        3     with other agencies, which already have with 

        4     TxDOT, TDCJ and several other state agencies, 

        5     but this just confirms our authority.

        6                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Dan, let me 

        7     ask this question.  Go back to the other 

        8     slide.  By that, do we mean project 

        9     management, design-build, is that 

       10     design/design-build?

       11                MR. PATTON:  Design-build is one of 

       12     the methods.  There are multiple methods.

       13                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Okay.  And 

       14     construction management.

       15                MR. PATTON:  Construction 

       16     management at risk.

       17                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Construction 

       18     management agent.

       19                MR. PATTON:  Agent.  We just want 

       20     to confirm that we have authority to enter 

       21     into any type of contract we chose in the 

       22     design construction process.

       23                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Which mirrors 

       24     what UT is doing.

       25                MR. PATTON:  UT, private sector, 



        1     federal agencies.  Primarily it's aligned 

        2     after private sector and federal agencies.  

        3     There are some other state agencies that have 

        4     taken this initiative, but we just wanted to 

        5     have that flexibility.

        6                MR. SANSOM:  The way I guess, Dan 

        7     and John, and correct me if I'm wrong, it 

        8     allows us to bundle, you know, functions in 

        9     the construction process which previously we 

       10     would have to get in, rebid out, go through 

       11     procurement again and then go out again.  So 

       12     it expedites our process by allowing us to 

       13     fund individual contracts.

       14                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And it 

       15     leverages the staff of those private companies 

       16     and reduces the staff time of our agency.

       17                MR. PATTON:  Exactly.  And just one 

       18     more clarification in the design-bid-build, 

       19     when we negotiated a contract with a 

       20     consultant, say for an architect or an 

       21     engineer, we can negotiate that contract, but 

       22     then those construction documents, the plans 

       23     and specifications have to come back into our 

       24     office, all hundred to several hundred of 

       25     them, and then we have to publicly bid those 



        1     out.  And so my contracting staff has to 

        2     review all that work, and our professional 

        3     staff has to review all that work and then 

        4     contract out, review the lowest bidder, sign 

        5     another contract and handle that. 

        6          This allows us to enter into a negotiated 

        7     contract up front with one entity, and they 

        8     manage it all the way through the entire 

        9     process with interface with our professional 

       10     staff.

       11                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  It transfers 

       12     the risk to them.

       13                MR. PATTON:  To some extent, yes, 

       14     sir.  Under the terms of 874, it authorized us 

       15     to enter into the contracts as I mentioned, 

       16     and then also negotiate with other federal and 

       17     state governments. 

       18          There are several rules that were -- that 

       19     we have to implement.  They were published in 

       20     the Texas Register on October 15th.  They've 

       21     been published for 30 days.  We have received 

       22     no comments to date, as of November 15th.  

       23     Copies of these proposed rules were furnished 

       24     in your packets.  Hopefully you have those. 

       25          Staff recommends the following motion to 



        1     be adopted.

        2                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Is this a 

        3     candidate for the agenda?

        4                MR. PATTON:  Yes, sir.  I was going 

        5     to recommend it for consent agenda.

        6                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  I have a 

        7     question.  It says in the provision about the 

        8     waiver that the -- when it is determined that 

        9     the work be accomplished by one or more 

       10     selected sources in accordance with 

       11     established approved criteria, where are those 

       12     established approved criteria?

       13                MR. PATTON:  I don't have that in 

       14     front of me.  Is Frank here?  Jayna can defer 

       15     to hers.

       16                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  It's 61.21, 

       17     and it doesn't cross-reference where the 

       18     established criteria are, and I just wondered 

       19     do they exist already?

       20                MR. PATTON:  This is Frank Pulis, 

       21     director of contracting and project controls.

       22                MR. PULIS:  Good morning.  The 

       23     section you're asking a question about is 

       24     actually not a part of the new rule.  That is 

       25     a part of our previous rules.  That is 



        1     authority that Mr. Sansom had as the executive 

        2     director.  Those criteria would be established 

        3     on a case-by-case basis and documented at the 

        4     time we chose to exercise that authority. 

        5          We have not used that authority for 

        6     projects over a hundred thousand.  We've only 

        7     used it for projects under a hundred thousand 

        8     where we have the ability to waive sealed 

        9     bidding and go with selected sources as well. 

       10                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  But an example 

       11     of that would be like University of Texas 

       12     system with the Blanton Museum, the criteria 

       13     was set up where it's -- the firm needs to 

       14     have done some museums and have museum 

       15     experience, must have done a project of $20 

       16     million or larger.  And so you set individual 

       17     criteria for the project so that when we are 

       18     going out -- we're not being restrictive, 

       19     we're just being selective so that we're 

       20     getting an experienced firm for whatever their 

       21     project may be.

       22                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  Who will 

       23     approve the criteria when they are 

       24     established? 

       25                MR. PULIS:  The executive director 



        1     would approve those and it would be a 

        2     case-by-case basis whenever we choose to 

        3     exercise that authority, but the -- that 

        4     authority has not been used to date, and we 

        5     anticipate using the negotiated authority 

        6     which is provided for under Senate Bill 874.  

        7     We think it gives us more flexibility and 

        8     allows us to use the best practices that are 

        9     used in the industry.  We could -- and this 

       10     would take each case for us to establish a 

       11     special situation, outline the criteria and 

       12     run that through the staff here and get the 

       13     executive director's approval to do that, but 

       14     we would still have to bid the work in that 

       15     the intent under this section is although we 

       16     don't bid it in the absolute broad sense, we 

       17     still try to get more competition.  We don't 

       18     go with just one source.  It's a selected 

       19     source.

       20                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  You said in 

       21     the past this has been for under $100,000.

       22                MR. PULIS:  No.  If you'll -- and 

       23     I'm not sure which page it's on in your 

       24     presentation.  Unfortunately, the materials 

       25     you have are just an extract of the rules, and 



        1     the rule I'm referring to is not published in 

        2     your text. 

        3                COMMISSIONER DINKINS:  But it will 

        4     apply or could be used over $100,000.

        5                MR. PULIS:  Yes.  Yes.  This rule 

        6     could be.  We've chosen not to do that in the 

        7     past. 

        8                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Well, it's 

        9     going to apply to anything over $100,000.  

       10     It's going to have to.

       11                MR. PULIS:  The new rules which 

       12     allow for competitive negotiation, yes, sir.  

       13     In fact, it doesn't make sense to even 

       14     consider it on small projects.  You've got to 

       15     be up well over a half million dollars before  

       16     it makes sense.

       17                MR. PATTON:  That was the intent of 

       18     the design-build and the construction 

       19     management.  Large, new centers that we build, 

       20     million dollar projects, that's the efficient 

       21     time to use those.

       22                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And those 

       23     projects that are under a hundred thousand, 

       24     we'll either be doing a force account or still 

       25     competitively bid.



        1                MR. PATTON:  Still contracting 

        2     because we're out in remote sites and we need 

        3     to --

        4                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And you won't 

        5     get the -- won't be a lot of people pursuing 

        6     those in a negotiated fashion.  They just bid 

        7     it.

        8                MR. PATTON:  So the recommendation 

        9     still stands to adopt this motion with it 

       10     being moved to the consent agenda tomorrow.

       11                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Do I have a 

       12     motion? 

       13                COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So move.

       14                COMMISSIONER RYAN:  Second.

       15                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  All those in 

       16     favor.  Opposed?  Motion carries. 

       17          (Motion passed unanimously.)

       18                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Anything else, 

       19     Dan? 

       20                MR. PATTON:  I hope you-all enjoy 

       21     your trip to Caddo and see the work that's 

       22     going on.  It's a great project. 

       23                COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Any other 

       24     questions for the infrastructure? 

       25          Okay.  Then that concludes our meeting of 



        1     the Infrastructure Committee.  



        4                        * * * * *


        6                        * * * * *






















        1                 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE


        3     COUNTY OF TRAVIS     X

        4     THE STATE OF TEXAS   X

        5          I, Rachelle Latino, certified shorthand 

        6     reporter for the State of Texas, do hereby 

        7     certify that the above and foregoing 21 pages 

        8     constitutes a full, true and correct 

        9     transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks 

       10     and Wildlife Commission on November 17, 1999, 

       11     in the commission hearing room of the Texas 

       12     Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, 

       13     Travis County, Texas.

       14          I further certify that a stenographic 

       15     record was made by me at the time of the 

       16     public meeting and said stenographic notes 

       17     were thereafter reduced to computerized 

       18     transcription under my direction and control.

       19          Witness my hand this, the 8th day of 

       20     January 2000.


       23                     Rachelle Latino
                              Certified Shorthand Reporter
       24                     State of Texas
                              Certificate No. 6771
       25                     Expires: 12-31-01