Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing
April 5, 2001
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
6 BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the
7 5TH day of APRIL 2001, there came on to be heard
8 matters under the regulatory authority of the
9 Parks and Wildlife Commission of Texas, in the
10 commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and
11 Wildlife Headquarters complex, Austin, Travis
12 County, Texas, beginning at 9:10 a.m., to wit:
13
14
APPEARANCES:
15 THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
16 Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas, Chairman
Dick W. Heath, Carrollton, Texas
17 Nolan Ryan, Alvin, Texas
Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
18 John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
19 Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
20 Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
21 THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT:
Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other
22 personnel of the Parks and Wildlife Department.
23
24
25
. 0002
1 OTHER APPEARANCES:
2 NAME/ORGANIZATION MATTER OF INTEREST
3 Mr. David Bailey, Traditional Bowhunters of TX,
POB 392, Franklin, TX 77856 #2-ACTION-2001-2001
4 Statewide Hunting & Fishing Proclamation
(nonsupportive)
5
Mr. Paul Hodges, Lone Star Bowhunting Assn,
6 314 Turnstone, Buda, TX 78610
#2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
7 Proclamation (nonsupportive) (youth hunting
proposal)
8
Mr. Kevin Hilbig, Lone Star Bowhunters Assn,
9 4905 FM 535 Cedar Creek, TX
#2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
10 Proclamation (supportive)
11 Mr. Kelly Garmon, 4420 CR 406 Taylor, TX 76574
#2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
12 Proclamation (nonsupportive)
13 Mr. Danny Evans, 1817 Parkside Lane Austin, TX
78745 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting &
14 Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
15 Mr. Tomme Actkinson, Lone Star Bowhunter
Association, 3002 Magnolia Temple, TX 76502
16 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
Proclamation (supportive)
17
Mr. Joseph Simone IV, 8214 Riptide Houston, TX
18 77072 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting &
Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
19
Mr. Joseph Simone III, 8214 Riptide Houston, TX
20 77072 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting &
Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
21
Mr. Ellis Gilleland, Texas Animals, PO Box 9001,
22 Austin, TX 78766 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide
Hunting & Fishing Proclamation (nonsupportive)
23 #5-ACTION-Amendments to the Public Lands
Proclamation and Proposed Hunting Activities on
24 State Parks (nonsupportive) #16-Other Business
(nonsupportive)
25
. 0003
1 Mr. John C. Oneken, PO Box 151, Barker, TX 77413
#2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
2 Proclamation
3 Mr. Walt Glasscock, Texas Sportsmans Association,
408 Shirley Oaks Dr., Columbus, TX 78934
4 #2-ACTION-2001-2001 Statewide Hunting & Fishing
Proclamation
5
Mr. David K. Langford, TWA #2-ACTION-2001-2001
6 Statewide Hunting & Fishing Proclamation
(supportive) #5-ACTION-Amendments to the Public
7 Lands Proclamation and Proposed Hunting Activities
on State Parks
8
Mr. Pete Jamieson, City of Arlington Park &
9 Recreation, PO Box 231 Arlington, TX 76004-0231
10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
10
Mr. Dale Bransford San Antonio Parks and
11 Recreation Dept., PO Box 839966, San Antonio, TX
78283 #10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding
12 (supportive)
13 Mr. Ed Sebesta, League City, City Council
#10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
14
Ms. Rhonda Cyrus, League City Clear Creek Nature
15 Park, 1977 Austin St, League City, TX 77873
#10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
16
Ms. Barbara Meeks, League City Parks Board, 2401
17 Intrepid Way, League City, TX 77573
#10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
18
Ms. Debbie MacDonald, City of League City, 2118
19 Dublindrie, League City, TX 77573
#10-ACTION-Regional Park Funding (supportive)
20
21
22
23
24
25
. 0004
1 APRIL 5, 2001
2 MORNING SESSION:
3 *-*-*-*-*
4 PUBLIC HEARING
5 *-*-*-*-*
6
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good morning.
8 Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to call this
9 meeting of the Texas Parks and Wildlife meeting to
10 order. We have -- Commissioner Ryan is en route
11 but will be here shortly, and we'll go ahead and
12 get started. Mr. Sansom, would you please read
13 our opening statement.
14 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman and
15 members of the Commission, a public notice of this
16 meeting containing all items on its proposed
17 agenda has been filed in the office of the
18 Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of
19 the Government Code. This is referred to as the
20 Open Meetings Law, and I would like for this
21 action to be noted in the official record of the
22 meeting.
23 Ladies and gentlemen, we welcome you
24 here this morning. We are very glad you have come
25 to participate in our commission meetings. As you
. 0005
1 know, the chairman is in charge of the meeting,
2 and I normally assist him in as much as I can.
3 One of my duties is as sergeant at arms.
4 I wanted to remind you that we have
5 sign-up cards out in the hall. And if you wish to
6 speak today, you must sign a card because the
7 chairman will call your names to come forward from
8 the cards one at a time. Each person will be
9 allowed to speak from the podium. And when your
10 name is called, just come to the podium, state
11 your name and whom you represent if it's someone
12 other than yourself.
13 In that we've got a lot of folks
14 here today that would like to speak, the Chairman
15 may also call the second person in line and sort
16 of have you on deck, so, if you would come forward
17 and stand at the back of the audience, then we can
18 move the meeting along in an orderly fashion.
19 Everybody will have three minutes to speak, which
20 is our normal practice. I'll keep track of the
21 time with this kind of traffic clock here and
22 notify you when your three minutes are up.
23 When your time is up, please take
24 your seat again so that others can have an
25 opportunity. If a Commissioner asks you a
. 0006
1 question or if they talk among themselves, then
2 that will not be counted against your three
3 minutes.
4 So one thing that we want to make
5 sure of is that everyone conduct themselves in a
6 professional manner. Because really argumentative
7 or critical comments are not -- have no place in
8 our meetings. So we ask that you show proper
9 respect for our Commissioners, for our staff and
10 for other members of the audience.
11 If you have anything you'd like to
12 submit to the Commissioners for them to look at,
13 please hand it to Ms. Lori Estrada here on my
14 right, and she will make sure that the
15 Commissioners get it. Once again, we appreciate
16 your coming today and look forward to your
17 participation in the meeting.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. The
19 minutes from our previous meeting have been
20 distributed. Are there any comments or
21 corrections from the Commission? Ms. Dinkins, do
22 you have any this time?
23 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Not this time.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: You're usually the
25 one with the sharp eye.
. 0007
1 COMMISSIONER HENRY: They're okay
2 with Carol? Then I'll move.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a motion?
4 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: I'll second.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: A motion and a
6 second. All in favor? Any proposed? Thank you.
7 (Motion passed unanimously.)
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: And also the list of
9 gifts that have been received by the department
10 since our last meeting have been distributed as
11 well. Are there any questions or comments on
12 those or a motion for acceptance?
13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move
14 acceptance.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Have a motion.
16 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Second.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Have a second. All
18 in favor? Hearing none opposed, so move.
19 (Motion passed unanimously.)
20 TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE
(Donors are listed in the following order:
21 Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation)
22 (1)San Jacinto Museum of History Assn; CASH;
Jacinto Battleground SHP
23 (2)San Angelo Chamber of Commerce; Shuttle
Trailer; San Angelo State Park
24 (3)Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation; Lodging,
Meeting Accommodations, Catering; FY99 Student
25 Internship Program
. 0008
1 (4)Galveston Island Convention & Visitors
Bureau; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic
2 (5)Monument Hill & Kreische brewery Docent
Organization; Lights, decorations,
3 refreshments; Trail of Lights and Early German
Christmas
4 (6)Texas Bighorn Society; Radio telemetry
collars; Restoration of desert bighorn sheep
5 (7)March for Parks of Commerce Texas; Lumber,
insulation, windows, doors, hardware;
6 Remodeling of existing shelter
(8)Dow Agrosciences; Glyphomax herbicide NFWF
7 Challenge; Grant criteria
(9)Powell Park Marina; CASH; Sam Rayburn Economic
8 Project
(10)Lufkin Convention Visitors Bureau of the
9 Angelina County Chamber of Commerce; CASH
Sam Rayburn Economic Project
10 (11)The Fishing Schools; CASH; Sam Rayburn
Economic Project
11 (12)Donohue Industries, Inc.; CASH; Sam Rayburn
Economic Project
12 (13)City of Jasper; CASH; Sam Rayburn Economic
Project
13 (14)Angelina County Chamber of Commerce; CASH
Sam Rayburn Economic Project
14 (15)Texas Wildlife Association; Ammunition; Youth
Shooting Sports, Chaparral WMA
15 (16)Texas Parks and Wildlife Foundation; CASH;
Sheldon Lake Environmental Education Center
16 (17)Texas Bighorn Society; Food; Desert Bighorn
Sheep Project
17 (18)Julius & Marilyne Crill Dieckert; Six Sections
of Land; To contribute to outdoor resources
18 (19)Ed Rachal Foundation; Mobile radios &
accessories; Lake Corpus Christi State Park
19 (20)MGM Glass Corporation; Glass display cabinet;
Display wildlife & plants for visitors at
20 Purtis Creek SP
(21)Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas; CASH;
21 Great Texas Birding Classic
(22)John G. & Marei Stella Kenedy Memorial Fund;
22 CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic
(23)Port Aransas COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding
23 Classic
(24)McAllen COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding Classic
24 (25)The Dow Chemical Company; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Classic
25
. 0009
1 (26)Port Arthur CVB; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
2 (27)Brownsville CVB; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
3 (28)Swarovski Optik; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
4 (29)Eastman Chemical Company; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Classic
5 (30)Tim & Gail Brodwell; Washer & Dryer; For
Seminole Canyon State Park volunteers
6 (31)Eagle Optics; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
7 (32)Reliant Energy; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
8 (33)Victor Emanuel Nature Tours; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Classic
9 (34)Branton Company; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
10 (35)National Audubon Society; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Classic
11 (36)City of Texas City; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
12 (37)Aransas Pass COC; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
13 (38)Stringfellow Trust; 12.066 acres & John
McCrosky historic cabin; Land and Historic
14 Site Conservation
(39)McGillivay and Leona Muse; 1972.5 acres of
15 land in Brown County; Land (Habitat)
Conservation
16 TOTAL: $1,608,110.69
17
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Sansom, would
19 you move forward to the next part.
20 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, at this
21 point I would like to -- I have several
22 announcements and acknowledgments I would like to
23 make.
24 First, I'd like to call your
25 attention to a unique exhibit that we have placed
. 0010
1 with Bob Cook's help in the corridors of the lobby
2 here. From 1889 to 1905 a team of naturalists
3 that were at that time employed by the US
4 Biological Survey conducted an extensive series of
5 biological investigations in Texas which were
6 published in 1905 under the title Biological
7 Survey of Texas by Vernon Bailey.
8 Thousands and thousands of pages of
9 field notes and reports and photographs were
10 archived in the national archives and the
11 Smithsonian.
12 Several years ago Doctor David
13 Schmidly, who is now the president of Texas Tech
14 University obtained copies of all of this material
15 and designed a project that basically has three
16 objectives: one, to reprint all of the original
17 biological survey of Texas work with annotations
18 and clarifications of scientific nomenclature;
19 two, to develop a CD ROM or a user friendly
20 computer database of the complete collection so
21 that it will be accessible to everyone; three, to
22 develop a museum exhibit which you will see in our
23 corridor today; and four, a book which will come
24 out later this year entitled Texas Natural
25 History, a Century of Change.
. 0011
1 A carefully selected segment of the
2 exhibit is now in display in the lobby back here
3 in the perpendicular corridor. And it details the
4 objectives and the methods of the naturalists who
5 conducted the survey. I think as you view it, it
6 will beg the question what Texas will look like a
7 century from now.
8 It's astonishing to look back and
9 see what these guys found when they first came in.
10 Most interesting is that much of the landscape
11 today in Texas is better than it was in condition
12 than it was a hundred years ago. So there's some
13 very interesting insights. But I think you'll --
14 each of us will ask the question what will our
15 great grandchildren think of what we did to
16 conserve these resources when they look at similar
17 exhibit in 2100.
18 This is the most satisfying portion
19 of our meetings for me. And when we have the
20 opportunity to recognize those employees who have,
21 with not much pay and a lot of grief, served the
22 Texas people with such distinction here at Parks
23 and Wildlife.
24 Today we have the privilege of
25 recognizing Corette Richter, who is retiring with
. 0012
1 26 years of service to Parks and Wildlife.
2 Corette started on October 7 of 1974 as a clerk in
3 Boat Registration. In 26 years she implemented
4 numerous legislative changes. The boating
5 registration deal is always a topic in the
6 legislature. She's trained numerous field staff.
7 She automated the boat registration system, which
8 is one of the most efficient in the country today.
9 And for the last eight years Corette has
10 supervised the Boat Information Section.
11 She works with county tax assessors,
12 field offices, boat owners and dealers, and she's
13 given a wonderful 26 years to Texas Parks and
14 Wildlife. Retiring today, Corette Richter, with
15 26 years of service.
16 (Applause; photographs taken.)
17 MR. SANSOM: For 35 years Lynn
18 Benefield from Coastal Fisheries has been
19 aggressively and in a very dedicated way helping
20 to protect the coastal resources of Texas. He is
21 the regional director of Coastal Fisheries in
22 Seabrook, and he started in 1966 as a biologist.
23 And he began working on the mud shell dredging
24 projects in Galveston Bay.
25 Over his tenure his leadership has
. 0013
1 been felt in marine construction, the oyster
2 reefs, artificial reef construction, tremendous
3 vegetation transplanting areas that are now taking
4 place from Sabine Lake to Corpus Christi Bay. In
5 1985 he was promoted to regional director for the
6 upper coast. And he is unfortunately about to
7 retire, although we are recognizing him today for
8 his service.
9 I actually felt like that -- one
10 thing that Lynn would never do would be to leave
11 until we had a new office in the Dickinson area
12 because the office that he has been working in is
13 regularly flooded for many years. So I think he's
14 finally made sure that the people who will succeed
15 him will have a dry place to work. So he's here
16 with us today with 35 years, Lynn Benefield.
17 (Applause; photographs taken.)
18 MR. SANSOM: At one time, Public
19 Hunting in our Department, as amazing as it seems,
20 was basically a limited by-product of our
21 management and research. It was not a major
22 thrust. In 1966 Herb Kothmann came to work for
23 the Department as a wildlife biologist in the
24 Permian Basin regulatory district. He worked in
25 Big Spring for 17 years and served for ten years
. 0014
1 as district leader in that area. In 1983 he came
2 here to assume responsibility for the public
3 hunting program. And during that 18 years, that
4 program has become a featured use of Department
5 lands, a core value for our Department.
6 Herb has expanded and computerized
7 the public drawing to annually today offer more
8 than 6,000 opportunities for people to hunt in
9 Texas. With 35 years of service to the wildlife
10 division, here with his wife, Donna, recognize
11 Herb Kothmann.
12 (Applause; photographs taken.)
13 MR. SANSOM: Boy, another face that
14 is known to everyone who is involved in coastal
15 conservation, marine fisheries, commercial fishing
16 industry, recreational fishing is Ed Hegen. Ed
17 Hegen has worked for 30 years in Coastal
18 Fisheries. Before he became a full-time employee
19 of Parks and Wildlife, he worked five times as a
20 seasonal technician until he could get on board.
21 He's been a technician. He's been an area
22 biologist. He's been a program leader, and now he
23 is a regional director.
24 He is a man who was recognized in
25 1998 as the employee of the year for leadership.
. 0015
1 His responsibility today is for the entire lower
2 half of the Texas coast. He's contributed
3 professional papers and to numerous publications.
4 And his work is known not only in Texas but
5 throughout the Unites States. Ed Hegen from
6 Coastal Fisheries with 30 years of service.
7 (Applause; photographs taken.)
8 MR. SANSOM: Another fisheries
9 biologist whose reputation extends well beyond the
10 boarders of Texas is Joe Kraai. Joe Kraai
11 started -- Commissioner Henry, as a wildlife at
12 Sheldon when it was a wildlife management area and
13 hatchery. He was promoted to a biologist in 1973,
14 and moved to canyon, which is where I first met
15 him. He was the leader of the Inland Fisheries
16 District Management Team up there, and he lived in
17 Canyon for 24 years when he became the Regional
18 Director of Inland Fisheries in San Antonio.
19 He is a respected manager in Texas
20 and throughout the country, and he's played a
21 major role in the Inland Fisheries Division as a
22 national leader in innovative and aggressive
23 fisheries management. He is respected around the
24 state by every one of our employees as a great
25 mentor and trainer of other professionals. He is
. 0016
1 a great friend of mine, and today we recognize Joe
2 Kraai for 30 years of service to the fresh water
3 anglers of Texas.
4 (Applause; photographs taken.)
5 MR. SANSOM: As each of you know, I
6 sometimes make some really bad decisions. But
7 every once in a while I make a good one. And one
8 of the best I've ever made is in asking Bob Cook
9 to be my chief side kick here in the Chief
10 Operating Officer of the Department. Bob Cook
11 came here in 1965 as a wildlife biologist in
12 Junction. In '72 he became the area manager of
13 the Kerr Wildlife Management Area which is today
14 one of the most distinguished sites for the study
15 of upland ecology and white-tailed deer in the
16 Unites States.
17 Bob initiated all of the
18 breakthrough nutrition and genetics research
19 studies on white-tail deer, as well as studies on
20 native and exotic big game animals. He was
21 instrumental in acquiring the initial breeding
22 herd of deer at the site which has become so
23 famous and was responsible for construction of the
24 white-tailed deer research facility. He became
25 program leader of the white-tailed deer program in
. 0017
1 1975.
2 Unfortunately, for a number of years
3 Bob left the Department and worked in the private
4 sector for the Shelton ranches in Texas, Montana
5 and Florida as Vice-President of Ranch Operations.
6 In 1990 Bob Cook returned to Parks and Wildlife,
7 thankfully, and became Chief of the Wildlife
8 Division. He was the Director of the Division in
9 1994 and served as the acting director of State
10 Parks for two years.
11 Today, he is the Chief Deputy of
12 Parks and Wildlife and its Chief Operating Officer
13 and one of the finest professionals in
14 conservation anywhere in the Unites States. Bob
15 Cook.
16 (Applause; photographs taken.)
17 MR. SANSOM: Laird Fowler, with 25
18 years. Laird is an interesting guy and has made a
19 tremendous contribution to our Department. He is
20 in the State Parks Division where he started in
21 1975 as an intern from A&M. Laird initiated in
22 the Parks Division the first summer interpretive
23 programming that occurred on a daily basis. He
24 created fishing tips for kids, aquatic seining,
25 astronomy, night prowls, nature crafts all at Lake
. 0018
1 Brownwood State Park. He carried that
2 interpretive skill and dedication to Sea Rim where
3 he built interpretive exhibits. He gave guided
4 canoe tips and helped with the public duck hunts.
5 During that time he also found time
6 to become the utility plant operator and was
7 certified to do so. He was the Assistant
8 Superintendent at Palo Duro Canyon. He's worked
9 at Fort Richardson, at Monahans Sandhills, and he
10 was the first manager at Brazos Bend which during
11 his tenure was named by the National Geographic as
12 one of the 10 best state parks in the United
13 States.
14 Today he works here in the Austin
15 headquarters and has been called on to do
16 everything from the Balcones Canyon Lands
17 Conservation Plan to the Infrastructure Task
18 Force. Please recognize with 25 years of service,
19 Mr. Laird Fowler from State Parks.
20 (Applause; photographs taken.)
21 MR. SANSOM: Johnnie B. Freeman
22 started work at Martin Dies in 1974 as a seasonal
23 employee. She went full-time in '77, and she's
24 today the administrative officer and office
25 manager there with 25 years of service from
. 0019
1 Jasper, Texas, Johnnie B. Freeman. And you look
2 terrific.
3 And she has her two beautiful
4 daughters with her today as well.
5 (Applause; photographs taken.)
6 MR. SANSOM: A jewel in our crown is
7 the Washington-on-the-Brazos State Historical
8 Park. Tom Scaggs started as a lead interpretive
9 ranger at the park in the Anson Jones House in
10 1976. He was made the manager in 1981 and is now
11 the complex manager. And his responsibilities
12 include all of the Republic of Texas complex,
13 including the Barrington Living History Farm,
14 Fanthorp Inn State Historical Park and the
15 Washington-on-the-Brazos Park itself.
16 For those of you who have not had
17 the opportunity to visit Washington-on-the-Brazos,
18 it is truly an example of what this Department can
19 do when it has the resources to truly preserve and
20 interpret the heritage of Texas. And the leader
21 in that movement has been Tom Scaggs, its
22 superintendent, now being recognized for 25 years
23 with Parks and Wildlife, Tom Scaggs.
24 (Applause; photographs taken.).
25 Well, got caught in the traffic, Commissioner
. 0020
1 Ryan. We'll see him when he gets here.
2 From Monahans. Monahans is another
3 great place, made particularly so not only because
4 of its fabulous resources, but because it has
5 probably the strongest and one of the first
6 friends groups in our systems. In fact, I believe
7 that the first State park endowment was created at
8 Monahans.
9 Glen Korth started to work at Lake
10 Somerville actually in 1981 as a seasonal worker.
11 When he finished his degree from Texas A&M, he
12 moved up from Ranger II to Assistant Manager there
13 at Somerville, the safety officer and the park
14 peace officer. He became Park Manager in 1993,
15 and then in '97 he moved to Monahans Sandhills
16 where he is now the manager of the park and helps
17 work with one of the finest community partners
18 anywhere in our system.
19 Please recognize, with 20 years of
20 service to State Parks, Glen Korth from Monahan
21 Sandhills.
22 (Applause; photographs taken.)
23 MR. SANSOM: David Simmons began to
24 work in the headquarters motor pool in 1981. He
25 really wanted to get out into the field, and so he
. 0021
1 struggled and finally got himself transferred to
2 Coastal Fisheries that year and served in the
3 Matagorda and San Antonio Bay Ecosystem Management
4 Teams, working on fisheries resource and harvest
5 monitoring programs. He's a Fish and Wildlife
6 Technician III, and he's conducted fishery
7 sampling in the upper Laguna Madre and Corpus
8 Christi Bay and all the way down to the land cut.
9 This program is part of the reason
10 why the Laguna Madre is the home of the State
11 record Spotted Sea Trout. And David Simmons and
12 his colleagues have helped make that one of the
13 greatest fisheries in North America.
14 Please recognize David Simmons from
15 Coastal Fisheries, a Fish and Wildlife Technician
16 with 20 years of service.
17 (Applause; photographs taken.)
18 MR. SANSOM: All right. Finally,
19 members, Nancy Jane Ziegler from Coastal Fisheries
20 is currently the administrative technician for the
21 Lower Coast Rockport Regional Office. She started
22 with the Department in 1981 and steadily advanced
23 up the career ladder during her tenure. She
24 assists the regional director there with a diverse
25 range of administrative challenges ranging from
. 0022
1 monthly employee time sheets to purchasing
2 regulations and insurance issues. She's
3 well-known throughout that part of the coast for
4 her friendliness, her positive attitude, and her
5 continuous helpfulness.
6 Please recognize Nancy Jane Ziegler
7 from Coastal Fisheries at Rockport, with 20 years
8 of service.
9 (Applause; photographs taken.)
10 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman and
11 members of the Commission, no corporate
12 partnership has meant as much to Texas Parks and
13 Wildlife over the years as that of the Dow
14 Chemical Company. You could stay here all day and
15 talk about the many things that we have done with
16 this unique corporation, from the establishment of
17 Sea Center, Texas itself to the creation of the
18 Peach Point Wildlife Management area and many
19 more.
20 And it gives me a great deal of
21 pleasure to introduce to you today Mr. Tommy
22 Block, who heads all of Dow's operations in Texas,
23 for a special presentation. Tommy Block.
24 MR. BLOCK: Mr. Chairman and
25 Commissioners and the audience behind me, it's an
. 0023
1 honor today to recognize a few folks from the
2 Texas Parks and Wildlife and the TNRCC.
3 Before I get into that, I have long
4 accused Andy Sansom of having the best possible
5 job in the State of Texas. And I now realize that
6 I have the second best job, and that is to head
7 Dallas, Texas operations which grew quite
8 substantially recently with the acquisition of the
9 Union Carbide sites in Sea Drift and Texas City.
10 So Andy, I have the second best job, and I'm
11 catching up to you.
12 As Andy mentioned, Dow has a long
13 history of collaborative efforts with the State of
14 Texas, with conservation associations and with
15 individuals who care a great deal about Texas and
16 the environment. The Sea Center in Lake Jackson
17 is a prime example of that where we partnered with
18 Parks and Wildlife and the Coastal Conservation
19 Association and hundreds of volunteers. And it's
20 a wonderful place. I hope the audience behind me
21 gets a chance to visit if they haven't already.
22 But we're here today to honor
23 certain individuals who helped us put together
24 what we've referred to as the Austin's Woods
25 Conservation Initiative which creatively and
. 0024
1 collaboratively help Dow solve some of its
2 wetlands mitigations issues, but also allowed Dow
3 to put aside 3,000 acres and some money to help
4 preserve it in the historically significant and --
5 significant from a wildlife point of view Austin's
6 Woods area.
7 And so it's with great pleasure that
8 Dow Chemical Company honored its own employees
9 last year with the prestigious Responsible Care
10 Award. One of those award winners was Ron
11 Dipprey, who is here with me today. And the Dow
12 Chemical Company insists on also honoring those
13 folks within the agencies in Texas who helped us a
14 great deal.
15 And so will Jack Bauer and Bob Cook
16 and Andy Sansom and Jeff Saitas from the TNRCC
17 please come up and receive an award from the Dow
18 Chemical Company.
19 (Applause; photographs taken.)
20 MR. BLOCK: Thank you.
21 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, Tommy, and
22 thanks for all that you have done. I would also
23 call your attention that along with Mr. Saitas,
24 who is my colleague from the Texas Natural
25 Resource Conservation Commission is Commissioner
. 0025
1 Baker from that Commission. He's here as well.
2 So welcome, Commissioner Baker. And thank you-all
3 for being here. Tommy Block is also a member of
4 the Parks and Wildlife Foundation of Texas Board,
5 along with Commissioner Idsal and Commissioner
6 Heath. And we appreciate your service in that
7 regard as well.
8 At this time Mr. Chairman, don't you
9 go back and sit in that chair yet because this is
10 a time of this program which is a very -- yes,
11 sir, please, if you could rejoin me down at the
12 bottom.
13 Thankfully, members and ladies and
14 gentlemen, Governor Perry has asked Mr. Bass to
15 remain the Chairman of our Commission through the
16 end of this legislative session. And we are
17 blessed that he has agreed to do so. However,
18 today we do have the sad task of saying good-bye
19 to two of the best Commissioners who have ever
20 served on this board, and that is Dick Heath and
21 Nolan Ryan.
22 And so at this time I would like to
23 ask Lydia and her staff to present you with a
24 little story about two of the best friends we've
25 ever had.
. 0026
1 (WHEREUPON, a videotape was
2 presented in honor of
3 Commissioners Ryan and Heath,
4 after which time, the
5 proceedings continued as
6 follows:)
7 MR. SANSOM: We have for each of you
8 a token of our appreciation, an acknowledgment of
9 your service here.
10 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Thank you.
11 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: And I guess I have
13 to say given the immense amount of accomplishments
14 of both of your lives, the incredible talent that
15 you've both represented and dedication, that
16 everyone in this Department feels like you've
17 showed them respect and friendship which we will
18 always remember.
19 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Well, thank
20 you.
21 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Andy, I'd just
24 like to say that I've certainly enjoyed my time
25 here. I feel very blessed that I've had this
. 0027
1 honor. And it's not too many people that get an
2 opportunity to be in the position that Dick and I
3 have. And I know, speaking for myself, that I
4 truly did enjoy it. And I truly did get -- enjoy
5 meeting all the employees here with the Department
6 and seeing their dedication, and I'll always
7 remember that. Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 COMMISSIONER HEATH: I'll try to
10 keep mine shorter than Nolan did. But it's been
11 an extraordinary six years, an extraordinary
12 experience and opportunity. And I've really
13 enjoyed certainly working with Nolan, all the
14 Commissioners, Chairman Bass and Andy and all of
15 you. The dedication of this Department, and the
16 people who work here is absolutely unbelievable.
17 And it's truly been an honor to work with and get
18 to know each and every one of you. And I thank
19 you very much.
20 (Applause.)
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: You have to be off
22 the Commission for five years before you can be in
23 the hall of fame.
24 All right. Who wants to follow that
25 act, huh? That was great, Lydia. That was a
. 0028
1 great job.
2 All right. We need to move to
3 approval of the agenda for today. And it is
4 before you. Does anybody have any comment or a
5 motion?
6 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: I move approval
7 of the agenda.
8 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and second.
10 All in favor? Any opposed? So we move our
11 agenda.
12 (Motion passed unanimously.)
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: And we do not have a
14 consent agenda today, so Item 1 will not be heard.
15 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2: ACTION - 2001-2001
16 STATEWIDE HUNTING AND FISHING PROCLAMATION.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Item 2, Statewide
18 Hunting and Fishing Proclamation.
19 Mr. Hammerschmidt, if you will start
20 us off this morning.
21 MR. HAMMERSCHMIDT: Good morning,
22 Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. My name is Paul
23 Hammerschmidt, Program Director for the Coast
24 Fisheries Division. I'm going to present to you
25 today results of the public comments on the
. 0029
1 regulations that we proposed. There we go.
2 Regulations that we proposed.
3 The first proposal was to increase
4 the daily bag of Spanish mackerel in state waters
5 from seven fish to 15 fish per person. We
6 received zero comments in the 19 county public
7 hearings that we had. And of the 39 e-mails that
8 were received on this proposal, 29 were in favor.
9 The second proposal was to fix
10 language to require floats on crab traps used by
11 commercial finfish fisherman to be white instead
12 of yellow. We also received zero comments from
13 the 19 county public hearings. And from the 21
14 e-mails that were received on this, 16 were in
15 favor.
16 In conclusion, we make no -- we
17 recommend that there be no amendments to these
18 proposals. And I'd be happy to answer any
19 questions.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Questions? Thank
21 you, Paul.
22 MR. KURZAWSKI: Good morning,
23 Commissioners. My name is Ken Kurzawski. I am in
24 the Fisheries Division. And I'd like to review
25 our changes to the freshwater fishing regulations
. 0030
1 and give you our results of the public comment
2 from those public hearings that we held and also
3 from other methods.
4 The first proposal we have is on
5 Lake Sweetwater. We've proposed to change the
6 minimum length limit for the -- the lake limit for
7 large-mouthed bass from the current 14-inch
8 minimal length limit to a 14- to 18-inch slot.
9 Our goal there is to increase abundance of quality
10 size bass in this population. Public comment from
11 the -- primarily through e-mail, we received 67
12 comments. 84 percent of them were in favor. We
13 also did, prior to the proposal being made, we did
14 discuss this proposal with the bass fisherman in
15 the area, bass anglers and bass clubs. And they
16 were also generally in favor of the proposal.
17 The next proposal is on the Pinkston
18 Reservoir. We're proposing to change the 14- to
19 18-inch slot limit to a 14- to 21-inch slot with
20 restriction that only one of the fish harvested
21 could be over 21 inches. Our goal there is to
22 increase the abundance of trophy size bass of this
23 population. Public comment was generally in favor
24 of it. Of the 61 comments received, 84 percent
25 were in favor. And through a local survey we
. 0031
1 made, the proposal was also overwhelmingly
2 approved in favor.
3 OH Ivie Reservoir, we're proposing
4 to change the length limit for large-mouth bass
5 from the current 18-inch minimum to a no-minimum
6 length limit with restriction that the five fish
7 bag that only two can be less than 18 inches. We
8 have an over abundance of 14- to 18-inch bass
9 there that are growing slowly. And our goal there
10 is to remove some of those fish to maintain the
11 quality of this fishery. Public comment, we
12 received 79 comments on this. 75 percent were in
13 favor of this change.
14 The next change is on seven
15 reservoirs. These would be small-mouth bass
16 regulations. The length limit, we currently have
17 an 18-inch limit. We're proposing to change it to
18 14 inches and change the daily bag from three to
19 five. And this would be going to the statewide
20 limits for the species. We didn't see any gains
21 that we had hoped under the 18-inch minimum. We
22 see a chance here to simplify the regulations and
23 still maintain the quality of these fisheries.
24 Public comment, we did receive one
25 written comment, one verbal comment against us.
. 0032
1 And from other comments, 80 of them we received --
2 71 percent were in favor of this change.
3 The final change is on two small
4 reservoirs, Lakes Coffee Mill and Davy Crockett in
5 the Caddo National Grassland, and we're proposing
6 to prohibit the use of trot lines, throw lines and
7 jug lines. Our goals here are to improve the
8 quality of the catfish angling and to work with
9 the U.S. Forest Service who administers this area,
10 to standardize the regulations -- some of the
11 regulations that they have.
12 Public comment, we received one
13 written comment against this, and from e-mails we
14 received 64 comments. 64 percent were in favor of
15 the change. Based on these comments that we
16 received and our review of the comments, we
17 propose to you that -- to approve the changes that
18 we have proposed without any changes. I'll take
19 any questions if you have any.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions of Ken
21 at this time? Thank you very much. Doctor Cooke,
22 please?
23 DR. COOKE: Mr. Chairman and
24 members, my name is Jerry Cooke, Game Branch Chief
25 of the Wildlife Division. I'll be presenting to
. 0033
1 you the recommended changes for the statewide
2 hunting and fishing proclamation from our
3 division. These were issues that were proposed to
4 you in the January meeting, and we feel that these
5 proposals relate to the chairman's charges for
6 maximizing hunting opportunity and landowner
7 flexibility while protecting the wildlife
8 resources for which we are all responsible. I'll
9 summarize public comments for each proposal as I
10 present them to you.
11 The first one was a petition for
12 rulemaking to open the quail season one week
13 earlier. As I pointed out in January, we really
14 have no biological issues here. It's not going to
15 affect the population one way or another. But we
16 had other concerns about it.
17 Commissioner Angelo asked us if
18 there was some way that we could word the opening
19 date to prohibit a conflict between the opening
20 day of hunting season for the white-tailed deer
21 season.
22 The answer is, yes, do it one of two
23 ways. One is instead of saying the Saturday
24 nearest November 1, we could say the Saturday
25 nearest October 28th, or we could simply say the
. 0034
1 last Saturday in October. It would do the same
2 thing. I think you have a handout showing that we
3 have three years of conflict in a row that recur
4 through time. If you choose to change that
5 wording, then that would accommodate the concern.
6 On the proof of sex of a turkey, we
7 would propose to change it from the beard attached
8 to either one leg including the spur attached to
9 the bird or the patch of breast feathers with a
10 beard attached accompanying the bird. And this is
11 primarily for the sanitation of the bird being
12 transported from the hunting area. We had 201
13 comments in favor of this and seven in opposition.
14 Proposed to open a spring Easter
15 wild turkey season in Houston, Rusk, Smith, Upshur
16 and Wood counties, this would be the standard
17 county season as they have as elsewhere in Texas.
18 We had 184 comments in favor of and seven in
19 opposition to this proposal.
20 The proposal to open a javelina
21 season in Archer County would be from October 1
22 through the last Sunday in February. The bag
23 limit would be two javelina. It's identical to
24 the adjacent counties' seasons. We had 128
25 comments in favor of and four in opposition to
. 0035
1 that proposal.
2 Currently populations with the
3 greatest need for harvest of deer are provided
4 only the county's general season which is much
5 shorter than those provided for Level 2 or Level 3
6 MLD properties to accomplish a much more difficult
7 harvest goal in a time that would be less than
8 optimal for benefiting the habitat. This proposal
9 would allow antlerless control deer permits to be
10 valid during a specific time period, which would
11 be Saturday nearest September 30th through the
12 last day of any open season on the property. We
13 had 198 comments in favor and 56 in opposition to
14 that proposal.
15 We would propose to allow the use of
16 LAMPS permits in Fannin, Hunt and Rains County
17 with no other change to the season or bag limit.
18 We had 157 comments in favor of and 16 in
19 opposition to that proposal.
20 In the 14 counties north of the
21 Edwards Plateau, we proposed to add an antlerless
22 deer to the bag limit, which would bring the bag
23 limit to five deer, no more than two bucks. And
24 we would also have an additional 14-day antlerless
25 and spike only season provided after the general
. 0036
1 season. We had 190 comments in favor of that and
2 29 in opposition.
3 Two proposals for South Texas. One
4 would be to add 12 counties to the five deer, no
5 more than three buck bag with the 14-day
6 antlerless and spike late season in the counties.
7 We had 174 in favor of that and 26 in opposition.
8 And also to open all of the South Texas counties a
9 week earlier, which would be the first Saturday in
10 November. We had 199 comments in favor of that and
11 41 in opposition.
12 The proposal that would have provided
13 a receipt log for MLD properties, we recommend that
14 that be withdrawn. We have comments from the
15 Triple-T Task Force that discusses these issues, and
16 they are quite informed on them. They recommend that
17 we amend the MLD program in two ways that we support.
18 One is to allow a partial issuance
19 of permits on a Level 2 or Level 3 MLD property on
20 properties where the survey is conducted later
21 than the opening of the season. In South Texas
22 there's lots of counties where they don't even
23 begin their deer survey until late October. It
24 kind of makes it hard to get permits for the
25 opening of the October season otherwise. The
. 0037
1 remainder of the permits then would be provided
2 when the survey was completed.
3 The second is a tagging issue.
4 Currently a hunter has to have an MLD permit on
5 his person when he's hunting a deer, takes the
6 deer, has to tag it with his hunting license and
7 the MLD permit.
8 This proposal would require that he
9 use the tag from his hunting license immediately,
10 take the animal immediately to a location on the
11 property where permits can be attached. And this
12 would be easier for the landowner to keep track of
13 his permits and for the permits to not fall apart
14 in the pocket of the hunter before the deer is
15 even taken. There was no public comment on this
16 since this was an amendment.
17 The proposal to split the current
18 one buck compartment in Texas, which is about half
19 of Texas, into two compartments, which would allow
20 a hunter in the counties that lie along I-35 and
21 east to take one deer in that area and then to
22 move west of that area, to take one deer.
23 We had 188 comments in favor of this
24 and 47 in opposition. If we adopt this proposal,
25 we would like to leave in place long enough for us
. 0038
1 to evaluate it to actually determine if it does
2 have an impact on hunting pressure in this very
3 heavily hunted portion of Texas.
4 When we originally adopted the bonus
5 tag for deer, we allowed it be used on special
6 permits and to be used on State Parks and Wildlife
7 Management Area hunts because that was the only
8 kind of public hunting we had at that time. And
9 we have many other kinds of public hunting
10 opportunities, including on private land.
11 And we would like to amend this
12 portion of the bonus tag to allow it to be used in
13 any deer hunt on our public hunting properties,
14 wherever they might be.
15 Also in the published proclamation,
16 we included a provision that would require hunters
17 to fill out the tag log on the back of the hunting
18 license, primarily because we thought we were
19 going to be able to implement that with a new
20 contract. But complications have arisen that
21 we're not going to be able to implement at this
22 time. And we need to withdraw that proposal for
23 consideration at this time.
24 One of the most commented on
25 proposals that I've seen, certainly as related to
. 0039
1 this youth-only season expansion provision,
2 yesterday I reported we had 636 in opposition and
3 121 -- there's considerably more arrived this
4 morning. It's probably closer to a thousand in
5 opposition. But this is primarily because of
6 misunderstanding of the proposal, to a large
7 extent, in that we can't publish options in the
8 Texas Register.
9 And if you have -- if we're going to
10 identify all of the weekends in which you could
11 choose to expand into, we have to publish them
12 all. That was never the intent that they all be
13 adopted.
14 At any rate, most of those in
15 opposition were archers concerned about archery
16 hunting in October. Our proposal would be amended
17 to you is this: We maintain the youth-only
18 weekend that we currently have in place and
19 provide the third weekend in January on properties
20 that do not otherwise have an open season on them
21 as an expansion for that program.
22 We also intend to work extensively
23 with the archers between now and the next cycle to
24 see if there are other ways that we might be able
25 to promote youth hunting in a mutual sort of way.
. 0040
1 The recommended motion for the Texas
2 Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the 2001-2002
3 statewide hunting and fishing proclamation located
4 in Exhibit A, with changes to the proposal as
5 published in the February 23, 2001 issue of the
6 Texas Register. If you have any questions about
7 the wildlife proposals, I'd be happy to entertain
8 them at this time.
9 COMMISSIONER ANGELO:
10 Mr. Chairman, is -- may I say something, please.
11 (Inaudible).
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Please -- fine.
13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Cooke, one
14 of the two questions I have, one regards the quail
15 proposal. Do you have any major problem with
16 going to the Saturday nearest October 28th and see
17 how it would work?
18 DR. COOKE: No. As I said, we --
19 there's no biological issue here. You know, the
20 issue is that over the years virtually every
21 comment I've ever had was, A, the season opens too
22 early and it's too long. And of course the
23 response is, you can stay home.
24 But at any rate, if the concern is
25 opening on the same day for white tail and quail,
. 0041
1 this is one way of repairing that if you choose to
2 do that.
3 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: And there
4 seems to be some concern about it. And to me it
5 seems like it might be a worthwhile experiment to
6 try it and see how it works.
7 The second question I had with
8 respect to the youth only. We had a -- we
9 received a letter from the Bow Hunters
10 Association, the president. One of the
11 suggestions he made was that -- and I guess this
12 is something we couldn't do now because it wasn't
13 published. But it was to consider a youth-only
14 bow hunting weekend.
15 DR. COOKE: Absolutely.
16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: That sounds
17 like an excellent idea to me, but it's obviously
18 something we'd have to do later.
19 DR. COOKE: He's here. And I
20 believe he'll be commenting also for you. But as
21 I said, that's one of the many things we can work
22 with them on between now and the next cycle.
23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Thank you.
24 DR. COOKE: Thank you, sir.
25 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Jerry, I have a
. 0042
1 question on the quail. What's the latest that
2 you've seen a fall hatch?
3 DR. COOKE: Well, what we talked
4 about yesterday was the research that we've done
5 in Texas to determine when an appropriate opening
6 date might be. We've done it on the Matador area.
7 We've done it on the Chaparral. I was involved in
8 the one on the Chaparral.
9 The thing that we chose -- the
10 reason that we proposed the opening that we did
11 from the Chaparral study and also from the
12 Matador, is we just arbitrarily picked a time when
13 90 percent of the hunters were satisfied with 90
14 percent of their bag. In other words, there are
15 still going to be some small birds in certain
16 years.
17 I have seen, while I was in South
18 Texas, which was a long time ago -- I've seen
19 seasons where essentially no young birds appeared
20 until July. It was an odd year. But I've seen
21 that.
22 I've also seen where we had a year
23 where we saw no more small birds after the middle
24 of July. But in a typical year it's -- it begins
25 in May, kind of forms a normalized hump and pretty
. 0043
1 well is finished by the middle of August, pretty
2 much year in and year out. And that's from
3 memory. But I could get you the reports.
4 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: What do you
5 consider the survivability of the real late
6 hatched quail?
7 DR. COOKE: Well, about the same for
8 any quail. I mean, survivability of a quail is
9 very, very low in South Texas.
10 DR. COOKE: The late ones don't have
11 a worse chance in --
12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: It's hard to
13 tell. You never have a good enough sample size of
14 banded birds to be able to extend. In fact, most
15 of the estimates that we did on the Chaparral was
16 dependent on the first two weekends of the hunt
17 because after that there's too many things
18 involved to complicate it with any good estimates.
19 And I've never done any telemetry work. There may
20 be some, some, but I'm not familiar with it.
21 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Have there been
22 any studies similar to the Chaparral? And you
23 said the other one was Matagorda?
24 DR. COOKE: Matador.
25 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Oh, Matador.
. 0044
1 Where is Matador?
2 DR. COOKE: It's in Childress
3 County. It's up in southern rolling plains,
4 panhandle.
5 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: That answers my
6 question. I wanted to know about the studies. I
7 still am questioning about the late hatches, if
8 they occur, must occur at somewhat different
9 times, depending on what time -- or what part of
10 the state you're in, for temperature reasons and
11 rainfall and any number of things.
12 DR. COOKE: One would think. I've
13 only worked in South Texas. I've never worked in
14 Matador. But as I said, we can acquire those
15 studies. We'll certainly cover all those issues
16 in the briefing at the next Commission meeting.
17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: The -- in looking at
19 the handout, the change to opening near the
20 Saturday nearest October 28th would move the
21 opening up one week in 12 out of the next 20
22 years.
23 So that's -- if one wishes to pursue
24 a compromise position between the current status
25 in opening a week earlier, I guess this would be
. 0045
1 one way of doing it. But it would affect the --
2 you know, roughly half the time, so...
3 We do have some public comment on
4 this agenda item. And if we're through discussing
5 this for the time being, we'll go ahead and --
6 let's go ahead and do that.
7 David Bailey, if you'd come forward
8 to speak. And I'd like Paul Hodges to be prepared
9 to speak second.
10 MR. BAILEY: Commissioners, my name
11 is David Bailey. I'm president of theTraditional
12 Bowhunters of Texas. I'm here to ask that the
13 proposed new proposal on the youth hunting with
14 rifles during the archery season not be approved.
15 We're not against youth hunters. We're very much
16 in favor of youth hunting.
17 We've given a weekend, the last
18 weekend of the special archery season for youth
19 hunting. We would like to work -- and this is
20 what I'm asking you, is work with youth to develop
21 new hunters. The kids that we have hunting today,
22 they're hunting today. What we need is new
23 hunters, be it adults and youth, to replace the
24 ones that are moving on. This program does
25 nothing for bringing in new hunters.
. 0046
1 I ask that you give us time to work
2 with youth, work with Texas Parks and Wildlife in
3 developing new hunters, the whole hunting
4 community. I ask -- this is what I ask. Thank
5 you.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Paul Hodges? And if
7 Kevin -- I'm having trouble with -- Hilbig be
8 prepared to speak next, Lone Star Bow Hunters
9 Association. Paul Hodges, please.
10 MR. HODGES: Yes. I'm here also as
11 a member of the executive counsel of the Lone Star
12 Bow Hunters Association to speak to you today
13 about the proposed youth hunting season in
14 October.
15 First I'd like to thank you all for
16 letting us speak about this. One of the things
17 that I noticed was proposed is that the youth
18 hunting season be put into January, which I think
19 is a very good proposal. The Bow Hunters
20 Association is definitely not anti-youth hunting.
21 We really want to improve youth hunting numbers.
22 You know, y'all have probably seen
23 the last few years at the wildlife convention, the
24 youth bow hunting booth was one of the most
25 popular booths there. And we continue to have
. 0047
1 that booth, and we will continue to do so.
2 One of the problems that we see with
3 the proposal to have youth rifle hunts during bow
4 hunting season is with the -- with some of the
5 regulations dealing with having rifles in camp
6 while -- with bows, with the game wardens having
7 to -- they're already pretty much having to do
8 quite a bit and having to have a little bit
9 more -- having to do a little bit more of this
10 regulation is not a good thing.
11 Another thing that has been noticed,
12 especially on the youth hunts recently, is that
13 last year at Chaparral a hunter showed up with a
14 three-year-old in tow.
15 And we're afraid that this type of
16 thing may continue if hunters are allowed to bring
17 their small children out into the field. And the
18 last thing I'd like to say is, I have children.
19 Next week I'm going to take my
20 13-year-old daughter turkey hunting. And I'm
21 doing it not because there's a special season for
22 it. I'm doing it because it's a privilege to me
23 to be able to take her hunting.
24 And I think that's the way we should
25 start doing this, is we should start offering
. 0048
1 incentives to parents who take their kids hunting.
2 If kids don't have parents, we need to come up
3 with something that can help -- that can help us
4 get kids without parents out into the field, maybe
5 offering incentives to school children who do well
6 in school.
7 The Lone Star Bow Hunters
8 Association is more than willing to work with the
9 Texas Parks and Wildlife to volunteer some of our
10 efforts to help with this.
11 So I just wanted to thank y'all for
12 allowing us to be here to speak to y'all and also
13 wanted to thank y'all for your time in serving the
14 State of Texas. Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you,
16 Mr. Hodges. Kevin Hilbig? And Kelly Garmon, if
17 you'd be prepared to speak after Mr. Hilbig.
18 MR. HILBIG: Honorable
19 Commissioners, my name is Kevin Hilbig,
20 vice-president of the Lone Star Bow Hunters
21 Association. I would like to thank each of you
22 for giving me this opportunity to express my
23 concerns. I'm here to today to support the
24 2001-2002 hunting regulations as proposed by Texas
25 Parks and Wildlife staff. I do share a concern
. 0049
1 about the thought of extending the youth hunting
2 season to include every weekend of the special
3 archery season.
4 I personally support the idea of
5 providing more opportunities for youth to
6 participate in the sport of hunting. I'm not
7 convinced that combining it with archery season is
8 the right to thing to do. I've talked to numerous
9 bow hunters who share seasonal leases with rifle
10 hunters. They take full advantage of the special
11 archery season when they're not competing with the
12 rifle hunters. Their claim is once the general
13 season starts, deer sightings go down because of
14 the increased competition. In situations like
15 this, landowners very seldom make rules on choice
16 of weapons so they must blend in together and make
17 their own rules.
18 Bow hunters also hunt smaller land
19 tracts because they can do so safely. Are we
20 setting ourselves up for possible conflict and by
21 increasing -- or increasing hunting accidents by
22 allowing rifles during the special archery season?
23 I realize that without getting our
24 younger generation involved, the sport of hunting
25 will have a difficult time existing in the near
. 0050
1 future. If we extend the youth hunting
2 opportunities into October, would we actually get
3 new hunters involved? I would have to say no
4 because I believe that the decline of younger
5 hunters is associated with the cost of hunting.
6 Average income families simply
7 cannot afford the cost of hunting lease and,
8 therefore, have given up the sport of hunting.
9 Ranchers who leased their property out for hunting
10 certainty have the right to get the return on
11 their investment. They experience operating
12 expenses just like any other business. Is
13 creating a youth hunting season during archery
14 season the right answer? How can we increase the
15 number of youth to participate or acknowledge that
16 hunting is not a bad thing?
17 Over the past five years, I have
18 participated along with the LSBA members to
19 provide youth archery event at the Texas Parks and
20 Wildlife Outdoor Expo. This is a great event that
21 reaches out and gives opportunity of thousands of
22 kids who have never participated in shooting
23 sports. The Expo is a fine example of all parties
24 working together for the best interest of outdoor
25 sports.
. 0051
1 Can we as sportsmen come together
2 with ideas that can make a real impact in
3 recruiting new hunters? Can we give that family
4 that wants to hunt but can't afford to the
5 opportunity to go field? Last summer at the youth
6 hunt promotional gathering on Commissioner
7 Watson's ranch, a comment was made that summed it
8 up very well. If we can provide the opportunity
9 for a kid to participate in the sport of hunting
10 just once and they have an enjoyable experience,
11 then just maybe we as hunters have a partner for
12 life.
13 In closing I ask that the
14 Commissioners please approve the proposed hunting
15 regulations and give opposing groups time to
16 arrive at a solution that will allow us to
17 increase the number of youth involved in hunting
18 activities. The LSBA is willing to do our part in
19 promoting youth opportunities. Thank you very
20 much.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you,
22 Mr. Hilbig. Kelly Garmon? And Danny Evans, if
23 you'd be prepared to speak after Mr. Garmon.
24 MR. GARMON: Mr. Chairman,
25 Commissioners, thank you for your time. My name
. 0052
1 is Kelly Garmon. I'm here speaking for myself
2 basically. My motivation for coming today to talk
3 to y'all are pretty much selfish. I'll admit that
4 right up front.
5 I have a six-year-old daughter. She
6 will be six next month, and she has hunted the
7 last two years with myself and her mother. And
8 during that time, my fondest memories of the hunt
9 weren't of the first deer I killed with a bow or
10 any animal in particular. More so, that Katie
11 went out with me in the dark in the woods and
12 watched the woods wake up and the wildlife come
13 out, the sounds, the peace and serenity of seeing
14 the world away from the hustle and bustle of
15 everyday life. And I'd like to see that preserved
16 in October for her and hopefully her children.
17 When the guns go off in the pasture
18 next to you, that serenity is gone. That's pretty
19 much all I have to say. Thank you for your time.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you,
21 Mr. Garmon. Danny Evans? And Tommy Actkinson, if
22 you'd be prepared just to come up after Mr. Evans.
23 MR. EVANS: Good morning,
24 Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, Commissioner Heath
25 and Commissioner Ryan. I want to thank you, too.
. 0053
1 I appreciate what all you guys do for the State of
2 Texas. I'm 36 years old. I've been hunting and
3 fishing in the State of Texas since I was two or
4 three years old. I have an 11-year-old son. He's
5 coming up the same way in my shoes. Loves to fish
6 and is just now getting into the age that he's
7 able to I guess adequately handle a firearm in a
8 manner that I see that he's efficient enough to
9 kill with.
10 He also is an archer. He started
11 picking up archery about two years ago, and this
12 year I started taking him with me on 3D
13 tournaments. He's placed first. He's placed
14 second, and he's placed third. And he's proud of
15 that. He wanted me to say to you guys this
16 morning that he wants to have the opportunity to
17 be able to bow hunt in October. He has plenty of
18 opportunity. He's spoken to bow hunt in November
19 and December like we did last year. I gave up
20 three weekends in November to take my son hunting
21 last year, rifle hunting. He killed his first
22 deer last year in the third weekend. He's also
23 been archery hunting with me. He is -- at 35
24 pounds he can't make the 40-pound minimum because
25 he's 11 years old, but he tries.
. 0054
1 Every two or three weeks he's on a
2 bow scale, Dad, is it 40 pounds? Is it 40 pounds?
3 And I have to tell him, no, it's not 40 pounds,
4 son. He'll be ready next October. And I'm as
5 avid as everybody else is about youth hunting. I
6 want the youth to come up. I want the youth to
7 hunt. I ask the kids in our neighborhood, come on
8 over and, you know, watch us shoot.
9 My son has one little boy down the
10 street that comes over and the kid is begging his
11 parents to get him a bow so he can come over and
12 shoot with us. We're trying to promote youth.
13 I'm trying to promote youth. I'm an individual.
14 I'm not part of the LSBA. I'm not part in of any
15 organization. I'm just a father that I grew up in
16 the hunting. My son is growing up in the hunting
17 situation. And he wants to have the opportunity
18 to come into bow season. People are bringing up
19 items to you of safety.
20 I archery hunt in November as well
21 as I do in November -- I'm sorry, October. And
22 the gun issue in November, the gun issue in
23 December would affect me the same way that it does
24 in October. The reason that I find October is a
25 special time is it is the serenity time that I can
. 0055
1 bow hunt without the influence of having the rifle
2 hunters. I believe it was the last gentleman that
3 just spoke or the gentleman before that that just
4 spoke, he mentioned the abuse that's going to be
5 happening with the fathers during archery season.
6 I personally, on our place in Lampasas, on our
7 little 50-acre place, seen a man driving down the
8 road last October of -- the last weekend of
9 October last year on the youth rifle season, and
10 he had a three-year-old little boy in the truck.
11 When I opened the gate up for him to
12 drive through, I asked him what he was doing. And
13 he said that he was out rifle hunting with his
14 son. That's just one of the abuses that we're
15 going to sustain if we put rifle season in
16 October.
17 MR. SANSOM: Thank you, sir.
18 MR. EVANS: Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Evans.
20 Mr. Actkinson. And Joseph Simone should be
21 prepared to speak after Mr. Actkinson.
22 MR. ACTKINSON: Thank you. My name
23 is Tomme Actkinson. I'm the president of the Lone
24 Star Bow Hunters Association. LSBA supports the
25 amended proposal of the proposed regulations. The
. 0056
1 current proposals are in the best interest of the
2 Texas hunting community. LSBA is pro youth. We
3 would gladly support a youth bow hunt weekend.
4 Several years ago when youth rifle
5 hunts were proposed for the final weekend of the
6 archery season, LSBA did not propose. The
7 proposal this year for rifle hunts on every
8 weekend in October is the reason why Parks and
9 Wildlife has now received over 1,000
10 communications in opposition. Bow hunters are not
11 the only ones in opposition. Many rifle hunters
12 feel it is a bad idea as well. Why?
13 First, it does not address the real
14 problem. There are already ten to 13 weekends
15 available as well as the Thanksgiving and
16 Christmas holidays. Additional hunt weekends may
17 be a good idea. But only when they do not
18 interfere with existing seasons. Rifle hunts in
19 October interfere with the archery only season.
20 The youth hunt the last weekend in October does
21 this also, but most bow hunters accept this.
22 Every weekend is another matter.
23 I have heard some claim that a
24 shared season is proposed, not one in which there
25 is interference. On large, high-fenced ranches,
. 0057
1 perhaps. But many leases are 500 acres or less.
2 Archery hunting on this size ranch would be
3 greatly affected by rifle hunts on that land or
4 the land next door.
5 Every weekend rifle hunts would be
6 an interference with, not a sharing of the archery
7 only season. The real problem is not time but
8 affordable places to hunt. As president of LSBA,
9 I want to see the number of young hunters
10 increase. And I issue a challenge to Parks and
11 Wildlife and other organizations such as TWA.
12 Let's work together to get more youth into hunting
13 by finding ways to make more affordable hunting
14 lands available.
15 One way this could be done would be
16 to provide more bow hunts on public lands. You
17 can hunt far more bow hunters on a given piece of
18 land than you can with a rifle. 138 hunts were
19 proposed at state parks this year.
20 Only 11 youth hunts were offered,
21 and none of these were archery. I realize that
22 parks are multi-use facilities and that rifles are
23 the preferred mode. But getting more youth into
24 hunting is important, too. My dream would be ten
25 or more youth bow hunts per year on public lands
. 0058
1 with 100 to 200 kids taking part in each. That
2 could really make a difference.
3 I believe that bow hunters in the
4 archery only season are due some respect. Bow
5 hunters proposed the first archery stamp in order
6 to support Parks and Wildlife. I have personally
7 bought that stamp since 1976. I believe ours was
8 the first revenue stamp. I know for sure that we
9 predate the turkey, white wing, saltwater and
10 muzzle loader stamps. I feel that we are worthy
11 of support. Please respect the integrity of the
12 archery only season. Thank you for your
13 consideration. We support the hunting regulations
14 as proposed.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you,
16 Mr. Actkinson. Joseph Simone? Actually, I have a
17 Joseph Simone the III and the IV. Which are you?
18 I assume you're the fourth.
19 MR. SIMONE: Hello.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: If your father would
21 be prepared to speak after you, please.
22 MR. SIMONE: Hello, my name is Joey
23 Simone, IV. I am ten years old. I have been
24 blessed to be born in the State of Texas, have the
25 opportunity to hunt and fish all year long. By
. 0059
1 choice I am a bow hunter. I have been shooting a
2 bow since I was three years old, competing in
3 tournaments for -- competing in hunting for the
4 last three years. This year I've harvested an
5 eight point buck, an eight point whited-tailed
6 buck and a silver medal Hawaiian ram with my bow.
7 Both of these animals were taken in
8 October before the gunshots got the animals
9 scared. I live in the Houston area and have to
10 travel four hours to hunt. My dad asks me if I
11 want to hunt every time he goes. Being a hunter
12 in Texas, I can hunt with a bow or a gun every day
13 of the year. Is it not true that hogs, javelina,
14 exotic animals and varmints can be hunted any
15 time?
16 So my question is, why does the
17 State of Texas need a season during October for
18 youth only? If it is to give the youth the chance
19 to kill a deer, then what I have been taught about
20 hunting must not be true. Hunting is not only
21 about killing an animal. It is about being
22 outdoors and learning about the wildlife, reading
23 animal tracks and learning the animals' habits,
24 watching animals play together and having fun with
25 your friends is what I think hunting is all about.
. 0060
1 Harvesting an animal is only a bonus to the
2 learning experience.
3 I believe that every youth should
4 have an opportunity to hunt -- go hunting. But if
5 their fathers cannot find the time to take them
6 all year long, they can find the time -- they
7 can't find the time to take them hunting in the
8 proposed October season. Letting youth hunters in
9 the field during special archery season, you are
10 taking away myself and many other archers and
11 (inaudible) of the time that we pay for to hunt
12 deer.
13 I am proof that you are never too
14 young to bow hunt and challenge you to try to get
15 more youths into archery; therefore, they can hunt
16 in October. Thank you for your time.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Joseph.
18 And dad is going to try to follow that act, huh?
19 MR. SIMONE: I don't know if I can.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Gilleland, will
21 you be prepared to speak after Mr. Simone, please.
22 MR. SIMONE: Thank you,
23 Commissioners. He wanted to come up and speak.
24 We came in from Houston this morning. He's a bow
25 hunter from this big. I mean, he's been going out
. 0061
1 with me for many years. The things that he said
2 to me, we put on a piece of paper that he thought
3 was right.
4 My questions to y'all are also the
5 same situation, where we have many exotics and hog
6 hunters. Why does it have to be only a deer youth
7 only weekend? Why can't we propose other animals
8 and other game for our youth only weekend? That
9 way we can get youth in the field. I know many
10 ranchers would love to have hogs taken off. We
11 have a ranch in South Texas that we bring bow
12 hunts only. I let kids hunt free. I am noticing
13 more and more father-son hunts that bring your son
14 in for free.
15 There's a lot of ways that can be
16 put together that we can allow youths to hunt.
17 Dove hunting, that's where I started out was dove
18 hunting, bird hunting. I'm sure that everybody
19 here that hunts didn't have to have a father have
20 a special weekend to go because we didn't have
21 those weekends earlier. We went when the season
22 started. Heck, once we got going, we were on our
23 own. I'm glad we changed it to -- the proposal
24 that has been changed not to take away the whole
25 October. And if y'all can see fit to allow that,
. 0062
1 that would be to my -- to everybody's best
2 interest. Thank you.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
4 Mr. Gilleland? And John Oneken, if you'd be
5 prepared to speak next.
6 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
7 Gilleland. I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which
8 is an animal rights organization on the Internet.
9 I want to -- I've given you a handout which is
10 from the Texas Register publication of the State
11 land proclamation and the statewide proclamation
12 and the state park proclamation. I've given it to
13 you for comparison so you can see on one piece of
14 paper that under the State park public land
15 proclamation, you're making an age limit of eight
16 years, eight year old for the youth hunt. That's
17 the minimum age, eight years old.
18 Now, on this hunt, the statewide,
19 there is no minimum. It's 16 and below. Flip
20 over the page, you can see 16 and below. Also,
21 I've marked in yellow you can see there's no
22 change from what it was before. It's always been
23 youth hunt, 16 and below. And I'd like to give
24 you some comments that are in the Dallas Morning
25 News relative to the age of youth hunts that's
. 0063
1 written by Sasser and is published in the Dallas
2 Morning News for the 1st of February. And I agree
3 with him wholeheartedly when he says that it's a
4 subterfuge. The hunters -- the fathers are taking
5 advantage of the situation and just using the
6 children's name to kill more deer. And he says --
7 and I agree him wholeheartedly -- he's talking
8 about these hunts.
9 He says the youngest applicant drawn
10 was two years old and he may have thrown a tantrum
11 had he not been drawn. He says here, "But the dad
12 is the real hunter." I'm sure you-all have read
13 this. I'm just reading excerpts from it.
14 And then Ray says, "The real tragedy
15 is" -- and I'm quoting -- "The real tragedy is
16 that parents would use their children to
17 circumvent game laws are teaching their kids to be
18 dishonest." And then he says, "While the State
19 hopes to tighten the screws on deer hunters in
20 diapers" -- literally, a two year old is still in
21 diapers and was authorized to hunt deer under your
22 rules. "They are proposing expansion of youth
23 hunting." And then Ray says, if unscrupulous --
24 quote, "If unscrupulous adults are using their
25 children to gain access to WMA hunts, aren't the
. 0064
1 same people taking advantage of the youth hunting
2 season? Sure they are." Unquote.
3 So what I'm telling you is is that
4 you're contributing to the fraud of allowing
5 adults to use their children. If a man has ten
6 children, if he has a baby one day old -- if you
7 read your own outdoor rules, if he has a baby one
8 day old --
9 MR. SANSOM: Thank you,
10 Mr. Gilliland.
11 MR. GILLELAND: -- that one-day-old
12 baby can have a deer. There is no age limit by
13 your rule. A hunting license --
14 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Gilleland, your
15 time is up.
16 MR. GILLELAND: -- is required by
17 any person regardless of age. Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: John Oneken? And
19 Walt Glasscock, if you'd be prepared to speak
20 next.
21 MR. ONEKEN: Thank you. My name is
22 John Oneken. My family has been here in Texas
23 since about 1850. We own -- currently we own --
24 we're down to about 500 acres now. And all that
25 property remains that we have is in Colorado
. 0065
1 County. I've been pretty fortunate in that I have
2 been able to hunt all over Texas, South Texas,
3 West Texas, North Texas, Central Texas. I've been
4 on some pretty nice places that I've really been
5 impressed with.
6 The last few years I've really
7 gotten more interested, I guess I'm getting a
8 little old, I don't know, more interested in
9 focusing a little more on the property that we own
10 and hunting on that property or trying to do
11 something to enhance the hunting ability on that
12 property. One of the problems that we run into
13 that I think is a significant cause is properties
14 around us being broken up. And we have a lot, lot
15 more hunters now out there on small tracts of
16 land.
17 They may not hunt a lot of days, but
18 where we are, it's a one-buck county area. And
19 you put 100 out there, and he goes out and hunts,
20 and he's allowed one buck, well, the only buck he
21 might see out there might be a spike. It might be
22 a pork horn, and he's probably going to shoot it.
23 And if he thinks about, well, I am going to wait
24 and let it be a six year old or eight year old,
25 and he says, well, my neighbor is going to shoot
. 0066
1 it so I better shoot it.
2 So one of the things I saw, I got a
3 copy from one of our colleagues. I've been to
4 school at Texas A & M. It's a booklet they just
5 put out this last fall called Fragmented Lands put
6 out by the Wildlife and Fishery Service out there
7 in conjunction with the real estate commission.
8 But the discussions in there focus around land
9 being broken down smaller and smaller.
10 And according to this report study
11 they've done, about 60 percent of land being sold
12 nowadays is being sold for recreational purposes.
13 And that recreational purpose is defined as
14 fishing, hunting, horseback riding or
15 approximately 40 percent for investment and
16 agriculture for the remainder of the sales.
17 So the biggest problem I see that we
18 face out there right now is the decline of deer
19 population. Now, this is just in certain areas,
20 not necessarily statewide. And I think we need
21 some kind of help to do something to improve the
22 situation we're faced with where our deer
23 population is declining there.
24 For the last two years on our
25 property there, we have three different types of
. 0067
1 land right now. One is at a co-op, one is
2 low-fence property, and we have another tract of
3 land that we went and high fenced.
4 On the co-op property, it's great.
5 The problem we run into there is, we're on the
6 fringe of the co-op, and the neighbors around us
7 that aren't in the co-op tend to shoot everything
8 that crosses the fence with a horn. And so that
9 hurts us there. On the low fence property in
10 another area not in the co-op, the last two years
11 during deer season I did not even see a deer with
12 a horn.
13 Anyway, I thank you for your time
14 and hope you consider that in many future
15 proposals.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
17 Mr. Glasscock. And David Langford, if you'd be
18 prepared to speak last.
19 MR. GLASSCOCK: Thank you,
20 Commissioners and each of you for giving us this
21 opportunity. And we thank you for your hard work.
22 Some of you received this yesterday, and we would
23 appreciate your consideration. I'm Walt Glasscock
24 with the Texas Sportsmen's Association. And our
25 concerns as Mr. Oneken has indicated his concerns
. 0068
1 are, deer population depletion. We have problems,
2 as you know, with automobiles, coyotes, fire ants
3 and increasing numbers of small parcels of land
4 fragmentation.
5 We personally as an organization
6 have spent thousands of dollars on coyote
7 harvesting, trying to improve the habitat in that
8 fashion. We've purchased two mechanical deer for
9 local game wardens to help in deterring road
10 hunting by poachers.
11 For ten years we have approached
12 Texas Parks and Wildlife with a desire for some
13 regulations that would help remedy the problem of
14 depleted deer numbers. We have had several
15 promises only to have been disappointed and
16 disillusioned in the past. Our plea to you would
17 be to consider earnestly a three-year experiment,
18 at least three years with four or five contiguous
19 counties: Austin County, Colorado County, Fayette
20 County, Lavaca County, and possibly Washington
21 County.
22 These are the areas we've been
23 surveying, the areas where our headquarters is
24 located, and most of our membership there, though,
25 we have members statewide and some out of state.
. 0069
1 We would like to see buck deer not
2 be killed unless they have at least four points on
3 one antlered side, meaning that if a hunter sees a
4 buck with four points on one side and he goes up
5 to it and he only has two or three on the other
6 side, he's not penalized. He saw four points. It
7 would also give opportunity for the hunter to
8 spend a little more time determining whether that
9 deer is legal or not, which could be a real safety
10 factor.
11 Also, we would recommend that
12 hunting co-ops of a thousand acres be considered
13 exempt from these regulations because we think
14 they're going about what they're doing in the best
15 possible fashion. But with the fragmentation,
16 people going out -- and we have an area of 700 and
17 some odd acres, we figured out there's an about
18 100 for every 20 acres, on that particular.
19 There's eight parcels together. And that creates
20 a real problem. And what Mr. Oneken says is the
21 experience of a number of people that I've visited
22 with over the last two years hunted for two years
23 in our area and not seen a single buck of any
24 size. People, we must have some help. Would you
25 consider this? Thank you for that.
. 0070
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
2 Mr. Langford, please?
3 MR. LANGFORD: Good morning,
4 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. I'm
5 David Langford representing Texas Wildlife
6 Association. I'd like to say how much I
7 appreciate working with Commissioner Ryan and
8 Commissioner Heath for the last six years. It
9 seems like only yesterday. It doesn't seem like
10 six years. And I hope that our input has helped
11 you in your service here and that my ramblings
12 have helped also. And I'm going to ramble a
13 little bit more today so you've only got one more
14 time to listen be to that.
15 We'd like to support staff
16 recommendations. I do have some thoughts about
17 the youth hunting weekend. While we would like to
18 have seen more available weekends in October, we
19 completely understand the bow hunters' position
20 and the confusion that may have been with the way
21 the -- they appeared in the Texas Register. We
22 commit that we will continue to work with the
23 Department and with our brothers and sisters in
24 the bow hunting community on programs to encourage
25 youth hunting.
. 0071
1 With that in mind, I'd like to go on
2 record with one statement. We've got to stop
3 talking about me. We've got to stop talking about
4 I. Everybody comes up here to this microphone
5 today, and they talk about me and my piece and
6 what I want to do. We've got to stop focusing on
7 me and I and being selfish. All of us have got to
8 stop focusing on ourselves, and we must focus on
9 the future of hunting.
10 And with that in mind, that's what
11 we all need to work towards, and I think we could
12 come up with these solutions. I'd like to -- that
13 ends my comments about the issue. But one comment
14 or a couple of comments was mentioned about the
15 cost of hunting. And y'all know that's a hot
16 button with me. Hunting is not expensive. Trophy
17 hunting is expensive. If you offer a landowner
18 the amount of money that a family of four would
19 spend on a first line movie to come to the ranch
20 for the weekend and bow hunt for rabbits, that
21 landowner would fall over in a dead faint.
22 Let's keep in mind a lot of the
23 other good comments that have been made here,
24 about varmints and feral hogs and all of the other
25 opportunities that there are for enjoying the
. 0072
1 outdoors while you're on a family experience which
2 may or may not include hunting and stop focusing
3 on the Boone and Crockett score of white-tailed
4 deer as the measure of the value of an outdoor
5 experience. And I thank you very much.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Langford, that
7 concludes the public comment. Doctor Cooke, do
8 you have any response to any of the comments
9 before Commission discussion? It seems to me
10 there are a couple of issues that we need to
11 discuss or I'd like Commission sentiment on.
12 First, let's perhaps talk about the
13 quail opening date. Doctor Cook, would you
14 refresh my memory of what the public comment was
15 on that proposal as published?
16 DR. COOKE: Public comment on the
17 proposal as it was published was 158 in favor, 88
18 in opposition. And I'm --
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: And as published, it
20 was published to open one week earlier.
21 DR. COOKE: One week earlier.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Every year.
23 DR. COOKE: Every year.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: And in response to
25 Commissioner Angelo's inquiry as of yesterday, you
. 0073
1 have a handout which would give us an alternative
2 of opening it the Saturday nearest October 28th,
3 which would open it one week earlier, roughly half
4 the time, and avoid any conflicts with the current
5 opening of deer season. So the Chair would
6 entertain commission comment of what direction we
7 might like to go on this portion of the
8 proclamation.
9 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Do you want to
10 try a motion on that portion of the --
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: I'd just kind of
12 like to get some sentiment of what might -- it
13 could be the form of a motion or just discussion,
14 either one.
15 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I'll go ahead
16 and move, then, that this be a part of the overall
17 motion, in other words, an amendment, I guess
18 you'd call it, to remain a motion, and that would
19 be the quail season opening on the Saturday
20 nearest October 28th.
21 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Second.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second.
23 Any further discussion? All in favor? Any
24 opposed?
25 (Motion passed unanimously.)
. 0074
1 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
2 the 2001-2002 Statewide Hunting and Fishing
3 Proclamation (located at Exhibit A), with
4 changes to the proposal as published in the
5 February 23, 2001, issue of the Texas
6 Register (25 TexReg 1664)."
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: So we shall add that
8 as an amendment to the proposed motion. The
9 second issue that seems to be -- needs to be
10 addressed, I think, is the issue of the youth
11 proposal, the youth hunting dates. Doctor Cooke,
12 to review again, the current proposal as
13 published, since we're not able to publish
14 options, as published would expand the youth
15 hunting weekends to include what dates?
16 DR. COOKE: All of the weekends in
17 October.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Which would be an
19 additional three?
20 DR. COOKE: Three. And three
21 weekends in January.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: For a total of six?
23 DR. COOKE: A total of six.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: What we heard today
25 seemed to be comments concerned with the October
. 0075
1 dates. In the comment that we've received prior
2 to today's meeting, to what degree did we receive
3 any comments of the January dates?
4 DR. COOKE: The only thing that I
5 could give you right off the cuff is that of those
6 who were opposed, there was a substantial
7 fraction -- and I don't recall what that fraction
8 was, but it was like 20 percent of the comments,
9 perhaps -- said that if we were restricting the
10 expansion to the January weekends or any of the
11 January weekends, that they would be in support;
12 that they were clearly identifying their
13 opposition to the October weekends, although the
14 gist of the other comments were more or less the
15 same.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: And just for review
17 again, the comments we received prior to today
18 were what in terms of --
19 DR. COOKE: 636 in opposition, 121
20 in favor.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Okay. And --
22 DR. COOKE: That's not including
23 several petitions that were brought in today.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: That were received
25 today, all of which were against?
. 0076
1 DR. COOKE: In opposition to it as
2 published.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: So it might be
4 helpful for us, in terms of discussing this, to
5 kind of break it in terms of the January proposal
6 and the October proposal. Because it seems to me
7 that the January proposal has a different public
8 sentiment than the October proposal. And the --
9 from the comments we've received and heard, I
10 think that the October portion of it does raise
11 what seem to be some legitimate issues worthy of
12 discussion. So the Chair would entertain comments
13 or discussion on this from the Commission.
14 COMMISSIONER AVILA: What I'd like
15 to understand is, we're increasing the number of
16 youth hunts. Correct?
17 DR. COOKE: The proposal would not
18 change the current weekend as it's provided. It
19 wouldn't change that at all. But it would provide
20 weekends that could be also identified in addition
21 to the current weekends.
22 COMMISSIONER AVILA: And they are in
23 October?
24 DR. COOKE: The remainder of October
25 or the month of January.
. 0077
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Three in October,
2 three in January.
3 DR. COOKE: As it was published.
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: As published.
5 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Well, I
6 personally believe that we ought to do everything
7 we can to increase the opportunity for youth to
8 hunt. And, you know, I understand the emotional
9 issue of the bow hunters that they have with this
10 special time of the year for them. But I think
11 that we're a big enough State, and I think there's
12 room for everybody. And I think that anything we
13 can do to provide an opportunity for children to
14 get out and hunt -- because, you know, we're in
15 great competition with many, many activities in
16 their lives during the fall months. And I think
17 all the opportunity we can give youth to hunt, I
18 think the better our future is going to be. And I
19 would -- personally I would totally support the
20 addition of the dates that you've proposed.
21 COMMISSIONER AVILA: And the
22 opposition is predominantly coming from the bow
23 hunting community, is that --
24 DR. COOKE: Primarily. Again, I
25 didn't -- we didn't break the comments down in
. 0078
1 that kind of a detail. It was a big stack of
2 them. We were trying to count them.
3 COMMISSIONER AVILA: It wasn't
4 Florida?
5 DR. COOKE: Right.
6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Mr. Chairman,
7 I, too, wholeheartedly support the concept of
8 encouraging youth hunting as much as possible. I
9 have certainly listened carefully to the positions
10 put forward by the bow hunters and would like to
11 assure them, as well as our colleagues, that the
12 concerns are being heard. I think we probably
13 will get an increasing number of bow hunters from
14 urban areas, where YMCAs, I'm told, and scouting
15 groups, particularly in those areas, are doing
16 quite a bit and encouraging the use of the bows in
17 parks and areas where they can do so, where many
18 don't have the opportunity to fire rifles and all.
19 So I'm confident that this activity is going to
20 increase in the future, particularly among young
21 people.
22 So to the extent that we can
23 accommodate both entities, I think it's certainly
24 wise for us to attempt to do so. And I'm
25 particularly grateful for the young man from the
. 0079
1 Houston area who came and spoke before us this
2 morning.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Nolan?
4 COMMISSIONER RYAN: I was
5 wondering, Jerry, on the issue of the abuse of the
6 age situation, do you have any feel for that?
7 DR. COOKE: I don't. We could
8 talk -- you know, Herb has discussed it about
9 public hunting. That's why we more or less
10 addressed that issue with the age limit. The
11 public hunting proclamation, which you'll hear
12 later. And I don't know anything about what law
13 enforcement may have experienced, and I don't know
14 if they have experienced anything. David might
15 have a feel for that.
16 COMMISSIONER RYAN: On our public
17 hunts, do we have an age restriction on our public
18 hunts?
19 DR. COOKE: One is being proposed
20 now. One is being proposed currently. We have
21 not had one before.
22 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Did we ask for
23 the ages of the children on those applications?
24 DR. COOKE: I believe date of birth
25 on the application. Age is on the applications,
. 0080
1 yes.
2 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Okay.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: As I recall from the
4 comments in the committee hearing yesterday -- and
5 Herb, correct me if I'm wrong. But as Doctor
6 Cooke said, we'll hear the proposal subsequent on
7 the agenda. But the proposal in front of us is to
8 put a minimum age of eight years old, which would
9 eliminate roughly 100 applicants from the youth,
10 the 17 and under pool, which was about 10 percent
11 or some such number.
12 MR. KOTHMAN: It would be less than
13 5 percent of the youth under 17 that applied last
14 year.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: 5 percent are
16 younger than eight, which the proposal would make
17 ineligible in subsequent years.
18 COMMISSIONER RYAN: But it would be
19 around 100?
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Around 100. And the
21 youngest person drawn was two?
22 MR. KOTHMAN: The youngest one that
23 applied was two, the youngest one was three. And
24 the 5 percent was 198 that would be impacted.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: It was 198 impacted.
. 0081
1 So anyway, that's a diversion that in reference to
2 comments.
3 DR. COOKE: I asked Herb, just for
4 clarification, we're only talking about the
5 drawing hunts.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Right, only drawn
7 hunts.
8 DR. COOKE: Quail hunts, dove hunts,
9 fishing opportunities on management areas of state
10 parks would not be affected by that proposed
11 change.
12 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Excuse me.
13 Would you restate that?
14 DR. COOKE: In other words, what he
15 was discussing about the public hunting
16 restriction, age eight and above is only for
17 drawing hunts. It wouldn't affect any quail
18 hunts, any dove hunts, any fishing opportunities
19 or any other form of recreation on a wildlife
20 management or State park. Only the drawn deer
21 hunts.
22 COMMISSIONER RYAN: But it would
23 affect all youth hunts, right?
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: That had a drawing.
25 DR. COOKE: Drawn hunts.
. 0082
1 COMMISSIONER RYAN: That had a
2 drawing. But qualifying for these youth weekends.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: No, no, no. Only on
4 public hunting. It's actually part of a different
5 proclamation.
6 COMMISSIONER RYAN: But we are going
7 to address that, too?
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: We are going to
9 address that later on the agenda today.
10 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: While we're
11 talking about age limits, what position would a
12 law enforcement officer take if confronted with
13 the situation the gentleman mentioned with a three
14 year old being put off as a youth hunter?
15 DR. COOKE: I don't know. I don't
16 know, and nobody wants to walk up.
17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Has that
18 situation been confronted in the field? It's
19 bound to have been, I think.
20 DR. COOKE: When I was area manager
21 at the Black Gap, it occurred once.
22 COMMISSIONER HENRY: He wants to
23 speak.
24 DR. COOKE: As I said, it happened
25 once when I was at Black Gap.
. 0083
1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: So you think
2 it's a pretty frequent abuse?
3 DR. COOKE: Black Gap is not on the
4 way to any place, sir. We had a pretty special
5 group of people that came out there.
6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I really would
7 like -- is there anyone that would like to respond
8 to that?
9 MR. LAWRENCE: Mr. Chairman,
10 Commissioners, my name is Roy Lawrence. I'm
11 Director of Field Operations. Mr. Angelo, could
12 you restate your question?
13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, the
14 gentleman mentioned an adult with a three year old
15 who professed to be taking the three year old on
16 the youth only weekend hunting experience. Would
17 that -- how would you deal with that?
18 MR. LAWRENCE: We encourage youth
19 hunts. And I would encourage a three year old to
20 hunt just like this young man was hunting here.
21 We don't have a problem with that.
22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: So you think a
23 three year old could actually handle a gun?
24 MR. LAWRENCE: I think they could,
25 with the father being present or the mother.
. 0084
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Other comments or
2 questions on this topic?
3 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Chairman,
4 with respect to the youth only hunts during the
5 October, I -- I've been impressed by the concerns
6 of the bow hunters and also by their willingness
7 to try to work with us to try to find other means
8 of encouraging youth to hunt. So I would
9 personally be in favor of adding only the weekend
10 in January that Mr. Cooke has proposed.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, sir.
12 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Lee, could I ask
13 you, to get an understanding of the bow hunters'
14 position and where they are on the bow hunting
15 stamp and the regional stamp, how that originated
16 so I'll have a better understanding of that?
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Could you give us a
18 little history of the stamp and how it originated,
19 et cetera?
20 DR. COOKE: Basically -- and I'm
21 sorry, I'm going to have to talk off the top of my
22 head as far as dates are concerned. There was a
23 statutory archery only season in Texas for many,
24 many years, many years. And it was designated in
25 law as beginning October 1 through the end of
. 0085
1 October. And this was part of the general law.
2 So it not only affected regulatory counties but
3 nonregulatory counties at all -- at that time.
4 Basically when the archery stamp
5 came about, it was either exactly with or
6 immediately following the loss of the statutory
7 season, which only affected general. Because we
8 had rules in place for an archery season in
9 regulatory counties. Basically what the archers
10 did was tax themselves. And, you know, we've
11 talked about user pay. LSBA was primarily the
12 group, to my understanding of the history of it,
13 that sponsored the bill to the legislature and
14 says, if you will provide us an archery only
15 season, we will pay for that privilege and help
16 defray the cost of any administration of that
17 season. That's the history of it.
18 COMMISSIONER RYAN: So basically,
19 we're giving them the opportunity to expand their
20 hunting opportunity they were paying in -- with a
21 stamp?
22 DR. COOKE: Correct.
23 COMMISSIONER RYAN: And so to hunt
24 those additional early weekends, they have to have
25 that stamp.
. 0086
1 DR. COOKE: Correct.
2 COMMISSIONER RYAN: But during the
3 regular hunting season, they don't have to have a
4 stamp?
5 DR. COOKE: If an archer is only
6 hunting during the general season, they only have
7 to have the licenses that every other general
8 hunter has. No stamp is required to hunt with a
9 bow and arrow during the general season.
10 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Okay. Now,
11 basically what we're talking about doing, except
12 it's a weekend only, is giving the youth the same
13 opportunity that the bow hunters have? The bow
14 hunters -- explain this to me -- isn't a weekend
15 only?
16 DR. COOKE: Correct.
17 COMMISSIONER RYAN: So they actually
18 get how many extra days?
19 DR. COOKE: The month of October.
20 COMMISSIONER RYAN: The whole month
21 of October.
22 DR. COOKE: Basically.
23 COMMISSIONER RYAN: So we're talking
24 about with the youth, three additional weekends in
25 October and three additional weekends in January?
. 0087
1 DR. COOKE: In January. And the
2 proposal is written such that an archer would not
3 be prohibited from hunting on those weekends. In
4 other words, this would only relate to youth
5 hunting with a gun.
6 COMMISSIONER AVILA: That's the key,
7 is the firearm.
8 The stamp is still in effect for the
9 month of October for bow hunters?
10 DR. COOKE: Correct. In fact, we
11 had to create special provisions in the MLD
12 program to ensure that the stamp is preserved.
13 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Well, I'm in
14 favor with what Commissioner Angelo said as well.
15 I think we all want to see an increase in youth
16 hunting. But I think, you know, we've done the
17 measure with the archers for the month of October.
18 They're paying for that -- you know, that
19 increased opportunity, and they certainly are
20 passionate about it. And I've been impressed by
21 that, too.
22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: You know, the
23 significant part from the bow hunter's standpoint,
24 I believe, is that if people are hunting with
25 rifles four weekends out of October, it's not that
. 0088
1 they are competing with them only on the weekends.
2 It's the fact that it disturbs the wildlife
3 population extensively throughout the whole month
4 in October on the properties where the rifle
5 hunting takes place. So it's not just interfering
6 with their weekends.
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Or adjacent to it if
8 it's small.
9 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Right.
10 Especially on a small place.
11 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Is there an age
12 limit on the youth for archery?
13 DR. COOKE: No. But there's a pound
14 restriction on the bow draw.
15 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Right. I know
16 that.
17 DR. COOKE: So it becomes an
18 indirect.
19 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Mr. Chairman,
20 just as a general comment on what seems not to be
21 a really clear-cut issue, my thinking here is that
22 a year ago --trying to look at all our
23 constituents, a year ago, the archers -- we
24 encumbered a week of theirs, if I understand
25 correctly, with rifle as well.
. 0089
1 Certainly everybody here is very
2 interested in youth hunting. And I don't -- in my
3 mind, just of logic, I can't, Jerry, get a
4 definitive direction one way or the other. I
5 can't -- I haven't heard much talk about January.
6 The concern of the archers seems to be October.
7 And Ernie, if I understand correctly what you're
8 saying, you would lean or be in favor of leave
9 October for the archers as it is. And where would
10 you be on January?
11 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: January, an
12 extra weekend for the youth only in January would
13 be fine, as proposed.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: There are three --
15 the proposal includes three January weekends --
16 DR. COOKE: The published proposal
17 included three.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: The published
19 proposal in those parts of the state where it
20 would otherwise be closed.
21 DR. COOKE: That's correct, as it
22 was. As we recommended, we recommended it at one,
23 the third.
24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Why did you
25 reduce it to one? I guess I didn't ask that
. 0090
1 earlier.
2 DR. COOKE: Well, the main is when
3 we looked at license sales, you see the peak, the
4 blip that appeared when the youth weekend was
5 provided. And there was a corresponding impact on
6 harvest. You can see that also. We have no
7 experience with the January situation. We've have
8 no experience with the change in population
9 behavior, say, as it related to hunting. To
10 provide a weekend to evaluate it and see if it has
11 an impact certainly is worthwhile. Whether or not
12 the experiment needs three weekends to be
13 determined is another matter entirely.
14 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I think one
15 weekend would be the desirable way to go.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Doctor Cooke, for
17 clarification, as published it was additional
18 three and three, and as proposed it is?
19 DR. COOKE: The third weekend in
20 January on properties that does not otherwise have
21 an open season, which would be the MLD properties.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: And as proposed in
23 October?
24 DR. COOKE: We did not propose that
25 as changed.
. 0091
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: No change. Okay.
2 So we published three and three, and what you're
3 coming here today as staff proposing is simply the
4 addition of one --
5 DR. COOKE: One weekend in January.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. I just
7 wanted to be sure to clarify that for everybody.
8 DR. COOKE: I'm sorry if I confused
9 you.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: So actually what
11 Commissioner Angelo is saying that you're in favor
12 of it as proposed rather than as published.
13 COMMISSIONER HEATH: You-all are
14 proposing one weekend in January, period? That's
15 what we're going to vote on? That's your
16 proposal? That's staff's proposal?
17 DR. COOKE: Correct.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's -- I'm not
19 sure I have a sense of consensus on the
20 Commission. I'd entertain a further comment or a
21 motion.
22 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Well, it sounds
23 like we are supporting what staff is recommending.
24 Right?
25 DR. COOKE: I hope so. I'm just
. 0092
1 standing here, sir. No point.
2 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Which is no
3 youth hunting in October?
4 DR. COOKE: No. To change the one
5 that is there but not to add one in October.
6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Chairman,
7 I would make the motion that as part of this
8 overall recommendation from the staff, that the
9 Commission approve the staff's recommendation with
10 respect to youth only, which is to leave the
11 present situation in October as it is and to add
12 the one weekend in January as described by
13 Mr. Cooke.
14 COMMISSIONER RYAN: I'll second it.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: A motion and a
16 second. Any further discussion? All in favor?
17 Any opposed? None appearing none opposed.
18 (Motion passed unanimously.)
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: So we have an
20 approved motion to accept staff's proposal on
21 youth only seasons.
22 DR. COOKE: And the changing wording
23 of the quail.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: As an amendment.
25 The changing of the quail. Are there any other
. 0093
1 issues on the overall proposal that we care to
2 discuss or -- I'll take a motion to approve the
3 whole darned thing.
4 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Before we do
5 that, I'd like to ask Mr. Cooke to comment on the
6 question about the antler point requirement in the
7 proposal that's been -- I know that's not --
8 that's not before us now, but just to comment on
9 that for something for the future.
10 DR. COOKE: We have -- we've worked
11 with Texas Sportsman's Association many times over
12 the years and have helped them work through
13 various proposals through the years. And we have
14 done -- we did a fairly extensive analysis of what
15 the impact would have been on a season had certain
16 antler characteristics not been legal. In other
17 words, you can never predict what's going to
18 happen, but you can say of those that were taken
19 in a previous season, this many would not have
20 been affected.
21 And it's going to be very difficult
22 for me to bring that off the top of my head
23 because at the time we were looking at making
24 legal spike bucks, which actually is a smaller
25 percentage of the middle-age class in that area.
. 0094
1 And it was like eight above, nine
2 above and ten above. They had variable impacts,
3 depending on what your goal was. If your goal was
4 to protect middle classes, that's a way to do
5 that. Because of the configuration and the status
6 of the population in that general area, eight and
7 above protected fewer age classes than, say, nine
8 above did or ten above. But it did say -- it did
9 protect animals in the middle age classes to a
10 certain extent. I'd be happy, very happy to
11 some -- you know, to provide you the analysis that
12 we had before. But I didn't bring it with me.
13 I'm sorry.
14 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I'm sure
15 you're still working with them to try to solve
16 whatever problems you may think exist.
17 DR. COOKE: Absolutely prepared to
18 work with them as we have in the past. We've had
19 proposals in the past, and they just never were
20 adopted, basically.
21 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Chairman,
22 I'd move approval of the recommendation of the
23 proposal from the staff regarding the statewide
24 hunting and fishing proclamation with the
25 amendments as made.
. 0095
1 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Second.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion is
3 seconded. Any further discussion? All in favor?
4 Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very
5 much.
6 (Motion passed unanimously.)
7 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Mr. Chairman,
8 I'd like to make one comment before we move on. I
9 think the concerns in these counties that were
10 brought up about the proposal of four points on
11 one side, I think there's a lot of people in the
12 Department that realize that we have a real
13 potential problem here in the future with the
14 fragmentation of properties in these areas. And I
15 think we're going to see that even more so
16 statewide as our population grows.
17 And I think from the Department's
18 standpoint, I think this is something that we
19 probably need to start addressing, trying to
20 figure out what we're going to do about this.
21 Because it's going to become a real issue. And I
22 think every year that we go, it becomes more and
23 more of an issue. And we're going to have to
24 address this at some point in time. And I think
25 from our standpoint that we probably need to put a
. 0096
1 task force or something together to start thinking
2 about proposals and how we're going to handle this
3 at some point in time when it finally comes to the
4 point that it has to be addressed. Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: That's a good point.
6 At this point I'd like to go out of order and take
7 Agenda Item 11, local park funding.
8 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11: ACTION - LOCAL PARK
9 FUNDING.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Representative
11 Hinojosa from the Edinburg area is in the
12 audience. And the Chair would like to recognize
13 him. We appreciate you coming out this morning to
14 be with us and having patience to bear with us.
15 You've probably learned more about bow hunting in
16 October than you ever thought you would, but --
17 but we can sign you up right outside. But I don't
18 think you'll qualify for the youth season.
19 REPRESENTATIVE HINOJOSA: No. I
20 don't think so, either.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: We appreciate you
22 coming out and being with us this morning and your
23 interest in what we're doing with the folks in
24 Edinburg.
25 MR. HOGSETT: Mr. Chairman, members
. 0097
1 of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett, Director of
2 the Recreation Grants Program in the State Parks
3 Division. Item Number 11 is the proposal for
4 funding of the Edinburg World Birding Center
5 satellite site. As you're aware, Rider 18 of the
6 Parks and Wildlife Appropriations Act for
7 2000-2001 requires the Department to support in
8 the amount of $500,000 each two satellite World
9 Birding Center sites.
10 The City of Edinburg was one of the
11 selected sites, as was the City of Harlingen. The
12 City of Edinburg has submitted an application for
13 $500,000 in matching funds, and they propose to
14 use that to develop an approximately 7,000 square
15 foot interpretive building facility for
16 interpretation of birding activities.
17 And our staff recommendation is that
18 funding for the development of the Edinburg World
19 Birding Center satellite facility in the amount of
20 $500,000 is approved from the Texas Recreation and
21 Parks account. I'd be glad to answer any
22 questions you might have.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no public
24 comment on this item this morning. Any questions
25 of Mr. Hogsett? The Chair would entertain a
. 0098
1 motion.
2 COMMISSIONER HEATH: I'd make a
3 motion that the Commission agree to the
4 recommendation as stated by Mr. Hogsett.
5 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: All in favor? Any
7 opposed? Motion carries. Thank you.
8 Congratulations to the folks in Edinburg.
9 (Motion passed unanimously.)
10 "Funding for the development of the Edinburg
11 World Birding Center satellite facility in the
12 amount of $500,000 is approved from the Texas
13 Recreation and Parks Account."
14 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, I would
15 like to also comment that the mayor of Edinburg is
16 here, along with Representative Hinojosa and to
17 say that throughout the effort to establish the
18 World Birding Center in the lower Rio Grande
19 Valley, Representative Hinojosa, as I'm sure the
20 senior member of the Valley Delegation has been a
21 force for leadership and tremendous support for
22 Parks and Wildlife. And I appreciate his support
23 in the legislature and him being here today.
24 I think they would -- these guys
25 would like to have a photograph with the check if
. 0099
1 you'd be willing to come down, just to make sure.
2 (Photographs taken.)
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, sir.
4 Mr. McCarty, please continue on Item 3.
5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3: ACTION - LEGISLATIVE RULE
6 REVIEW.
7 MR. McCARTY: Madam Chairman,
8 Commissioners, my name is Gene McCarty. I am
9 Chief of Staff of the Texas Parks and Wildlife.
10 I'm here today to present to you the next phase of
11 our legislative rules review. As you're aware
12 the House Bill 1 of the 75th Legislature directed
13 State agencies to review all regulations and
14 readopt, amend or repeal each rule. And this must
15 take place at least once every four years.
16 Through this process we've reviewed
17 nine of the ten chapters of Texas Parks and
18 Wildlife. We have one remaining after today. In
19 this last process, we published a notice of intent
20 to review Chapter 57, Fisheries and Chapter 65,
21 Wildlife in the February 23rd, 2001 issue of the
22 Texas Register. These two particular chapters are
23 reviewed quite often, and there is -- there's not
24 any recommendations for significant change except
25 in Chapter 65, which you've already taken action
. 0100
1 on.
2 Chapter 57, as you will see here,
3 has a number of sub chapters that are familiar to
4 you, such as harmful and potentially harmful
5 exotic fish and shell fish, mussels and clams,
6 commercially protected finfish in scientific
7 areas. And there is no recommendation for
8 change -- for any changes in this chapter. We've
9 received no comments on this chapter review up to
10 this point.
11 Chapter 65, which is the wildlife
12 chapter, contains the statewide hunting and
13 fishing proclamation which you just took action on
14 the proposed changes and a number of other areas
15 that you see quite often. And we've received no
16 comment on these -- this rule review and are
17 proposing no changes other than the ones that you
18 just took action on.
19 With that, the staff recommends that
20 the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopt with
21 changes to the proposed text as published in the
22 February 23, 2001 issue of the Texas Register the
23 contents of 31 Texas Administrative Code, Chapter
24 57, Fisheries, and Chapter 65, Wildlife. And I'll
25 entertain any questions.
. 0101
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no public
2 comment on this. Are there any questions or a
3 motion?
4 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: I move
5 approval.
6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion is seconded.
8 All in favor? Any opposed? Thank you very much,
9 Mr. McCarty.
10 (Motion passed unanimously.)
11 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
12 adopts, with changes to the proposed text as
13 published in the February 23, 2001, issue of
14 the Texas (26 TexReg 1757), the readoption of
15 the contents of 31 TAC Chapter 57 (Fisheries)
16 and Chapter 65 (Wildlife)."
17 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4: ACTION - PETITION FOR
18 RULEMAKING.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Jerry Cooke,
20 petition for rulemaking, please.
21 DR. COOKE: My name is Jerry Cooke,
22 Game Branch Chief for the Wildlife Division. And
23 I wanted to discuss with you or continue the
24 discussion that we began yesterday concerning the
25 petition for rulemaking.
. 0102
1 Mr. Louie Adams petitioned the
2 Department to allow archers during the general
3 season to use the same season conditions and bag
4 limits as they have in the special archery-only
5 season. This would basically waive an archer from
6 any permit requirements, antlerless deer permits
7 or MLD permits, LAMPS permits, whatever, during
8 the general season.
9 Our position or our statement that
10 we made yesterday is that this would -- we feel,
11 would be in conflict with our Chapter 61
12 obligation of providing reasonable and equitable
13 opportunity to hunters in the season. We have an
14 archery special season that has conditions that
15 anyone who wishes to participate may do so. In
16 the general season, we have different conditions.
17 And so therefore, staff would recommend that we
18 deny this petition.
19 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
20 Doctor Cooke. Any questions? We have one -- no,
21 we have no one signed up on this one.
22 COMMISSIONER HENRY: We have no one
23 on this?
24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: No one signed
25 up to speak on this one.
. 0103
1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval
2 of the agenda.
3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Second.
4 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you.
5 It's been moved by Commissioner Angelo and
6 seconded by Commissioner Idsal.
7 COMMISSIONER HENRY: May I have a
8 question, Doctor Cooke? Did you get input from
9 the archery association, although you said no
10 public comment on this matter?
11 DR. COOKE: Mr. Atkins -- I don't
12 want to speak for anybody else, obviously. But
13 the discussion that I had with him earlier, they
14 supported our recommendation on this issue. And I
15 think if you wished for him to speak to that, he's
16 here. He remained after the last comment, to show
17 that support, if you wish to see it. He didn't
18 sign up because he didn't think about --
19 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Mr. Chairman, I
20 recognize that this would be extraordinary, maybe.
21 Would it be possible to get a suspension of the
22 rules or in this case to allow the Association to
23 speak to this issue, since we've heard so much on
24 it this morning so far?
25 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: I think that
. 0104
1 would be fine, Commissioner Henry, if they wish to
2 speak on the issue. Is anyone willing to come
3 forward? Thank you, Doctor Cooke. Appreciate
4 that. Would you state your name, please, for the
5 record.
6 MR. ACTKINSON: Certainly. I'm
7 Tomme Actkinson. I'm the president of LSBA, Lone
8 Star Bow Hunter Association. This has just come
9 to my attention here in the last few weeks. So
10 really we haven't spent a lot of time thinking on
11 it. It's certainly not a burning issue with the
12 Lone Star Bow Hunter Association. My
13 understanding of this is that what Mr. Adams
14 wishes to do, is, since he hunts exclusively with
15 the bow in East Texas, he wants to -- he wants to
16 have the right to take a doe without having a
17 special permit as long as he's using archery
18 equipment in that particular time.
19 Quite frankly, my concern is, is I
20 don't want this to cloud the issue. We already
21 have a special archery season in October which is
22 very dear to us, as you observed earlier. You
23 know, so rather than have it cloud the issue of
24 bow hunters wanting to have extra bow hunting
25 privileges and extra time during the general
. 0105
1 season, which other people don't have, I don't
2 want that issue to be clouded. And I would
3 support Parks and Wildlife's recommendation that
4 it be denied.
5 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
6 Mr. Atkinson.
7 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Thank you,
8 Madam Chair.
9 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Yes. We have
10 before the Commission a motion to accept the staff
11 recommendation. Any further discussion? Hearing
12 none, then all in favor say aye. Those opposed,
13 nay? Motion carries. Thank you.
14 (Motion passed unanimously.)
15 "Staff recommends denial of the petition on the
16 basis that current regulations concerning bag
17 limits are applicable to all hunters equally,
18 regardless of means or methods. Staff concurs
19 with the petitioners assertion that additional
20 harvest by means of archery would result in
21 negligible impact on populations; however,
22 staff also believes that the provision of
23 separable special bag limits contingent upon
24 means and methods is inconsistent with the
25 provisions of the Wildlife Conservation Act of
. 0106
1 1983 (Parks and Wildlife Code, Chapter 61),
2 which states that the purpose of the Chapter is
3 to insure reasonable and equitable enjoyment of
4 the privileges of ownership and pursuit of
5 wildlife resources."
6 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5: ACTION - AMENDMENTS TO THE
7 PUBLIC LANDS PROCLAMATION ESTABLISHMENT OF AN
8 OPEN SEASON ON PUBLIC LANDS 2001-2001 PROPOSED
9 HUNTING ACTIVITIES ON STATE PARKS.
10 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Next item is
11 Item 5, amendments to the public lands
12 proclamation and proposed hunting activities on
13 state parks.
14 MR. KOTHMANN: Madam Chairman,
15 members of the Commission, my name is Herb
16 Kothmann. I'm the Director of Public Hunts. I'll
17 be presenting proposals concerning amendments to
18 the public lands proclamation and establishment of
19 a 2001-2002 open season on public lands and
20 2001-2002 public hunts on state parks.
21 The first portion of this
22 presentation deals with proposed amendments to the
23 public lands proclamation. The first proposal is
24 that staff proposes to amend the application
25 section to update the listing and add two new
. 0107
1 areas that were recently acquired: the Lake
2 McClellan Recreation Area and the Nannie
3 Stringfellow Wildlife Management Area.
4 Current rules waive the access
5 permit requirement for nonhunting adult who is
6 supervising a permitted minor in a youth-only
7 hunt. And again, we're speaking only of public
8 hunts.
9 Terms of public hunting lease
10 agreements that the Department has with
11 cooperating landowners require all adults entering
12 those lands to possess a valid access permit.
13 This is in conflict -- or this conflict can be
14 eliminated by amending the rules to require all
15 adults entering public hunting lands to possess a
16 valid access permit and clarifying that the fees
17 for special and regular permits are waived for the
18 supervising adults during these youth-only hunts.
19 On this proposal public comment
20 received was 69 in favor and 28 opposed. Staff
21 proposes a change which would allow the Department
22 to retain application fees submitted with invalid
23 applications for a special permit. It is no
24 longer possible for the agency to return the
25 personal checks with invalid applications because
. 0108
1 the revenue is removed prior to the time we edit
2 the application to determine whether they're valid
3 or invalid. And the cost of processing the
4 invalid ones is as much to us as the valid ones.
5 So we're recommending that we retain those fees as
6 a handling charge. Public comment on this
7 proposal is 57 in favor and 37 opposed.
8 Some public hunts for small game are
9 conducted by regular or a daily permit. The
10 regular permit fee is waived for people who
11 possess the annual $40 permit. However, current
12 rules require that we issue those people the daily
13 permit with waiving the fees for the daily permit.
14 This delays the check-in procedure
15 and creates unnecessary paperwork. Staff proposes
16 to waive this requirement for issuance of the
17 duplicate permit. On this proposal we had 84 for
18 and ten opposed. I have attempted to revise the
19 wording on this that hopefully will be more clear
20 than what we spoke about yesterday.
21 On occasion an error may be made in
22 data entry of the handwritten information on
23 application cards. Consequently an applicant may
24 be drawn for a hunt other than the one for which
25 they applied. Current rules require the
. 0109
1 preference points for the applicant in the
2 concerned hunt category to be reinstated and, if
3 the Department detects the error prior to the
4 hunt, the permit is canceled and the applicant is
5 not authorized to participate in the hunt.
6 However, in many cases the applicant
7 wishes to accept that hunt and is willing to
8 forfeit their accrued preference points in the
9 drawings. The proposed changed would clarify that
10 the applicant's preference points for the
11 concerned hunt category would not be reinstated if
12 the applicant wishes to accept the hunt in this
13 event. And the proposed change would also provide
14 the applicant with the option of making that
15 choice. The public comment on this issue -- and
16 like I say, we proposed it under, I think,
17 somewhat confusing wording -- was slightly in
18 favor, 42 for, 32 opposed. I do think this would
19 be greatly favorable to the public applicants.
20 Staff recommends amending the rules
21 that clarify requirements for checkin and checkout
22 during public hunts by the regular permit. If
23 we -- if the Commission approves the
24 recommendation of not issuing that duplicate
25 permit, we're simply asking that people hunting on
. 0110
1 those hunts under either of the two types of
2 permits must comply with the checkin and checkout
3 procedures. Okay.
4 Establishing a minimum age for
5 participation in public hunts by special permits.
6 It is proposed to require applicants in drawings
7 for public hunts by special permit to be a minimum
8 of eight years of age at the time of application.
9 Staff believes the minimum age
10 requirement would promote safety for all
11 participants in the public hunts, improve
12 compliance with regulations by increasing the
13 likelihood that participants have the physical
14 development and skills needed to actively
15 participate.
16 And we feel that it would result in
17 a more effective utilization of a limited number
18 of special permits that the agency has to offer.
19 The proposed change would have disqualified only 5
20 percent of the youth under age 17 who applied in
21 the drawings last year, 198 of the 3,625 youth and
22 less than three-tenths of 1 percent of the total
23 applicants that we had in last year's drawing.
24 The proposed minimum age restriction
25 would not apply to public hunts conducted by
. 0111
1 regular permit or annual public hunting permit.
2 We're speaking about only the drawings for the big
3 game hunts. Public comment on this issue was very
4 strongly for, 82 for and 14 opposed. I might
5 mention as a side light, the discussion we had a
6 moment ago about this on the statewide
7 regulations, on these lands the Department is
8 acting as the landowner.
9 In the case of statewide rules, the
10 landowner makes those decisions. These are the
11 rules that we are making for us as the landowner
12 or you are.
13 The second portion of this
14 presentation deals with the recommendations for
15 public hunts on state parks. Staff proposes to
16 conduct public hunts on 45 units of the State
17 Parks' System during the 2001-2002 season. The 45
18 units include the 42 units hunted last year or
19 approved for hunting last year by the Commission
20 plus one unit that had been hunted in previous
21 years, Dinosaur Valley, and two new units that
22 have not previously been hunted, Cooper Lake,
23 South Sulfur and the Lake Bob Sandlin.
24 The following is a series of three
25 slides that list in alphabetical order the names
. 0112
1 of those 45 state park units. Specific
2 recommendations for each of those parks is shown
3 in your Exhibit B of your agenda item. This first
4 slide shows the names of the first 14 of those
5 parks. The second slide lists the following 17
6 parks on that list of 45. And this slide lists
7 the final 14 of the 45 recommended for hunts. The
8 proposals for state park hunts were developed
9 through joint effort of staff of the State Park
10 Division and the Wildlife Division.
11 They have received signature
12 approval of all concerned field staff and in-line
13 supervisors. They were presented at the statewide
14 hearings held around the state. The recommended
15 hunt dates, as shown in Exhibit B, minimize impact
16 on park visitation. Those hunts that are
17 youth-only are scheduled on days when kids are out
18 of school, weekends and holiday periods, although
19 we did avoid the -- you know, holding these youth
20 hunts on major holidays because those are also big
21 for general visitation activities.
22 The recommendations are considered
23 by staff to be a biologically sound and address
24 the Commission's mandate to provide maximum
25 opportunity for public hunting on departmental
. 0113
1 lands as appropriate for individual sites. The
2 recommended hunts address management needs and
3 provide for additional public use opportunity.
4 Public comment received on this proposal for state
5 park hunts was 90 for and one opposed.
6 The final portion of my presentation
7 deals with the need for the Commission to
8 prescribe an open season on public hunting lands
9 in order for public hunts to be conducted. Parks
10 and Wildlife Code authorizes the Commission to
11 prescribe an open season for hunting on wildlife
12 management areas and public hunting lands in
13 accordance with sound biological management
14 practices. And staff recommends the Commission
15 prescribe an open season on public hunting lands
16 to run from September 1, 2001 to August 31, 2002.
17 Staff recommends the Parks and
18 Wildlife Commission adopt the following motions,
19 which are in three parts: One, the Texas Parks
20 and Wildlife Commission adopts amendments to 31
21 TAC, Section 65.190, 65.193, 65.197, 65.198 and
22 65.202 concerning the public lands proclamation
23 with changes to the proposed text as published in
24 the February 23rd, 2001 issue of Texas Register.
25 Part two, the Texas Parks and
. 0114
1 Wildlife Commission authorizes the hunting
2 activities designated in Exhibit B to be conducted
3 on the listed units of the State Park System. And
4 part three, the Texas Parks and Wildlife
5 Commission authorizes an open hunting season on
6 public hunting lands to run from September 1, 2001
7 to August 31, 2002.
8 Madam Chairman, this concludes my
9 presentation. Do you have any questions?
10 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
11 Mr. Kothmann. Any questions from any of the
12 members? Hearing none, then. We do have public
13 comment on this item. And first is Ellis
14 Gilleland. Mr. Gilleland? And following
15 Mr. Gilleland, David Langford.
16 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
17 Gilleland. I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which
18 is a animal rights organization on the Internet.
19 As published in the Texas Register, there are a
20 total of 53 different units that are being covered
21 under this public lands aspect. In addition to
22 state parks, there are scientific areas,
23 recreation areas and wildlife management areas, 53
24 different categories of units.
25 Within that 53, one category is
. 0115
1 state parks. My recommendation to you is to
2 eliminate from the state parks category those
3 state parks which have tamed animals which are
4 going to be hunted. And I speak for Choke Canyon
5 State Park, which I know specifically. You walk
6 through Choke Canyon State Park with a can of
7 corn, and you rattle the can of corn. And the
8 deer come out and come up to you to be petted and
9 to be hand fed.
10 So I'm asking you to exempt from
11 this not of -- all the wildlife management areas
12 and all the others. I'm asking you to exempt from
13 the State One category, the state park category
14 the state parks. They have tame animals. When
15 you walk through them with a can of corn and you
16 rattle it, the deer come running up to you.
17 It's my understanding that there is
18 a concept the hunters have that has to do with
19 fair chase to the extent that Boone and Crockett
20 does not count, animals shot behind a high fence
21 mark. So that's what I'm asking you. I'm asking
22 you to reach for an ethical rung on the ladder and
23 climb up to it. And that ethical rung is to
24 actually put teeth into the ethical concept if
25 there be such that hunters do not shoot animals
. 0116
1 without a fair chase.
2 And I don't think it's fair chase to
3 rattle a can of corn and animals come up to you
4 and then you shoot them. So I'm asking you to
5 exempt those animals that are tame in those few
6 state parks that have them. Thank you.
7 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
8 Mr. Gilleland. Mr. Langford?
9 MR. LANGFORD: Thank you. I'm David
10 Langford, Texas Wildlife Association and would
11 like to wholeheartedly support the staff
12 recommendation on this issue and also to
13 congratulate Mr. Kothmann for 35 years. That's
14 pretty amazing. Thank you.
15 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
16 Mr. Langford. That concludes the public testimony
17 on Agenda Item Number 5. Is there any comment by
18 any of the Commissioners or any questions of
19 Mr. Kothmann? Hearing none, the Chair would
20 entertain a motion for approval of Agenda Item
21 Number 5.
22 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved.
23 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you. Any
25 further discussion? All in favor say aye. Those
. 0117
1 opposed nay? Motion carries. Thank you.
2 (Motion passed unanimously.)
3 "1. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
4 adopts amendments to 31 TAC 65.190, 65.193,
5 65.197, 65.198, and 65.202, concerning the
6 Public Lands Proclamation, with changes to the
7 proposed text as published in the February
8 23, 2001, issue of the Texas (25 TexReg 1680).
9
10 2. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
11 authorizes the hunting activities designated in
12 Exhibit B to be conducted on the listed units
13 of the state park system.
14
15 3. The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
16 authorizes an open hunting season on public
17 hunting lands to run from September 1, 2001 to
18 August 31, 2002."
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
20 Gary Graham, briefing, World Birding Center.
21 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6: BRIEFING - WORLD BIRDING
22 CENTER.
23 (WHEREUPON, a briefing
24 item was presented to the
25 Commissioners, after which,
. 0118
1 the following proceedings
2 were had:)
3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7: ACTION - SCIENTIFIC BREEDER
4 PROCLAMATION.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Scientific breeder
6 proclamation, Doctor Cooke. Basically as I
7 understand it, your proposal is that we withdraw
8 this from today's agenda?
9 DR. COOKE: Exactly. That's the
10 short version. I liked it better.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: So done. We'll
12 withdraw this and look forward to hearing from you
13 in May on revised proclamation.
14 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
15 amendments to 31 TAC 65.601, 65.602, 65.605,
16 and 65.607-65.610, concerning the Scientific
17 Breeder Proclamation, with changes to the
18 proposed text as published in the March 2,
19 2001, issue of the Texas Register (24 TexReg
20 1826)."
21 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8: BRIEFING - STATUS OF EASTERN
22 TURKEY RESTORATION PROGRAM.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Eastern wild
24 turkeys.
25 (WHEREUPON, a briefing
. 0119
1 item was presented to the
2 Commissioners, after which,
3 the following proceedings
4 were had:)
5 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9: BRIEFING - WYLER AERIAL
6 TRAMWAY - FRANKLIN MOUNTAINS STATE PARK.
7 (WHEREUPON, a briefing
8 item was presented to the
9 Commissioners, after which,
10 the following proceedings
11 were had:)
12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: ACTION - REGIONAL PARK
13 FUNDING.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Item 10, Regional
15 park funding, Tim Hogsett, please.
16 MR. HOGSETT: Mr. Chairman, members
17 of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett, Director of
18 Recreation Grants Program in the State Parks
19 Division. We're bringing forward for your
20 consideration today regional park grants. This
21 will be the second of two -- second review in our
22 pilot program for regional parks. You're
23 probably -- you'll be aware that the program is
24 designed to support multi-jurisdictional projects
25 that have regional significance in the
. 0120
1 metropolitan areas of the state.
2 This was the result of an A & M --
3 Texas A & M study that was done a few years back
4 showing that that was a great need in the State of
5 Texas. Projects can be of two different types.
6 They can be intensive use recreation or regional
7 conservation and recreation projects. And as I
8 said, this is the second review. We're
9 recommending three projects.
10 There were 12 applications which
11 were submitted to us, requesting 11.9 million
12 dollars. We use our scoring system to evaluate
13 those 12 projects, rank ordered them and are
14 recommending the funding of the first three
15 projects. Those being the San Antonio-Medina
16 River Regional Park, the Arlington-Trinity River
17 Regional Park, and the League City-Clear Creek
18 Regional Park.
19 All three of these involve major
20 land acquisitions, conservation elements, and are
21 associated with major river access.
22 Having said that, the staff
23 recommendation is that funding for projects listed
24 in Exhibit A in the amount of $3,163,599 is
25 approved, as described for individual projects in
. 0121
1 Exhibit B. And I'd be happy to answer any
2 questions that you might have.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: There are some
4 people who signed up to speak on this one. And
5 if -- I appreciate their patience in bearing with
6 us through a long agenda today. Pete Jamison from
7 the City of Arlington, if you'd come forward. And
8 Dale Bransford from San Antonio, if you'd be ready
9 to come up next. Thank you very much, Mr.
10 Jamison, for being patient.
11 MR. JAMISON: Thank you,
12 Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission. We're
13 very appreciative this funding of the
14 appropriations to the regional grant program.
15 This program is extremely important because it
16 really allows us to invest in some of our most
17 popular parks and indeed some of our most
18 congested parks. River Legacy Parks which really
19 serves a regional area between Fort Worth and
20 Grand Prairie -- well, probably one of our most
21 popular parks, certainly Arlington's most popular
22 park. And it's so congested that recently this
23 past weekend we received a number of complaint
24 about the time it takes just to exit the park.
25 This grant will give us the
. 0122
1 opportunity to provide a second entrance at the
2 park and to also link over eight miles of trails
3 along the Trinity River. We want to express our
4 appreciation to the Texas Parks and Wildlife
5 staff, Tim Hogsett and Elaine Dill in particular,
6 for all of their efforts and support of the
7 Arlington Parks and Recreation Department. Thank
8 you.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
10 Dale Bransford. And Ed Sebasta from League City
11 if you will be ready. Thank you. Good morning or
12 afternoon, I gather.
13 MR. BRANSFORD: Good afternoon,
14 Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen of the
15 Commission. I'm Dale Bransford, Park Projects
16 Manager with the City of San Antonio and on behalf
17 of our agency and our six other partners in this
18 regional park project, we want to express to you
19 our encouragement that you will accept the staff
20 recommendation to grant the award for the Medina
21 River Regional Park Project. In fact, we would we
22 look forward to welcoming the Texas Parks and
23 Wildlife Department as one of the partners with us
24 in that project.
25 We are very excited about it, as you
. 0123
1 might suspect. The project is a very unique
2 resource in south Bexar County. It will certainly
3 serve the citizens of San Antonio and Bexar
4 County, but we're also envisioning it being a
5 strong integral part of the park and recreation
6 system in south Central Texas.
7 The grant will allow us to acquire
8 land and develop the unique site along an
9 undisturbed portion of the Medina River that will
10 be used to enhance its rich cultural and natural
11 resources.
12 In addition to the grant
13 specifically, I also wanted to acknowledge and
14 encourage the Commission to continue the regional
15 park grant program. Its short life as a pilot
16 program has proven to be a very vital tool, I
17 believe, in your tool kit of grant assistance
18 that can be made available to eligible applicants
19 around the state along with a variety of other
20 grant programs that you fund, this one
21 particularly with its vision to emphasize
22 partnerships and regional concepts is already
23 proving to be very much needed and very
24 successful. And we encourage and hope that the
25 Commission and the staff will continue to offer
. 0124
1 that program to us at the local level.
2 And also, as Pete mentioned, wanted
3 to thank the staff of the Grants and Aid Division
4 for all their support on this project and others
5 that we've benefited from in the past. Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
7 Ed Sebasta. And Rhonda Seirus, you'll be up next.
8 MR. SEBASTA: Good afternoon,
9 Chairman, Commissioners. I'm city councilman Ed
10 Sebasta from the great city of League City. And
11 just would like to take a few moments to thank
12 y'all very much for your consideration as well as
13 thanking your staff for recommending this very
14 important project to not only the folks in League
15 City but the surrounding communities in Galveston
16 County.
17 In the early '90s we started on our
18 journey in League City with our master parks plan.
19 When we put that footprint down in the sand in our
20 blueprint, if you will, this piece of the puzzle
21 we recognized back then was very important to
22 preserving the natural resource that we have
23 running through League City, and that's Clear
24 Creek. As we've gone along on that journey, we're
25 at this point now and quite frankly we're very
. 0125
1 excited about it. Our citizens are very excited
2 about it. And that's pretty much all I'm going to
3 say. We have our parks board members here, and
4 I'm going to yield the rest of the time to them
5 because those are the true heroes. Those are our
6 volunteers that usually never get the credit and
7 usually get a lot of the flack from our citizens.
8 As an elected official I never get flack from the
9 citizens, so... Thank you very much.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
11 Ms. Seirus. And Barbara Meeks, if you'll be up
12 next, please. Thank you.
13 MS. SEIRUS: Commissioners, good
14 afternoon. My name is Rhonda Seirus. I'm the
15 Park and Recreation superintendent for the City of
16 League City. And we are here to request your
17 support for the Clear Creek Nature Project in
18 League City. League City feels this is an
19 important component of our ecosystem in our region
20 and also our watershed.
21 We sincerely appreciate your support
22 and efforts to preserve park land in the State of
23 Texas. And I would also like to take this
24 opportunity to thank Elaine Dill and Tim Hogsett
25 for all their support with our projects. Thank
. 0126
1 you.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you very much.
3 Ms. Meeks. And Debbie McDonald, you'll be after
4 Ms. Meeks. Thank you.
5 MS. MEEKS: Good afternoon,
6 Mr. Chairman, Commissioners. I'm Barbara
7 Meeks,and I am a member of the parks board in
8 League City, and probably more important than
9 that, I have lived in League City for well over 30
10 years. I've seen land go from $1500 an acre to
11 well over $15,000 an acre. And a project like
12 this just would not be possible without
13 partnership. And certainly Texas Parks and
14 Wildlife is a terrific partner to have on this
15 project.
16 We've seen our natural habitat
17 quickly disappear. I know that we've seen that
18 all over parts of the State. And it turns out
19 that this particular piece of land will have some
20 very historical significance in that some of the
21 artifacts from the Midden right in the middle of
22 this area has been dated at Rice to go back to
23 5000 BC, making it the oldest Midden in that area.
24 So I do appreciate your time in
25 taking this into consideration. And we certainly
. 0127
1 do appreciate your support of the Clear Creek
2 Nature Center. Thank you.
3 MR. SANSOM: Mr. Chairman, I would
4 also like to comment that Ms. Meeks is also a
5 great supporter of Sea Center Texas. She sponsors
6 the Tarpon Tournament that provided very much
7 needed financial support for us there. I
8 appreciate it, Barbara.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: As do we all.
10 Ms. McDonald, please.
11 MS. McDONALD: Good afternoon. I'm
12 Debbie McDonald. I'm president of the park board
13 for the City of League City. And I just want to
14 say we are here to support the request for the
15 Clear Creek Nature Park. This is an important
16 multi-use -- excuse me, multi-jurisdiction park.
17 Just want to add our support. Thank you for your
18 support. Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no other
20 public comment. The Chair would entertain
21 discussion or a motion.
22 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Motion to accept
23 it.
24 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second it.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second.
. 0128
1 All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries.
2 Thank you.
3 (Motion passed unanimously.)
4 "Funding for projects listed in Exhibit A in
5 the amount of $3,163,599.00 is approved, as
6 described for individual projects in
7 Exhibit B."
8 AGENDA ITEM NO. 12: BRIEFING - TEXAS TECH
9 HISTORY EXHIBIT.
10 (WHEREUPON, a briefing
11 item was presented to the
12 Commissioners, after which,
13 the following proceedings
14 were had:)
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Hogsett? Let's
16 see, 11 we have taken care of. Item 12, I believe
17 Mr. Sansom covered adequately in his opening
18 statement. And we'll move to Item 13, Karen
19 Leslie, please
20 AGENDA ITEM NO. 13: ACTION - LAND
21 ACQUISITION - UVALDE COUNTY.
22 MS. LESLIE: I'm Karen Leslie in
23 Land Conservation. Chairman and Commissioners,
24 this is an item that reflects a summary of the
25 Conservation Committee executive session item
. 0129
1 presented yesterday that we discussed. The
2 property contains 35 acres. It fronts on the Frio
3 River, protects Garner State Park from undesirable
4 land uses. Are there any questions?
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: This item was
6 approved by the Conservation Committee in
7 executive session. And if there's no public
8 comment, the Chair would entertain a motion.
9 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval
10 of the recommendation.
11 COMMISSIONER RYAN: Second.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion is seconded.
13 Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed?
14 Hearing none, the motion passes. Thank you
15 (Motion passed unanimously.)
16 "The Executive Director is authorized to take
17 all steps necessary to consummate the
18 acquisition of approximately 35.05 acres in
19 Uvalde County as an addition to Garner
20 State Park."
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Ms. Leslie, would
22 you do Item 14 for us, Randall County.
23 AGENDA ITEM NO. 14: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION -
24 RANDALL COUNTY.
25 MS. LESLIE: Yes, sir. Chairman and
. 0130
1 Commissioners, this item reflects a summary of the
2 Conservation Committee executive session item
3 presented yesterday. The property contains 2,036
4 acres. It shares four miles common boundary with
5 the park.
6 The Amarillo Area Foundation has
7 agreed to endow the park for the purchase price of
8 $1.2 million for ten years. The Commission
9 desires that the Amarillo Area Foundation will
10 endow the park for $1.2 million with a guaranteed
11 payment of 5 percent annually over ten years. Any
12 questions?
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: There is no public
14 comment. And the Conservation Committee yesterday
15 approved this with the amendment that Ms. Leslie
16 referred to as a caveat for the purchase. The
17 Chair would entertain a motion.
18 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Second?
20 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion is seconded.
22 Any discussion? All in favor? Any opposed?
23 Motion carries. Thank you.
24 (Motion passed unanimously.)
25 "The Executive Director is authorized to
. 0131
1 purchase approximately 2,036 acres in Randall
2 county as an addition to Palo Duro Canyon State
3 Park with the condition that the Amarillo Area
4 Foundation will endow the park for
5 $1.2 million with a guaranteed payment of 5%
6 annually over ten years."
7 AGENDA ITEM NO. 15: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION -
8 BREWSTER COUNTY.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Jeff Francell,
10 Brewster County, please.
11 MR. FRANCELL: Ladies and gentlemen
12 of the Commission, I'm Jeff Francell, Director of
13 Land Acquisition for the Department. The property
14 I'm going to be talking about today is Black Gap
15 Wildlife Management area in Brewster County.
16 We're looking at two tracts. One is 80 acres, and
17 one is 160 acres. Any questions?
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no public
19 comment on this. Once again, it was heard and
20 approved in Conservation Committee. The Chair
21 would entertain a motion.
22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move
23 approval.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion. And a
25 second?
. 0132
1 COMMISSIONER HEATH: Second.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: All in favor? Any
3 opposed? Thank you very much.
4 (Motion passed unanimously.)
5 "The Executive Director is authorized to take
6 all necessary steps to consummate the
7 acquisition of approximately 240 acres in
8 Brewster County as an addition to Black Gap
9 Wildlife Management Area."
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Sansom, is there
11 any other business to come before this Commission
12 today?
13 MR. SANSOM: No, sir, there is not.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Being none, we stand
15 adjourned. Thank you.
16 *-*-*-*-*
17 (MEETING ADJOURNED.)
18 *-*-*-*-*
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
. 0133
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2 STATE OF TEXAS )
3 COUNTY OF TRAVIS )
4
5 I, MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, a Certified
6 Court Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do
7 hereby certify that the above and foregoing 119
8 pages constitute a full, true and correct
9 transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and
10 Wildlife Commission on APRIL 5, 2001, in the
11 Commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and
12 Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Travis
13 County, Texas.
14 I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record
15 was made by me a the time of the public meeting
16 and said stenographic notes were thereafter
17 reduced to computerized transcription under my
18 supervision and control.
19 WITNESS MY HAND this the 10TH day of MAY
20 2001.
21
22 MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, RPR, CSR NO. 3226
Expiration Date: 12-31-02
23 3101 Bee Caves Road
Centre II, Suite 220
24 Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557
25 EBS NO. 40492
. 0134
1
Lee M. Bass, Chairman
2
3
4 Carol E. Dinkins, Vice Chair
5
6
Dick W. Heath
7
8
9 Nolan Ryan
10
11
Ernest Angelo, Jr.
12
13
14 John Avila, Jr.
15
16
Alvin L. Henry
17
18
19 Katharine Armstrong Idsal
20
21
Mark E. Watson, Jr.
22
23
24 *-*-*-*-*
25
Top of Page