Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing

May 31, 2001

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
          7         BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 31st day of
          8    May, 2001, there came to be heard matters under the
          9    regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission
         10    of Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas
         11    Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas,
         12    beginning at 9:15 a.m., to wit:
         15    APPEARANCES:
               CHAIR:    Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas
         17              Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
                         Phil Montgomery, III, Dallas, Texas
         18              Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
                         John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
         19              Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
                         Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
         20              Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
                         Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas
               Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other personnel
         23    of the Parks and Wildlife Department
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          1    OTHER APPEARANCES:
                         Mr. Walt Lewis
          2              Clifton Shooting Club
                         564 CR 4150
          3              Clifton, Texas  76634-5018
          4              Mr. Ellis Gilleland
                         "Texas Animals"
          5              POB 9001
                         Austin, Texas  78766
                         Mr. David K. Langford
          7              Texas Wildlife Association
          8              Mr. J.N. Rimes
                         Texas Deer Association
          9              POB 1550
                         Jacksonville, Texas  75766
                         Mr. Jon Henderson
         11              TDA
                         Box 221
         12              Meridian, Texas  7665
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Good morning.  I'd like to
          2    call this meeting of the Parks and Wildlife Commission to
          3    order.
          4                   Mr. Sansom, are you live?
          5                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman,
          6    a public notice of this meeting containing all items on
          7    the proposed agenda has been filed in the Office of the
          8    Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of the
          9    Government Code.  This is referred to as the Open
         10    Meetings Law and I would like for this action to be noted
         11    in the official record of the meeting.
         12                   Ladies and gentlemen, I would, along the
         13    Chair and members of the Commission, like to welcome you
         14    here this morning.  We appreciate each of you coming to
         15    participate in our meeting.  The Chairman, for the last
         16    time today is in charge of the meeting, and I will as
         17    always be assisting him as Sergeant at Arms.  I want to
         18    remind you that we've got sign-up cards out in the hall
         19    for everyone who wishes to speak.  And Chairman Bass will
         20    call the names from these cards one at time and each of
         21    you will be allowed to come forward and speak from this
         22    podium in front of me one at a time.  When you're name is
         23    called, I would like to ask you to come to the podium,
         24    state your name and who you represent, if anyone other
         25    than yourself.  The Chairman may wish to call the next
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          1    person in line and if you could be so kind as to come to
          2    the back of the room and be ready, then we can move the
          3    meeting along in an orderly fashion.
          4                   As all of you know, our -- our practice
          5    here is to ask each person who wishes to address the
          6    Commission, to -- to limit their remarks to three
          7    minutes.  I'll keep time with this little traffic clock I
          8    have here.  And let you know when your three minutes are
          9    up.  And when your time is up, I'd like to ask you to
         10    resume your seat so that others may speak.
         11                   Your time can be extended if a
         12    Commissioner asks you a question or if the Commissioners
         13    discuss things among themselves, that will not be counted
         14    against you.  It's very, very important that you at all
         15    times remain professional and not be argumentative or
         16    critical of others because I will not tolerate that.  I
         17    would like to ask you that if you have anything to submit
         18    to the Commission in written form that you give it to Ms.
         19    Estrada here on my right and she'll make sure the
         20    Commissioners get it.  So once again, thank you very much
         21    for being here today and we look forward to your
         22    participation in our Commission meeting.
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  The first
         24    order of business will be approval of the minutes from
         25    our previous meeting.  Commissioner Dinkins, I believe
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          1    you had some corrections.
          2                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Yes.  Thank you, Mr.
          3    Chairman.  On Page 36, Line 14, 15, and 16 there were
          4    several sentences that were missing a couple of words and
          5    I wanted to ask that we insert those.  This is from
          6    remarks by Dr. Jerry Cooke and I have gone over these
          7    sentences with him and confirmed the correct language.
          8    In Line 14 there should be a period after "withdrawn."
          9    And then insert "we have comments," and then in line 15
         10    insert "they" before the last word in that line which is
         11    "are."  And then in Line 16 include a period after the
         12    word "them" and capitalize "they."  And I think that will
         13    clarify his remarks.
         14                   And then on Page 39, Line 18 after
         15    "currently" insert "have."
         16                   On Page 91, Line 12 there's a typo.  It
         17    says "if" rather than "it."
         18                   On Page 100, Line 5 the word "muscles" is
         19    the wrong kind of "mussels."  And then on Page 104 Mr.
         20    Tomme Actkinson's name is spelled differently than it was
         21    spelled on Page 55 when he initially spoke.  And
         22    similarly on page -- well, on Page 55 I marked how it
         23    was.  And then on Page 111, Line 22 there should be a
         24    comma after "Cooper Lake."
         25                   On Page 113 "code" should be capitalized
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          1    and on Page 123 -- I'm sorry.  That was Line 10 and on
          2    Page 123, Line 15 "it's" should not have the apostrophe.
          3    And with those corrections, Mr. Chairman, I move the
          4    approval of the minutes.
          5                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  A motion and a second.
          7    All in favor?
          8                   ("Aye").
          9                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?
         10                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Good job.
         11                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have the cleanest sets
         12    of minutes of any agency in the State of Texas.
         13                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Well,
         14    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that I get paid extra for
         15    reading them.
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  That's right.  She gets
         17    two cookies at Wednesday lunch.
         18                   The next order of business is acceptance
         19    of gifts to the department.  A list of, you know, of
         20    which has been distributed in the Commission meetings
         21    book for review.  Are there any questions or comments, or
         22    if not the Chair would entertain a motion.
         23                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Move approval.
         24                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
         25                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and a second.  All
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          1    in favor.
          2                   ("Aye").
          3                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  Hearing
          4    none, motion passes.
          5                TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE
          6          (Donors are listed in the following order:
          7           Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation)
          9        (1) First National Bank of Athens; CASH; Texas
                       Freshwater Fisheries Center
         10        (2) ALCOA; Trailer; White Oak Creek WMA
                   (3) S.A.G., Inc.; Fuel; CCA/CPL Marine Development
         11            Center
                   (4) Greater Mission COC; CASH; The Great Texas
         12            Birding Classic
                   (5) Swarovski Optik North America; CASH; The Great
         13            Texas Birding Classic
                   (6) Reliant Energy; CASH; The Great Texas Birding
         14            Classic
                   (7) American Conservation & Education Society
         15            (Houston Safari Club); CASH; Hunter Education
         16        (8) HAAS Outdoors, Inc.; Hunting Clothing; Hunter
                       Education Program
         17        (9) Highland Industries; Hunter Orange Vests;
                       Hunter Education Program
         18        (10) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.;
                        Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program
         19        (11) Winchester Ammunition; Ammunition and
                        Literature; Hunter Education Program
         20        (12) Walls Industries, Inc.; Hunter Orange Vests;
                        Hunter Education Program
         21        (13) Big John's Soft Plastics; Fishing Lures;
                        Angler Education Program
         22        (14) Shakespeare; Rod and Reel Combinations;
                        Angler Education Program
         23        (15) Parks and Wildlife Foundation; CASH; State
                        Park Marketing Materials
         24        (16) H Yturria Land & Cattle Company; CASH; Lone
                        Star Land Stewards
         25        (17) Farm Credit Associations of Texas; CASH; Lone
                        Star Land Stewards
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          1        (18) 100 Club; Airboat & Trailer; Game Warden
                        Patrol Activities
          2        (19) City of Bay City; CASH; Great Texas Birding
          3        (20) American Electric Power; CASH; Great Texas
                        Birding Classic
          4        (21) Travis Audubon Society; CASH; Great Texas
                        Birding Center
          5        (22) Fancy Publications, Inc.; CASH; Great Texas
                        Birding Center
          6        (23) ATSKO, Inc.; Booklets, Packets, Cleaning
                        Rods; Hunter Education Program
          7        (24) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.;
                        Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program
          8        (25) Texas Bighorn Society; Food; Desert Bighorn
                        Sheep Project
          9        (26) Friends of the Fulton Mansion; CASH; Travel
         10                   TOTAL          $118,205
         11                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Mr. Chairman,
         12    if you could join me at the podium, at this time I would
         13    like to -- to welcome our new Commissioners, Mr. Phil
         14    Montgomery and Mr. Joseph Fitzsimons.  I will know that
         15    you will find as all of us who have served Parks and
         16    Wildlife have found that it is a real privilege and we
         17    appreciate your taking the time out of your lives to
         18    become our newest volunteers.
         19                   This is the time of the meeting in which
         20    we recognize what it is that makes this department
         21    great.  It's -- it's the people who work here and the
         22    people who support our agency in all of its various
         23    programs.  This morning I have several employees that
         24    have worked long and hard at Parks and Wildlife that I
         25    would like to ask each of you to join me in recognizing.
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          1    The first is Ed Werland.
          2                   Ed is an employee of Human Resources
          3    Division here and he's worked at Parks and Wildlife for
          4    25 years.  He began as a registered architect.  He has
          5    worked in the planning and designs area as a landscape
          6    architect and park planner.  In 1979 he became a project
          7    manager in master planning.  But over the years Ed has
          8    really distinguished himself as a -- as a sort of a
          9    master trainer and teacher.  We loaned him for a while,
         10    unfortunately, to the Governor's -- for us, but good for
         11    them -- to the Governor's Center for Management
         12    Development where he established several from programs in
         13    the Governor's office which still exist today.  He
         14    brought his expertise back as a training specialist
         15    and -- and worked for a time as -- in that function in
         16    the Public Safety Branch for State Parks.  He worked as a
         17    training specialist in the Human Resources Division and
         18    he's been a major force in developing throughout our
         19    culture what we call purchase driven team building.  This
         20    effort on Ed's part has increased the productive of many
         21    of the teams at Park and Wildlife and teamwork is of our
         22    highest values.  For this service, Ed had been recognized
         23    recently in May as a certified senior professional in
         24    Human Resources which is the highest credential among HR
         25    professionals.  Please recognize from Human Resources
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          1    with 25 years of service to Parks and Wildlife, Ed
          2    Werland.
          3                   (Applause.)
          4                   MR. WERLAND:  Where do I stand?
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Right between us.
          6                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thanks Ed,
          7    congratulations.
          8                   (Applause.)
          9                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  One of my
         10    closest friends in the department is a woman who is a
         11    valued professional, a good friend, and -- and one of
         12    those people who always has a smile for you no matter
         13    what the difficulties that we're going through.
         14                   Toni Oldfather has been here 20 years.
         15    She came to work in Coastal Fishery, Inland Fisheries in
         16    1981.  At that time we -- we had a hatchery program
         17    within Inland Fisheries which later became a branch of
         18    the old Fisheries Division.  And while Toni was there as
         19    an administrative technician, the renovations to the San
         20    Marcos Hatchery were completed and the John Wilson Fish
         21    Hatchery was constructed, which began the sequence of
         22    events that -- that ultimately resulted in both Sea
         23    Center and the Texas Freshwater Fishery Center as the
         24    state -- most state-of-the-art hatcheries perhaps in the
         25    world.  In 1989 Toni went to work for Larry McKinney in
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          1    Resource Protection as his Administrative Assistant and
          2    then later in the decade became the Budget Management,
          3    the grants coordinator, the LBB coordinator, and the
          4    Legislative Liaison for the Resource Protection.  When
          5    she came to work in 1981 she thought she'd only be here a
          6    year and thankfully she's still here today with 20 years
          7    of service.  Toni Oldfather from Resource Protection.
          8                   (Applause.)
          9                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  How are you
         10    doing, Toni?
         11                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  It's been a long year.
         12                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  It's been a
         13    long year Lee said.
         14                   MS. OLDFATHER:  Yes, it has.  It's been
         15    getting longer.
         16                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thanks Toni.
         17                   (Applause.)
         18                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  You-all will
         19    remember several years ago at our employee awards
         20    ceremonies which are coming up, by the way, this year in
         21    August, we recognized Annice Storey for her work in East
         22    Texas.  She began work at the Department in April of 1981
         23    at what was at that time called the Management Research
         24    Station in Tyler.  And it's interesting to note that
         25    yesterday in our discussions about quail the question was
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          1    answered -- the question was asked well what about
          2    release birds.  At that time the facility that we managed
          3    in Tyler was basically a hatchery that produced various
          4    species of game birds for release including quail, turkey
          5    and pheasant.  And of course as -- as we have seen over
          6    the years, the limiting factor is habitat and so that
          7    program has no longer been there.  But with Annice's help
          8    and she is basically responsible for the grounds and
          9    facilities of what we now call the Nature Center which
         10    will be in partnership with the Tyler Woods and Waters
         11    Club, the East Texas Ecological Foundation, the principal
         12    nature center for outreach in East Texas.  Annice has
         13    been highly involved in this process.  She's a hunter
         14    education instructor and she was promoted in 1997 as a
         15    Wildlife Technician.  She lives in Tyler and she takes
         16    care of one of the neatest little facilities that we've
         17    got in our system.  Please recognize with 20 years of
         18    service Annice Storey from the Wildlife Division.
         19                   (Applause.)
         20                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
         21    Congratulations.
         22                   MS. STOREY:  Thank you.
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Congratulations.
         24                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  There's a
         25    great video of Annice driving a tractor that I want
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          1    you-all all to see at some point.
          2                   MS. STOREY:  Thank you.
          3                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
          4    Congratulations, Annice.
          5                   MS. STOREY:  Thank you.
          6                   (Applause.)
          7                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Perhaps,
          8    Mr. Bass, one of the greatest gifts to the future of
          9    Texas during your long service here has been the creation
         10    of the Big Bend Ranch and today we have a great privilege
         11    of recognizing two neighbors of the Big Bend Ranch who
         12    have donated lands to the park and increased its legacy
         13    and gift to the future.  I want to introduce you first to
         14    Julius and Marilyne Dieckert of College Station.  They
         15    are professors who have made many sacrifices in their
         16    lives.  On -- on basically state salaries they acquired
         17    seven sections of land adjacent to the Solitario, which
         18    is one of the most significant geological formations in
         19    America and they have donated this property known as the
         20    Masada Ridge Wilderness to the department.
         21                   I know of no other lands within the
         22    holdings of the department where someone actually used
         23    their own funds to come in and purchase property along
         24    the boundary with the intent of donating it to Texas
         25    Parks and Wildlife.  Please recognize Drs. Julius and
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          1    Marilyne Dieckert of College Station, Texas.
          2                   (Applause.)
          3                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Please come
          4    forward.  These are our conservation heroes.  Thank you.
          5                   DR. DIECKERT:  Thank you.
          6                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thank you.
          7                   DR. DIECKERT:  Thank you all very much.
          8                   DR. DIECKERT:  Thank you.
          9                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Another family
         10    that was a neighbor of ours at Big Bend Ranch were John
         11    and Beryl Rice.  I remember the first time I met John
         12    Rice was at the old airport in Marfa.  John had this
         13    little bitty helicopter that at quite an advanced age he
         14    was still flying back and forth from Marfa to the ranch
         15    headquarters at La Mota Mountain.  And he would be out
         16    there with a little strobe light of some kind making sure
         17    that the -- that the helicopter was properly tuned so he
         18    could fly it out to the ranch where he spent the last
         19    years of his life there in Marfa with his wife Beryl who
         20    is an artist of note in the area.  Mr. and Mrs. Rice were
         21    great neighbors.  They were at the event that we
         22    celebrated the closing of the purchase of Big Bend Ranch,
         23    they were there.  And thanks to the wonderful efforts of
         24    people like Delton Daugherty who is here today and others
         25    Luis Armendariz, the Rices continued throughout their
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          1    lives to be neighbors.  They passed away, unfortunately,
          2    as -- and left this ranch to Big Bend Ranch State Park,
          3    the La Mota Ranch.  For those of who have been to Big
          4    Bend, La Mota is probably one of its most prominent
          5    features and it can be seen from our Sauceda
          6    headquarters.  We shared that bequest with Mrs. Rice's
          7    son, Jim Donnell, who is here with us today.  And in a
          8    wonderful transaction of where he continued that spirit
          9    of generosity, an additional 13,000 acres of some of the
         10    most beautiful property in the Trans Pecos have been
         11    donated to the park.
         12                   La Mota Mountain, as I mentioned, which
         13    is -- which is now completely within the Big Bend Ranch
         14    can be seen from headquarters and Terneros Creek is one
         15    of the most spectacular Cottonwood galleries anywhere in
         16    Texas.  Please recognize Jim Donnell who is here today
         17    with us.
         18                   (Applause.)
         19                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  And I believe
         20    he has his wife here as well.
         21                   MR. DONNELL:  Thank you.
         22                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thank you. Hi,
         23    Ms. Donnell.  How are you?  Nice to see you.  Thanks for
         24    coming.
         25                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.
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          1                   MR. DONNELL:  Thank you.
          2                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thanks,
          3    Ms. Donnell.
          4                   (Applause.)
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Win, win.
          6                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Members and
          7    Mr. Chairman, the Southern States Boating Law
          8    Administrators Association is comprised of 18 states, the
          9    commonwealth of Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands.  This
         10    association was created to promote boating safety and
         11    achieve uniformity in boating laws from state to state.
         12    This is accomplished by establishing standards, safety
         13    education, and boating enforcement practices.  This month
         14    at the 40th annual conference of the Southern States
         15    Boating Law Administrators Association, one of finest
         16    Texas game wardens along with officers from each of the
         17    other member states was recognized for his
         18    accomplishments.
         19                   Edward Tanuz graduated from the 40th Game
         20    Warden Academy in 1987 and went to work immediately in
         21    Galveston County.  He's worked to develop an educational
         22    program in his area to train local law enforcement
         23    personnel in marine safety and devotes much of his time
         24    to community service related to water safety.  Search and
         25    rescue efforts are a common occurrence in the Galveston
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          1    Bay system and Edward has been -- he's always in the
          2    water when the need arises.
          3                   One recent incident occurred on July 4th
          4    when Edward was patrolling the Texas City Dike, observed
          5    a woman fall off a float about 30 yards from shore and
          6    began to struggle in the water.  He grabbed a life
          7    jacket, he swam to her and grabbed her and pulled her
          8    back to shore and was credited for saving her life.  Is
          9    it my privilege and honor to present to you the 2001
         10    Texas Marine Safety Officer of the year Game Warden
         11    Edward Tanuz.
         12                   (Applause.)
         13                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
         14    Congratulations.
         15                   MR. TANUZ:  Thank you.
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Congratulations.
         17                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thanks.
         18                   MR. TANUZ:  Thank you.
         19                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  We never tire
         20    of recognizing our partner Dow Chemical which has done so
         21    much for Parks and Wildlife.  Today we have the privilege
         22    of recognizing a new partner in that great corporation,
         23    Dow AgroSciences.  They've assisted in a major Parks and
         24    Wildlife quail research project in East Texas called
         25    Pastures for Upland Birds.  And it's particularly
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          1    fitting, I think, that we although unplanned, that we
          2    recognize them today after all of our discussion
          3    yesterday about the habitat needs of quail and the issues
          4    related to the survival of quail as a -- as a specifies
          5    for us to use and enjoy.
          6                   This project is designed to evaluate the
          7    wildlife benefits and cost effectiveness of actually
          8    converting coastal bermuda grass fields back to native
          9    pastures.  In order to make that possible, Dow
         10    AgroSciences contributed about $10,000 worth of herbicide
         11    which along with donations from the National Fish and
         12    Wildlife Foundation, the Cross Timbers Chapter of Quail
         13    Unlimited, and local farmers we're trying to determine
         14    whether or not that can actually be done.
         15                   My colleague Matt Wagner, who's the
         16    wildlife division biologist who designed this project is
         17    here today to help present the award.  And I would like
         18    for Matt and Dow employees Rick Borgogni, Daryl Evans and
         19    Ron Dipprey to come forward at this time and receive our
         20    thanks for their contribution to this important project.
         21                   (Applause.)
         22                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Hey, guys.
         23    Thanks, guys.  Thank you very much.  Thank you very
         24    much.  Hey, Matt, congratulations old friend.
         25                   MR. WAGNER:  Step back here, there may be
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          1    a little bit more room.
          2                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  This a limited
          3    edition print which is given to those who support our
          4    wildlife research program and a certificate of
          5    appreciation.
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  This company is the best
          7    corporate partner we have -- bar none.
          8                   MR. NOTTINGHAM:  One, two, three.
          9    Thanks.  Thank you.
         10                   (Applause.)
         11                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Thank you
         12    all.  I guess I hoped this day would never come.  For the
         13    last six years Lee Bass has been my boss.  I've never
         14    lasted that long with any other supervisor, so, Lee, I
         15    guess Nona and I both are grateful to you that I'm still
         16    getting a paycheck.  I would like to begin what I hope is
         17    some things that you would like and enjoy and remember us
         18    by with the video that Mark Southern and Bruce Biermann
         19    have prepared for us this morning.
         20                   (Farewell videotape played.)
         21                   (Applause.)
         22                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you all very much.
         23    I promised myself I wouldn't choke up today but you're
         24    testing me.  The -- I guess, you know, the last year or
         25    so I -- I have given some thought to what I would say at
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          1    this moment and -- and I'm sure I could go on for hours
          2    of the things that -- that I'm very proud of that -- that
          3    we've accomplished here in the last 12 years.  But
          4    I'll -- I'll avoid that, I think we all -- we all share
          5    those, those same -- those same thoughts of -- of
          6    accomplishment and pride.
          7                   I would like to thank a lot of people.
          8    The employees, you guys and girls make my job look easy
          9    really.  It really is the -- the finest group of -- of
         10    conservation agency people, I think, anywhere.  I -- I
         11    wish it was possible that our former Governor and now
         12    President could take us all to Washington 'cause we could
         13    straighten some things out.  I'd like to thank my
         14    family.  They've been very supportive and sacrificed, you
         15    know, a lot of things to -- so that I could do this.
         16    The -- I guess the -- the one -- one or two key thoughts
         17    that I would like to leave -- leave everybody with in
         18    their mind is that, you know, I -- I think that when we
         19    have tried to work with our constituents, our
         20    stakeholders in a cooperative manner being sensitive to
         21    their needs, their -- their fears, tried to build a -- a
         22    feeling of mutual trust and respect is -- is when we have
         23    accomplished the most long-term good.  It's a -- it's a
         24    method that I hope every -- I hope this agency never
         25    abandons.  And I'd like to say I've enjoyed this.  It's
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          1    been very satisfying.  And I think it's been satisfying
          2    because what -- what we do here is important.
          3                   I think -- I think all of us recognize
          4    that there is something about the out of doors that --
          5    that is an integral part of the human psyche and -- and
          6    that we all need that.  I think there are a lot of urban
          7    people, urban kids that don't understand that and I think
          8    it's very important we continue to try to do everything
          9    we can to -- to help them realize that and open their
         10    eyes.  Thank you-all.  It's been fun.  It's been a good
         11    ride.
         12                   (Applause.)
         13                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Mr. Chairman, perhaps
         14    you would indulge the members each of the Commission to
         15    make a public good-bye to you.  And I will go first and
         16    say that I think indeed you have left Texas a better
         17    place.  And it's been a great joy to serve on the
         18    Commission with you and we will miss your leadership, but
         19    look forward to seeing you whenever you can give us more
         20    time.
         21                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.
         22                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Lee --
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  I feel like a Wake.  This
         24    is --
         25                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  I know.  You were
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          1    worried about your composure.  I lost mine.
          2                   Lee, thank you for all you've done for the
          3    State of Texas.  If people really understood the amount
          4    of time that Mr. Bass has dedicated and his family too to
          5    this wonderful department and to our wonderful state
          6    there would be no shortage of gratitude for his efforts.
          7    I really do believe that -- that the job you've done is
          8    the definition of what all citizens should do for their
          9    state.  You've done it in your way in the best possible
         10    way.  And you've -- making our job now that you're --
         11    you're going to be leaving, but you're leaving the job we
         12    still have yet to do, I'm in my garbled syntax here, a
         13    much easier job and -- and I don't see the focus that
         14    you've brought to the Commission over the past 12 years
         15    changing too much.
         16                   You've -- you've given a long-term view
         17    for us to follow and -- and we should be very grateful to
         18    you.  Thank you.
         19                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Lee, I have to say
         20    it's been a great pleasure to serve with you and I think
         21    you're been a role model to -- to all of us and to all
         22    the people that have observed the leadership that you
         23    brought to this organization.  And the good that you've
         24    done for the State and we're going to miss you a lot.
         25    And I know you'll go on to do a lot of great things and
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          1    otherwise and you've done so many other things for the
          2    State already.  Again, it's been an honor to be -- to be
          3    working with you.
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, Ernie.
          5                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  I don't want to be
          6    last.  And I think with what we've seen and what
          7    everybody has said and we said last night, you know,
          8    really has said it all, but, you know, I've only be here
          9    two years, Lee, but you've been an inspiration to me.
         10    This has been a wonderful, wonderful experience for
         11    myself and -- and it's really due to a great part to the
         12    direction that you've given us and the involvement that
         13    you've, you know, had with all of us.  And I tell you
         14    what, we're really going to miss you.  And I tell you
         15    what, I hope you of come back soon.  Thank you.
         16                   MR. FITZSIMONS:  Mr. Chairman, I know it's
         17    my first day as a Commissioner and not as -- probably not
         18    very smart to start when the -- when the greatest
         19    chairman as the Commission has probably ever known is
         20    leaving.  That's bad timing on my part.  But I've -- I've
         21    seen you work and as the video pointed out, ten years ago
         22    things were not necessarily going to turn out this well.
         23    And you made the difference.  And I'm getting choked up,
         24    but I can tell you I was there and there was a time when
         25    we were in danger of this department becoming
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          1    disconnected from the very resource it's committed to,
          2    and especially from the people that live on that
          3    resource.  And you changed that.  You made -- you made
          4    the right things happen and I want to thank you for
          5    your -- for your loyalty and your commitment to the
          6    resource and to the people of this department.  Thank
          7    you.
          8                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thanks.
          9                   COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I guess I'll go next
         10    and say -- take it a different direction and -- and --
         11    and say to you how many ways can so many people say they
         12    care a great deal about -- about you personally.  And I
         13    think all the things that we've said about your
         14    leadership and the greatest things that you've done for
         15    the State are indeed true and accurate.  But -- but the
         16    thing that -- that -- that has meant the most to me is --
         17    is -- is to see the environment and -- and -- and the --
         18    the attitude and the atmosphere that -- that is in this
         19    department and throughout the far reaches of the State
         20    whether it be a state park or wildlife management area
         21    where I've gone and said these many -- that many people
         22    just can't be that happy, and -- and -- but they are.
         23    And -- and I think -- I think that starts from the top
         24    and -- with you, Lee, and -- and the way that you've
         25    engaged us all and got us to be part of this magnificent
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          1    team and -- and that legacy will go on for quite some
          2    time.
          3                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I have the least
          4    background here.  I'm going to leave the most eloquent
          5    speaker to last, but I do want to tell you that --
          6                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I'm used to be being
          7    last, Phil.
          8                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  But I -- I will
          9    say I -- it's very impressive to me to walk in new and
         10    see a government agency work in a cooperative voluntary
         11    manner that's befitting a free society and this is a real
         12    model to me.  I've served on other government agency
         13    boards and as a citizen, businessman, I've been exposed
         14    to many, many branches of government and this more than
         15    any I've seen has that spirit that's befitting a free
         16    society and appropriate and everyone turns that back to
         17    your leadership and your philosophy and gives you
         18    credit for it.  So hats off to you.  I think that's a
         19    very profound thing and it should have a long, long
         20    legacy.
         21                   And the other observation I would add I
         22    think more than anyone here I see the cumulative impact
         23    of years of good leadership walking and seeing a slice of
         24    it very quickly with no background, and it's quite
         25    impressive.  I hope you're very proud and I hope your
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          1    family is very proud of it.  That does come from
          2    leadership.  It's doesn't happen by accident.  So it's a
          3    pleasure to have served with you for a day and good luck
          4    to you and thank you for all you've done for the
          5    department.  For Texas.
          6                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Lee, when I was
          7    appointed to the Commission everyone told me how much I
          8    would enjoy this assignment and they were right.  And
          9    that's largely in part because of you and Andy and others
         10    that set the -- the leadership stage for the rest of us.
         11    You welcomed us here, you showed us by example what it
         12    was like to -- to lead and to be a team leader and to
         13    contribute to the welfare of the people of this State and
         14    we all applaud you for that.
         15                   But I think all of us would jointly,
         16    separately as well as jointly thank you for not only your
         17    leadership but for your friendship and you've meant a
         18    great deal to all of us.  You will mean a great deal to
         19    us.  I'm delighted that the family is here to -- to
         20    witness this moment with us.  It's -- I spoke to my wife
         21    this morning and she said you sound kind of sad.  I said,
         22    yeah, I'm a little sad.  She said, why?  I said, well
         23    this will be Lee's last meeting and she said, yeah, you
         24    got a right to be a little sad.  'Cause you've done a
         25    great job for the State and you've been quite a leader
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          1    for all of us and we want you to know how much we
          2    appreciate you.  So thank you for everything.
          3                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  Thank all of
          4    you for -- for a lot of kind words and -- and I -- I
          5    would be remiss not to mention how much it means to me
          6    that one of the people in the audience today is -- is Tim
          7    Hixon who was appointed by Governor Clements the same
          8    time I was to this Commission so many years ago and we
          9    were wild-eyed rookies and -- and -- and didn't quite
         10    know what we were getting into.  But I appreciate deeply
         11    Tim making the effort to -- to come up from San Antonio
         12    today.  And as I -- as I told him in the hall earlier
         13    that I'm -- I'm looking forward to finally gaining
         14    membership to what is the ultimate outdoorsman's club in
         15    the State of Texas which is the Former Commissioner's
         16    Club.  And all you too can be a member at some point in
         17    time, but I've had the privilege of -- I counted it up,
         18    it's amazing I've sat up here with 25 different
         19    individuals counting our two new Commissioners this
         20    morning and I have to say that I've enjoyed a
         21    relationship with each and every one of them and it's --
         22    it's been a wonderful culture that -- that was here long
         23    before I arrived on -- on this Commission of -- of
         24    developing bonds of friendship, mutual respect even
         25    when -- when there was disagreement on -- on various
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          1    policy issues.  And a very strong nonpartisan spirit
          2    of -- of doing the job we were appointed to come here to
          3    do, and -- and -- and putting personal interest and
          4    biases aside.  So it's -- it's -- it's been fun, but --
          5    but it's -- it's a fun outdoorsman's club that I'm
          6    looking forward to be a full-time member of now.  So,
          7    anyway, thanks, Tim.
          8                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
          9    Mr. Chairman, I can assure that everyone in the room and
         10    everyone who works throughout this department shares the
         11    feelings and thoughts that have been expressed today.
         12    Every employee who has marveled at your command of the
         13    most arcane and complicated scientific and financial
         14    information, who's understood the depth of your support
         15    of our work and who has experienced the kind and
         16    thoughtful humanity that make you a gentleman.  On behalf
         17    of all the employees, nearly 3,000 men and women who work
         18    in this great department, I want to give you something to
         19    remember us by that was created by an employee.  This is
         20    an original pastel of South Texas white tail deer done by
         21    Rob Fleming for you.
         22                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.
         23                   (Applause.)
         24                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  Finally,
         25    members of the Commission, ladies and gentlemen, I know
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          1    that each of you has taken note of the beautiful new
          2    conference room that Scott Boruff whose team of designers
          3    and craftsmen have created to provide us with a badly
          4    needed new capability here and a lovely view of the
          5    outdoors from our lobby.  I would like at this time,
          6    Madam Vice-Chairman, to ask for a suspension of the rules
          7    and invite each one of the members of the Commission,
          8    Ramona, Perry and Ramoncita to pause for a moment in
          9    recess and go out and unveil the marker in the hall which
         10    dedicates our new Texas Parks and Wildlife facility as
         11    the Lee Bass Conference Room.  Please.
         12                   (Applause and dedication of new
         13                   conference room.)
         14                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Can we have a quorum,
         15    please?  They don't want to mess up my last meeting.  All
         16    right.  I think we have a quorum, so we will get going.
         17    Get down to business here.
         18                   The first order of business would be the
         19    approval of the agenda which we have before us.  Do we
         20    have a motion?
         21                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  So moved.
         22                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and second, all in
         24    favor.
         25                   ("Aye").
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion carries.  Thank
          2    you.
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Action Item 1, the Consent
          5    Agenda, we do not have a consent agenda today, so the
          6    Chair will not hear that.  And which brings us to the
          7    2001-2002 Migratory Bird Proclamation.  Vernon Bevill,
          8    please.
          9    AGENDA ITEM NO. 2:  2001-2002 MIGRATORY GAME BIRD
         10    PROCLAMATION
         11                   MR. BEVILL:  Mr. Chairman, members of the
         12    Commission, my name is Vernon Bevill.  I'm the program
         13    director for the game bird program.  Today is the
         14    beginning of the season setting process for migratory
         15    game birds for 2001-2002.
         16                   Every year we have a little calendar shift
         17    to deal with.  This year we are bringing before you a
         18    proposed change in the morning dove season regulations
         19    and then we will be proposing adjustments to other
         20    seasons as well.
         21                   For Teal we anticipate the Fish and
         22    Wildlife Service will grant another 16-day season.  We
         23    try to set that season to begin as late as possible
         24    because of the Teal migration to Texas favors a later
         25    start date this year.  We recommend opening the Saturday
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          1    the 15th of September and running to the 30th of
          2    September.  For Rail and Gallinules and Woodcock and
          3    those specifies, we try to establish those seasons to
          4    configure around the basic waterfowl seasons to the
          5    greatest extent that we can so that opportunity
          6    exists when -- when migratory bird hunters are in the
          7    field.
          8                   The white-winged season along the border,
          9    again, we are recommending the first two complete
         10    weekends in the month of September as we do each year.
         11                   For Mourning dove we proposed a change to
         12    be considered going back to the 12-bird bag limit and a
         13    70-day season and that would be a change from the 15-bird
         14    bag and 60-day season that was adopted back in 1994.  In
         15    a survey that we recently conducted and had 3,000 --
         16    about 3,000 responses from various dove hunters across
         17    the State, one of the things we tried to look at was --
         18    was whether or not we were providing season opportunity
         19    in general that was satisfactory to dove hunters.  And as
         20    you can see from this slide, dove hunters in general are
         21    very satisfied with the -- with the overall hunting
         22    opportunity for this species.
         23                   When we looked at the issue of setting a
         24    12-bird bag by the various zones, we received a
         25    considerable amount of comment from the survey.  You
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          1    would note that in the Central and South zones there was
          2    a significant difference between the favorability of the
          3    12-bird bag over the 15-bird bag.  This is actually a
          4    reversal in the Central zone of a survey of several years
          5    ago.  In the North zone where the 15-bird bag has been
          6    very popular over the years, frankly I was a little
          7    surprised that it was almost a 50/50 split between --
          8    between the two options in the survey.  We received far
          9    more public comment from e-mails and letters and
         10    telephone calls and that sort of comment this year on the
         11    dove season proposal than we received in any other time.
         12    Almost 500 total comments.  As you can see, again,
         13    there's a favorability and that comment in the Central
         14    and South zones where the comments were directed zonally
         15    to a 12-bird bag, 70-day season; however, in the North
         16    zone there is a significant percentage of people who
         17    favored the 15-bird bag remaining in their 60-day
         18    season.
         19                   In the -- another segment of the survey we
         20    tried to look at where we might put the extra ten days if
         21    the Commission chooses to go back to the 12-bird, 70-day
         22    option.  Surprisingly respondents from the North zone
         23    indicated a favorability for a late season.  They have
         24    never had a late season segment, to my knowledge, in the
         25    North zone, it's always been a straight through season.
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          1    So we were a little confused, if you -- if you will, by
          2    that response rate, but I wanted to bring that before
          3    you.
          4                   In the Central zone when we went to the
          5    15-bird bag and shortened the season we took the ten days
          6    in that Central zone from the end of the first season
          7    segment.  And -- and as you can see in this slide, the
          8    preponderance of comment and a significant difference in
          9    the -- in the response rate of favored putting those days
         10    back in the -- in the first segment.  But you can also
         11    see that there was -- when you combined the -- the two
         12    questions about the late season segment it amounts to a
         13    little over 50 percent of the total response.  And again,
         14    in the South zone there was significant comment on the --
         15    where to put the days and with the preponderance of that
         16    comment coming at the end of the second split.
         17                   So the potential season that we -- we put
         18    together on this slide before you would be leaving the
         19    North zone with a 15-bird bag and a 60-day continuous
         20    season and the Central zone adding the ten days back to
         21    the end of the first season segment.  And in the South
         22    zone adding the ten days to the end of the second season
         23    segment.  But those are just potential configurations of
         24    the use of those ten days.
         25                   And then the staff recommendation with
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          1    changes is before you here.  Mr. Chairman, I would be
          2    glad to entertain any questions from the Commission.
          3                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Are there any questions of
          4    Mr. Bevill prior to public comment?
          5                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Chairman, I
          6    wonder if you might explain the survey.  Who was -- to
          7    whom those 15,000 were sent, how those were selected.
          8                   MR. BEVILL:  We selected -- because we
          9    had -- now have the HIP survey in place, we -- we
         10    directed that survey at dove hunters across the State and
         11    it was a randomized sample.  And we ran a large sample
         12    knowing we would -- in a -- in a one mailing deal we
         13    would probably get a fairly low response rate, but we
         14    wanted that response rate to be high enough to give us
         15    significant statistical values.  So that's the way we
         16    pursued it and it did give us a significant percent.
         17                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  That's a pretty high
         18    response rate for that type of survey.
         19                   MR. BEVILL:  Yes.
         20                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any other questions?
         21                   The chair would entertain public comment.
         22    Walt Lewis, if you would come forward and Ellis
         23    Gilleland, if you would be prepared to speak next.
         24                   MR. LEWIS:  Howdy and good morning.  My
         25    name is Walt Lewis.  I'm from Bosque County.  I live five
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          1    miles west of Clifton, Texas.  I represent the Clifton
          2    Shooting Club and many other avid dove hunters from
          3    Bosque County.  We are in the Central dove hunting zone.
          4    I'm here to speak in favor of the proposed change
          5    reducing the bag limit of doves to 12 and adding days
          6    back to late October.
          7                   In the early '90s your surveys indicated
          8    that 80 percent of dove hunters only hunt the first two
          9    weekends.  That was one of the considerations, I believe,
         10    in increasing the bag limit to 15 and taking off the
         11    latter part of October.  Many of us believed and voiced
         12    three things.  A, these two-weekend-a-year hunters would
         13    have to be in a heck of a lot of doves to get 15; B, they
         14    would have to be darn good shots and then meanwhile back
         15    at the ranch those of us whose passion is dove hunting
         16    were losing two of the best weeks of the season.  That's
         17    been borne out by more current surveys and statistics,
         18    and I believe those statistics indicate that only 3
         19    percent of the dove hunters have acquired a bag limit of
         20    15 since it was installed.
         21                   Ladies and gentlemen, please return to us
         22    those late days of October cool crisp when those big
         23    purple-footed doves from North Texas, Oklahoma, and
         24    Kansas are coming down, that's the heart of the season.
         25    Please give it back to us.  Thank you very much.
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, Mr. Lewis.  I
          2    thank your clear and concise comments.
          3                   Mr. Gilleland and if David Langford be
          4    prepared to speak next.
          5                   MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis
          6    Gilleland.  I'm a private citizen.  I'm speaking for
          7    Texas Animals which is an Internet organization devoted
          8    to animal rights, animal welfare.  I have given you a
          9    handout.  It is a newspaper clipping from the Houston
         10    Chronicle dated the 9th of May and it deals with the
         11    accidents, the hunting accidents that occurred in the
         12    last year, 2000.
         13                   You will notice I've marked in yellow at
         14    the upper left that seven people were killed hunting last
         15    year in Texas.  You'll notice the yellow mark section in
         16    the lower right where it says that 29 percent of the
         17    seven people that were killed were killed dove hunting.
         18    If you take 29 percent, which is about one-third of
         19    seven -- correct me Mr. Montgomery if I'm wrong -- the
         20    numbers come out to be two approximately.  So my plea to
         21    you is to simply cancel dove hunting and save the two
         22    lives of two people that would be killed this year dove
         23    hunting.
         24                   Thank you.
         25                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  It might cost
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          1    nine lives up here.
          2                   Mr. Langford.
          3                   MR. LANGFORD:  Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
          4    members of the Commission.  I'm David Langford Texas
          5    Wildlife Association.  The comments that have been made
          6    to me for the last -- or just about every time that --
          7    that this department has considered this have been
          8    virtually unanimous that pretty much support the staff
          9    recommendation that -- and exactly along the geographic
         10    lines with the proposed in the North and the Central and
         11    the South.
         12                   However, yesterday some of the comments
         13    about the late season opening before on the Saturday
         14    before Christmas, that -- that also seems okay, but --
         15    and mainly because of our -- for both of those 70/12 and
         16    the -- the Saturday before Christmas would be biased
         17    because of our involvement with the Texas Youth Hunting
         18    Program with the department.  It gives us more
         19    opportunities to take kids to -- to experience the
         20    heritage of hunting.  And a lot of people, some of the
         21    comments are always about not -- not having doves that
         22    late in the season.  Well, listen, the kids involved in
         23    the Texas Youth Hunting Program they're not interested
         24    in -- in -- in a bag limit and just the opportunity to
         25    involve them in the outdoors is what we're looking for
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          1    and the extra ten days certainly would help that.
          2                   If the Sergeant at Arms will -- will not
          3    throw me out I want to again appreciate how much Texas
          4    Wildlife Association has appreciated your service,
          5    Chairman Bass.  And the comments by Commissioner
          6    Fitzsimons were exactly on target.  This is a different
          7    agency than it was ten years ago as evidenced by the
          8    event last night.  This -- this department and the
          9    regulated community have agreed that there's a way to
         10    work together to work on all these natural resource
         11    related problems and we appreciate your leadership into
         12    that -- into that situation.  That's terrific.  It was a
         13    great event last night.  I would recommend for the record
         14    for the new chairman to not hold the next one in enemy
         15    territory.  Thank you.
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  I believe that's -- that
         17    is all of the public comments on this item.  Any
         18    questions for Mr. Bevill or discussion at the
         19    Commission?
         20                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  You need a motion?
         21                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Certainly.
         22                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  If there's no further
         23    discussion, I move that for the Central and South zones,
         24    a 70-day 12-bird bag season with the addition of ten days
         25    to the winter season to open on the Saturday preceding
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          1    Christmas Day of each year.  For the North zone, maintain
          2    the 60-day 15-bird bag limit and hope -- and hold scoping
          3    sessions next fall in the North zone to gauge interest in
          4    instituting a winter season there.
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion.  Discussion?
          6                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Did that -- were you
          7    including the Central zone in the ten days?
          8                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Yes.  The South and
          9    Central zones.
         10                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Before the
         11    Christmas, -- the opening before Christmas in the Central
         12    zone also?
         13                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Yes.  Have them the
         14    same.
         15                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I don't
         16    understand.  Is the Central zone the first part or the
         17    second part of the season?
         18                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Second part.
         19                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Since the Central
         20    zone has a shorter season, only being ten days at that
         21    time, I'm not sure but leaving it where it is would be
         22    better because the later part of it, I think, is -- is
         23    better from the standpoint of availability of the birds.
         24    And from the youth standpoint, I think people who go home
         25    for Christmas holidays are going to be able to take part,
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          1    you know, all the way through the January 6th closing
          2    anyway.
          3                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Do I hear that you
          4    want to change the Central zone to leaving it the 26th
          5    and adding ten days in the Central zone?
          6                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  No.  No.  Leave it
          7    -- yes, the South zone as you stated and the Central
          8    zone to be December 26th through January 6th for the
          9    second season.
         10                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  The ten days to
         11    the first portion?
         12                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Yes, and add the ten
         13    days to the first portion.
         14                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  That's what I said, I
         15    believe.  There's some confusion here.
         16                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  That's what I just
         17    want to clarify.
         18                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Let me reread my
         19    motion here.  Central and South zones, 70-day, 12-bird
         20    bag season adding ten days to the winter season to open
         21    on the Saturday preceding Christmas Day of each year.
         22                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  But the only ten
         23    days we've got to add would be in the South zone.
         24                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  And the Central
         25    zone.
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          1                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Well, but the
          2    Central zone the ten days are added to the first part of
          3    the season, not the second part.
          4                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Hum.  Well, then, I
          5    --
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  I believe --
          7                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  So there's only --
          8    there's only ten days for winter season in the Central
          9    zone and I'm suggesting --
         10                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  I believe her motion is to
         11    add them to the second split rather than the first.
         12                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Even in the Central
         13    zone?
         14                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  That was my
         15    understanding.
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  I believe that's her
         17    motion.
         18                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Okay.  In that case,
         19    do we have a second, Mr. Chairman?
         20                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  If --
         21                   COMMISSIONER AVILA:  If we're in the right
         22    season it was amended.
         23                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Well, I was going to
         24    amend it if we've got a second.
         25                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Vernon, do you
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          1    understand what I just said?  Have I got the motion
          2    right?
          3                   MR. BEVILL:  I understand that you would
          4    be putting the ten days to the last -- to the second
          5    season segment in both the Central --
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Both Central.
          7                   MR. BEVILL:  -- and South zone.
          8                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Correct.
          9                   MR. BEVILL:  That's my understanding.
         10                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Correct.  And leaving
         11    the North zone as is.
         12                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  As an advocate for
         13    the Central zone, let me say that everybody that I have
         14    talked to practically -- personally in the Central zone
         15    wants the ten days additional to be October not -- not in
         16    January.
         17                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  I've got a lot
         18    of comments too.
         19                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  For the Central
         20    zone.
         21                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  I thought this was --
         22    well --
         23                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Which is the way --
         24    the way the staff recommended it and the exception that
         25    you were making, I thought was just to open the South
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          1    zone the Saturday before Christmas where you've got the
          2    extra ten days in the winter season.
          3                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Well --
          4                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  And that would be
          5    the only change from the recommendation.
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Is that an alternative
          7    motion?
          8                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Well, I make that as
          9    an alternative motion with the staff recommendation
         10    modified only -- only in the sense that the South zone
         11    late season would open the Saturday before Christmas.
         12                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  For clarity then --
         13                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  The North zone would
         14    be 15.
         15                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The North zone is 16 --
         16                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  The Central zone
         17    would be 12 and 70 with September 1st through October
         18    28th and December 26th through January 6th.  The South
         19    zone would be whatever it is.
         20                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  The Saturday
         21    preceding --
         22                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  The Saturday
         23    preceding Christmas for the extra ten days.
         24                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  With the extra ten days in
         25    the second season?
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          1                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  The late season.
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  All right.
          3                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Do I withdraw my
          4    motion or do I make a new motion?
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Well, I guess you have to
          6    withdraw before you --
          7                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  I withdraw the
          8    motion.
          9                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  You can accept
         10    it if you want.
         11                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Now, Ernie, you can
         12    make a new motion.  Get it right.
         13                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I have already made
         14    it Mr. Chairman or do I need to do it again?
         15                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  I think you should
         16    make it again for clarity sake.
         17                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  For clarity.
         18                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Okay.  Well, I
         19    would -- I would move adoption of the staff
         20    recommendation for the dove seasons with the only
         21    modification being that the South zone season would
         22    open -- the second season in South would open the
         23    Saturday before Christmas.
         24                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  I'll second that.
         25                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The Chair has a motion and
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          1    a second.  Any further discussion?
          2                   All in favor.
          3                   ("Aye").
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  Hearing
          5    none, the motion carries.
          6                   MR. BEVILL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
          7    "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
          8    amendments to 31 TAC Sections 65.315 and 65.319,
          9    concerning the Migratory Game Bird Proclamation, with
         10    changes to the proposed text (Located at Exhibit A) as
         11    published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the Texas
         12    Register (26 TexReg 3141)."
         13    Modification of Motion:
         14    Adoption of staff recommendation for the dove seasons
         15    with the only modification being that the South zone
         16    season would open - the second season in the South would
         17    open the Saturday before Christmas.
         19                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Item 3.  Which is deer
         20    management.  Jerry Cooke.  Item 3.  Thank you.
         21                   DR. COOKE:  Mr. Chairman and members, my
         22    name is Jerry Cooke, Game Branch Chief in the Wildlife
         23    Division.  I'll be presenting to you some proposed
         24    changes to various deer permit proclamations.  This will
         25    be a brief version of what we discussed yesterday.
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          1    Basically this proposed change revolve around issues that
          2    were identified by HB-2710 that was filed in the last
          3    Legislative session.  The primary issues within that bill
          4    was to allow scientific breeders to temporarily transfer
          5    buck deer from their facilities to a DMP or deer
          6    management permit breeding facility to increase the
          7    flexibility for Triple T transfers of deer for genetic
          8    purposes, to increase the number of personnel who could
          9    approve Triple T applications, and provide a formal
         10    appeals process for Triple T proclamations.
         11                   The issues within the issues basically
         12    were this:  I was directed to accommodate as many of the
         13    issues included in that bill into the Texas
         14    Administrative Code for proposals, that the -- that we
         15    should maintain the program's ideals of incentive based
         16    and habitat focus, that the responsibility for approval
         17    or disapproval of all permits would remain with
         18    department personnel, and that deer -- that deer may not
         19    be trapped from a breeding facility in a DMP permitted
         20    property with a Triple T permit, and that the rules
         21    wherever possible would remain fence type neutral.
         22                   The only -- the main issue within the bill
         23    that could not be accommodated in Texas Administrative
         24    Code is creating a new permit.  Only the legislature can
         25    do that.  But we can create a -- we can create a multiple
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          1    permit application process; in other words, one
          2    application for several permits and we can accommodate
          3    that just simply by the way we do the forms.  The
          4    proposed issues would have to be address in the three
          5    proclamations; one dealing with Triple T of game animals,
          6    one of the deer management permit, and then changes
          7    within the scientific breeder permit proclamations.
          8                   Many of the resource concerns related to
          9    these issues could be accommodated if they were linked
         10    into existing permit programs or existing approval
         11    processes on properties.  For example, if a property had
         12    been renewed therefore approved and renewed into a Level
         13    3 MLD permit and they had an established management plan
         14    in place and the request was to remove doe deer from the
         15    property using trapping and that was number was not more
         16    than what had already been approved to be removed during
         17    the hunting season with permits, no further inspection
         18    would really be required because this was already
         19    accommodated within the management plan.  If the releases
         20    on the property would not raise the population size above
         21    the target population size in the management plan, again,
         22    that would not be a resource issue and no further
         23    inspection would be required.  And if the population was
         24    to be reduced to accommodate a release, then so long as
         25    that reduction was less than half of the fawn crop, below
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          1    the target population size, then we wouldn't be dealing
          2    with a depletion issue.  This would be one way to address
          3    the resource issues related to this requested -- the
          4    request from the bill.
          5                   Also, currently our Triple T applications
          6    are inspected and reviewed and approved or disapproved by
          7    eight people in our division which are the district
          8    leaders in Texas.  And we would recommend, propose to
          9    change that from only these individuals to our senior
         10    biologist and our senior technicians, people who have
         11    extensive experience in the field.  This would be the NRS
         12    IIIs and IVs and our Fish and Wildlife Technicians IIIs
         13    and IVs.
         14                   To provide a formal appeals process,
         15    basically the process would be this:  If an individual
         16    were denied a permit he could immediately apply -- could
         17    immediately appeal it to the immediate supervisor of the
         18    individual who denied the permit.  If -- if the landowner
         19    didn't feel -- or the applicant didn't feel he had been
         20    accommodated appropriately, he could appeal it to a panel
         21    and that panel would be made up of the district leader,
         22    regional director responsible for the area.  The
         23    white-tailed deer statewide coordinator, me, and the
         24    divisional director.  The divisional director would be an
         25    amendment to what was published in the Register.  And we
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          1    would be reviewing that application from the standpoint
          2    of had the rules that you provided us been applied in an
          3    appropriate way as they are applied statewide.
          4                   If it is determined that a rule needed to
          5    be changed it would be handled exactly the way we handle
          6    all of our rule changes and that is discuss it with our
          7    advisory committees and other interested parties and then
          8    make a formal proposal to you-all.  This application -- I
          9    mean this appeal process would be part of our rules if
         10    adopted.  Within the deer management permit, the rules
         11    would have to be changed to allow a buck deer that was
         12    introduced from a scientific breeder facility be again
         13    trapped and removed separate from the other deer.  But
         14    that that trapping method needs to be addressing the
         15    welfare of the other deer that are in the pen as well.
         16    And the scientific breeder proclamation allowing for the
         17    temporary transfer to a DMP breeding facility would have
         18    to be provided in the rule.
         19                   There were some additional recommended
         20    changes to the scientific breeder proclamation which were
         21    really separate -- apart from the issues of 2710.  One is
         22    the definition an authorized agent providing a simple
         23    method of changing who your authorized agent is.  To
         24    allow photocopies of permits and invoices to be included
         25    in the annual report.  To change the requirement, the
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          1    current requirement of all deer having to be ear tagged
          2    by March 1 to March 31.  Also, one change that was not in
          3    the publication but -- but certainly we believe needs to
          4    be addressed.  Currently if a deer is to be moved ten
          5    days prior to a season or during a hunting season, the
          6    scientific breeder has to notify the department before
          7    that move takes place.  There are people other than
          8    scientific breeder permit holders who move deer under
          9    this program and the wording needs to be changed to
         10    include all of those people in that notification
         11    process.
         12                   One of the public comments that came
         13    forward during the hearings and in other discussions was
         14    that currently deer temporarily held in a DMP facility,
         15    deer management permit breeding facility, can't be
         16    released before March 1 which means that they're subject
         17    to a Triple T permit during that 31 days to the end of
         18    the trapping season.  And that we think that it would be
         19    more appropriate if instead of being held until March 1
         20    that they would be held until April 1 to be sure that
         21    those individuals held there and bred there stayed there
         22    on the property which was the intent of the permit
         23    program from the beginning.
         24                   If you have any other questions?  I have
         25    the recommended motion should you choose to adopt these
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          1    regulations.  Do you have any questions?
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  To be clear, the change to
          3    the April date is part of the staff recommendation --
          4                   DR. COOKE:  Yes.
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  -- on the release?
          6                   DR. COOKE:  Yes.  That is -- but -- but
          7    again that can't be adopted here in this action because
          8    that section is not open.
          9                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  So come back and do that
         10    later.
         11                   DR. COOKE:  Come back in August to adopt
         12    it should you choose to do so.
         13                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Are there any questions
         14    prior to public comment?  We do have some people who wish
         15    to speak on this.
         16                   John Henderson, if you would come forward
         17    and Jerry Johnston if you would be prepared to speak
         18    after Mr. Henderson.
         19                   MR. HENDERSON:  Good morning, Chairman
         20    Bass and other Commissioners.  I'm John Henderson,
         21    rancher retired Ag science teacher from Meridian, Bosque
         22    County, Texas.  I'd like to support the scientific
         23    breeder proclamation, the deer management proclamation
         24    and the Triple T proclamations.  Thank you.
         25                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, Mr. Henderson.
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          1    Jerry Johnston.  And J.N. Grimes if you would be prepared
          2    to speak next.
          3                   MR. JOHNSTON:  Good morning,
          4    Commissioners, Chairman Bass.  I'm Jerry Johnston
          5    representing Texas Deer Association.  Our president was
          6    called back to Corpus on an emergency, so he's not going
          7    be able to be here this morning so I've got 275 people
          8    that are in support of the proclamations.  Just give them
          9    to her?
         10                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Please.
         11                   MR. JOHNSTON:  There might be one thing
         12    that should where considered in regards to the April 1st
         13    could be a solution that might be looked into and that
         14    would be that anybody holding a DMP permit, if they were
         15    in possession of a Triple T, the last date that Triple T
         16    could be used would be prior to the release date of their
         17    deer.  Would be something to look into.  But just give
         18    these to --
         19                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Yes, if you would give
         20    them to Ms. Estrada, please, that would be appropriate.
         21                   MR. JOHNSTON:  Real quickly, though, I've
         22    been messing around this deer business for 25 years and
         23    during that time there's been a lot of different sets of
         24    Commissioners up here and I think our group's going to
         25    miss you.  Thank you.
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.
          2                   J.N. Grimes, and David Langford if you
          3    would be prepared to speak next.
          4                   MR. GRIMES:  Good morning, Commissioner
          5    Bass.  I thank you-all for allowing me to speak.  I'm
          6    from -- J.N. Grimes from Jacksonville, Texas.  I'm a
          7    Dairy Queen operator.  I'm a deer raiser.  Have -- and a
          8    rancher and I'm supporting the rules changes and as
          9    recommended.
         10                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank your, sir.  David
         11    Langford, and Ellis Gilleland if you would be prepared to
         12    speak after Mr. Langford.
         13                   MR. LANGFORD:  Thank you again,
         14    Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission.  I'm David
         15    Langford, Texas Wildlife Association.  And we approve the
         16    motion as presented and would ask that the motion also
         17    include going forward with the April 1st date or the
         18    other solution that Jerry Johnston presented so that
         19    everything gets tied up.  These -- all the loose ends are
         20    tied up by the August Commission meeting which is for the
         21    next trapping season.  So whatever the legalities and --
         22    and proper procedure is to approve that motion and to
         23    include going forward in the Register with the April 1st
         24    date or the suggestion of Jerry Johnston so that we can
         25    address that at the August meeting.
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          1                   Thank you very much.
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you,
          3    Mr. Langford.
          4                   Mr. Gilleland, please.
          5                   MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis
          6    Gilleland.  I'm a private citizen.  I'm representing
          7    Texas Animals which is an Internet organization promoting
          8    animal rights and animal welfare.  I would like to first
          9    of all protest that three minutes is not sufficient to
         10    address three rules.  We should be getting three minutes
         11    each.
         12                   The first comment I would like to make
         13    pertains to the trapping and transport portion of this.
         14    I would like to see as a citizen some mention in the
         15    rules about your statutory authority for giving away
         16    white-tail deer to Mexico.  You're transporting thousands
         17    of deer to hunting ranches in Northern Mexico with no
         18    statutory authority.  I would like to see that in a rule,
         19    your basis.  The second thing I would like to see in the
         20    rule is what money you're receiving from Mexico or what
         21    renumeration for these deer.
         22                   The second aspect of this I would like to
         23    address is the portion that deals with the tagging and
         24    unique numbers.  If you turn to 65.601 -- this is on
         25    scientific breeding portion.  If you turn to 65.601 you
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          1    see subparagraph 10 it says, "If the permittee chooses to
          2    assign unique numbers, each deer must be tattooed,"
          3    et cetera.  But yet when you turn to 65.607, marking of
          4    deer subparagraph B it says that is no ifs, ands, or buts
          5    optional.  It says, "They will be permanently tattooed in
          6    one or both ears with a unique number."  So you've got at
          7    mismatch there.  Do you want -- is it mandatory or not or
          8    is it optional or not.  The second item you have is a
          9    mismatch 65.609 where the concept is deer being put into
         10    captivity pens for breeding and nursing.  That thread
         11    runs all the way through this can of worms.  Yet you say
         12    if they are not hunted prior to liberation, they being
         13    the deer, you say if the deer are not hunted.  Well,
         14    again there's no option for hunting because the deer are
         15    in the pens.  Why do you want to hunt nursing and
         16    breeding deer?  Isn't that counterproductive?  I think
         17    all of you are intelligent enough to understand that.  If
         18    you kill an animal that's breeding or nursing, doesn't
         19    that negate the effect of putting them in the pen?  So
         20    please eliminate where it says optional.  Put in, "and
         21    they shall not be hunted prior to liberation."
         22                   Thank you.
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you, Mr. Gilleland.
         24    Dr. Cooke, do you have any comments?
         25                   DR. COOKE:  Do you have any specific
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          1    question about comments that were made?  I'd be happy to
          2    address those.
          3                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any specific questions.
          4    Any -- would you respond to Mr. Gilleland's question, if
          5    you would, please.
          6                   DR. COOKE:  Related to moving deer to
          7    Mexico, as far as the State of Texas is concerned, this
          8    is no different than assisting any other agency in
          9    restoration efforts.  For instance, we supply Rio Grande
         10    turkeys to the State of Nevada.  They have a huntable
         11    turkey population in Nevada because of Rio Grande turkeys
         12    from Texas.  Big-horned sheep are moved from state to
         13    state and under the same authority we move white-tail
         14    deer to the regulating entity in Mexico which is the --
         15    which is the -- our -- in the U.S. the Fish and Wildlife
         16    Service is what they are but their states have no
         17    authority over wildlife.  So basically our agreement is
         18    between the State of Texas and the federalies in Mexico.
         19    And the sites where they are moved to are those sites put
         20    forward by Mexico as restoration sites.  There are no
         21    monies changing hands here.
         22                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.
         23                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Mr. Chairman.
         24                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Yes, please.
         25                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Dr. Cooke, what about
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          1    the conflicts in the regulations that were previously
          2    mentioned by Mr. Gilleland?  Did you follow those?
          3                   DR. COOKE:  I followed them but I didn't
          4    see them as conflicts.  Basically there's an
          5    alternative -- there's alternative methods of -- of using
          6    unique numbers to mark deer from a breeding -- from a
          7    scientific breeder pen.  It can be numbers supplied by
          8    us, it can could be numbers that they come up with
          9    themselves that are in fact unique, which is that say
         10    includes their breeder number that's part of their
         11    permit.  They are not required to tattoo any deer that is
         12    not removed from their facility.  So basically the only
         13    conditional is if you take them out of a facility you
         14    will have an unique number tattooed into their ear.  But
         15    if they don't leave the facility, they're not required to
         16    have a unique number attached to their ear.  The main
         17    purpose of that is to follow animals as they move between
         18    facilities.  When an animal is going down the road, our
         19    law enforcement people need to know where they come from
         20    and the background on them.  That's the issue.
         21                   As we discussed or maybe I didn't discuss
         22    earlier, the primary issue in dealing with the scientific
         23    breeder proclamation is a very simple one.  There's a
         24    fence and on this side of the fence are deer that they
         25    purchased and are part of their program, and on this side
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          1    of the fence are deer that belong to the people of the
          2    State of Texas.  And the rules are designed to see that
          3    the two don't meet.  And that law enforcement can tease
          4    apart the difference.
          5                   Did that answer your question, sir?  Thank
          6    you.
          7                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Are there other
          8    questions?  The chair would entertain a motion.
          9                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Mr. Chairman, prior
         10    to the motion I wanted to address the proposal and
         11    recognize the hard work of the staff, which I do
         12    appreciate.  We discussed the issue of the managed deer
         13    permits several years ago, and at that point in time I
         14    expressed my grave concern about that particular
         15    program.  And when I came to the meeting yesterday it was
         16    the thought that, well, this is, you know, another small
         17    step and it will perhaps make things clearer or easier.
         18    But in hearing the discussion yesterday and looking back
         19    at the proposal and talking last night with several
         20    members of the public -- Private Lands Advisory Committee
         21    and in thinking about the concerns that I had expressed
         22    before, I've come to this proposal today with a vote
         23    against it.  And again, it's because of the provision for
         24    the managed deer permits.  I think that the -- the wild
         25    animals belong to all Texans.  The deer are wild animals,
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          1    and I think that anytime that we do something with the
          2    deer, the managed deer permits, that we're moving down
          3    the road to privatization.  And I so I wanted to express
          4    that before we move forward with this proposal.  Before I
          5    did not register a vote at all.  And today I will vote
          6    against it and for those reasons if the proposal is
          7    moved.
          8                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  Any further
          9    discussion?  The chair would entertain a motion.
         10                   COMMISSIONER AVILA:  So moved.
         11                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The chair has had motion
         12    to accept staff's proposal.
         13                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Second.
         14                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  And a second.  All in
         15    favor.
         16                   ("Aye").
         17                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Opposed.
         18                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Nay.
         19                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The motion carries.  Thank
         20    you.
         21    "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
         22    amendments to 31 TAC Chapter 65, Subchapter E, L, and R
         23    (located at Exhibit A), concerning the Scientific Breeder
         24    Proclamation, the Triple T Proclamation, and the Deer
         25    Management Proclamation, with changes to the proposed
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          1    text as published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the
          2    Texas Register (26 TexReg, 3137-3145.)"
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Aquaculture MOU, Raenell
          5    Silcox, please, or actually Dr. McKinney.
          6                   DR. McKINNEY:  Mr. Chairman, Andy is
          7    correct it's difficult to say that for the last time
          8    today.  I'm filling in for Raenell --
          9                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  You can still call me
         10    that.
         11                   DR. McKINNEY:  Yes, sir, I will certainly
         12    do that.  Raenell had a family emergency and had to
         13    leave, so I'm going to fill in for her but hopefully we
         14    can move through this quickly.  Hold this down again.
         15    This an item which we briefed you on yesterday in
         16    hearing.  Basically as was noted yesterday in the
         17    workshop, this is a chronology of events that led up to
         18    the original MOU, so I won't repeat that.
         19                   What we're bringing before you today is a
         20    revised MOU to incorporate the requirements of the last
         21    Legislative session to -- to bring into play the
         22    Department of Agriculture along with some other changes
         23    required by that Legislation.  They are summarized on
         24    this slide for you as well.  We received no public
         25    comment and so pending other discussion or questions from
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          1    the Commission, staff would recommend the adoption of the
          2    motion that is -- you see before you on your screen.  So,
          3    Mr. Chairman, I'm ready for any questions that you may
          4    have.
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have no public comment,
          6    the Chair would entertain discussion or questions.
          7                   COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY:  Just one
          8    comment.  In the briefing you-all gave us raised the
          9    issue of the fixed time periods in which to respond for
         10    permitting and I understand how it's handled.  I'm
         11    certainly going to vote for it.  I would like to ask any
         12    members of the industry or our own staff as we go forward
         13    with this and other regulatory matters, permitting
         14    procedures, that we really watch our deadlines and make
         15    sure we respond promptly.  I think frequently regulated
         16    business' biggest problem with permitting is the time it
         17    takes rather than the compliance itself.  So I commend
         18    our team for putting deadlines in there, I would just
         19    like to keep an eye on that as we go forward in case we
         20    need to modify that procedure to put a drop dead on us so
         21    we don't hold people up unduly.
         22                   DR. McKINNEY:  Duly noted and certainly
         23    supported, yes, sir.
         24                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Mr. Bass, I would
         25    move approval.
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          1                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have a motion and a
          3    second.  All in favor?
          4                   ("Aye").
          5                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  The motion
          6    carries.  Thank you.
          7                   DR. McKINNEY:  Thank you, sir.
          8    "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts amended
          9    31 TAC Section 57.135 (located at Exhibit A) as published
         10    in the April 27, 2001 issue of the Texas Register (26
         11    TexReg 3136), adopting by reference the Memorandum of
         12    Understanding Between the Texas Natural Resource
         13    Conservation Commission, the Texas Parks and Wildlife
         14    Department and the Texas Department of Agriculture
         15    (located at Exhibit B)."
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have a briefing on
         17    Covert and Environmental Operations.
         19    OPERATIONS
         20                   (Whereupon, a briefing item was
         21                   presented to the Commissioners, after
         22                   which, the following proceedings were
         23                   had:)
         24                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Go ahead.
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          1    VETERANS
          2                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  We will turn next to
          3    Item No. 6 on the agenda which is an action item.  And it
          4    is Stamp Fee for Disabled Veterans.  And Frances Stiles.
          5    Welcome.
          6                   MS. STILES:  Good morning.
          7                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Good morning.
          8                   MS. STILES:  My name is Frances Stiles.
          9    I'm with the Administrative Resources Division.  I'm here
         10    to present a proposal to you for the Disabled Veterans
         11    hunting and fishing license to add hunting and fishing
         12    stamps to the existing license.  Currently the agency
         13    offers a Disabled Veteran's license that consists of a
         14    hunting and fishing license to those who qualify under
         15    the Veteran's Administration definition for disabled.
         16    What the proposal adds is the five hunting stamps and the
         17    two fishing stamps to this license keeping the cost at no
         18    fee to disabled Veterans.  This -- this item has been
         19    published in the Texas Register in order to implement
         20    this for the next year's license season.  And we have
         21    received no comments on that.  This would impact the
         22    Texas Administrative Code and -- and Section 5390 to the
         23    Code.
         24                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Thank you,
         25    Ms. Stiles.  Do members of the Commission have any
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          1    questions?
          2                   We will take public comments then.
          3    Mr. Gilleland, please.
          4                   MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis
          5    Gilleland.  I'm speaking for Texas Animals which is an
          6    Internet organization animal rights, animal welfare
          7    organization on the Internet.  In regard to this program
          8    for disabled Veterans, it's such a great program I think
          9    you ought to extend it to the -- extend the scope to all
         10    Veterans.  Why limit it just to the disabled Veterans?  I
         11    would make two minor modifications in that
         12    recommendation.  Number one is that you double the stamp
         13    fee instead of eliminating it.  And, number two, require
         14    that all these people go to a psychiatrist and take a
         15    psychological examination and receive psychological
         16    counseling because they did not get enough killing in
         17    Vietnam.  They're obviously sick.  Thank you.
         18                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Ms. Stiles?  Any
         19    comments or questions by any members of the Commission?
         20    Hearing none, the Chair would entertain a motion on this
         21    item.
         22                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  I so move.
         23                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  Second.
         24                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  It's been moved by
         25    Commissioner Watson and seconded by Commissioner Henry
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          1    that this agenda item be approved.  Any further
          2    discussion?  All in favor say "aye."
          3                   ("Aye").
          4                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Those opposed, nay.
          5    The motion carries.  Thank you, Ms. Stiles.
          6                   MS. STILES:  Thank you.
          7    "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the
          8    proposed Rule, Title 31, Texas Administrative Code,
          9    Chapter 53 (Finance), section 53.90 as published in the
         10    April 27, 2001 Texas Register with an effective date of
         11    August 15, 2001."
         13                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  The next agenda item
         14    is the No. 7, the fleet policy.  Mr. Cook.
         15                   MR. COOK:  Good morning.  Commissioners,
         16    my name is Robert L. Cook, Chief Operating Officer.  This
         17    rule is required for compliance with House Bill 3125 from
         18    the 76th Legislature which created the statewide fleet
         19    management plan.  House Bill 3125 placed a statewide
         20    moratorium on the purchase of new vehicles.  The counsel
         21    on competitive government established a provision within
         22    the statewide fleet management plan that the moratorium
         23    would not be lifted for an agency until it adopted the
         24    statewide fleet management plan.  In order for an agency
         25    to adopt the plan it must have the General Services
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          1    Commission office of fleet management approve the
          2    agency's fleet management plan and the agency must adopt
          3    specified rules.
          4                   TPWD's fleet management plan has been
          5    approved and the moratorium has been lifted because we
          6    were able to show that our rules are on the Commission
          7    agenda, continued removal of the moratorium is contingent
          8    upon rule approval.  The rules state as follows:  "Each
          9    agency vehicle with the exception of a vehicle assigned
         10    to a field employee shall be assigned to the agency motor
         11    pool and be available for checkout.  And the agency may
         12    assign a vehicle to an individual administrative or
         13    executive employee on a regular basis only if the agency
         14    makes a written documented finding that the assignment is
         15    critical to the needs and mission of the agency."  And
         16    there's our motion.  Be glad to take any questions.
         17                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Gilleland, you wish to
         18    speak on this item?
         19                   MR. GILLELAND:  Yes, sir, I have some
         21                   MR. GILLELAND:  My name is Ellis
         22    Gilleland.  I'm a private citizen speaking for Texas
         23    Animals which is an animals rights organization on the
         24    Internet.  The comments I have to do -- have to make are
         25    based on observing the use of Parks and Wildlife vehicles
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          1    over about a ten-year period.  First of all, I think this
          2    is rule is fraudulent.  This is 51.152 because number A
          3    in Paragraph A you establish a rule to limit the use,
          4    private use of vehicles.  Yes a lawyer would smile and
          5    then under B you write in a loophole.  And the loophole
          6    negates what you wrote under A.  This is so crudely done
          7    I doubt that it was done by a licensed lawyer.  The rule
          8    should read under B, "The agency may not assign to an
          9    individual, administrative or the executive employee on a
         10    regular basis a parks and wildlife vehicle," period.  Yet
         11    you go on and you add the loophole, and so my
         12    recommendation is to put a period after "basis" and cut
         13    out the loophole.
         14                   Secondly, what is regular?  Look in the
         15    dictionary for regular and you'll see about twenty
         16    different definitions.  It means -- and the ambiguous
         17    word "regular" on a "regular basis" means absolutely
         18    zilch, particularly in court.  Please define "regular" to
         19    mean full-time, to assign a vehicle full-time or to
         20    assign it during nonduty hours to the same person or
         21    assign on a weekend basis.  I know you will ignore this
         22    because it sensible and logical and will save the
         23    government money.  So I'm asking you to, number two, when
         24    you pass this, pull these people's government credit
         25    card.  Make them put their own money in the gas tank.
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          1    You want to give them the vehicle, okay, make them put
          2    gas in the gas tank.  Pull those cotton picking
          3    government credit cards and number two stop them from
          4    driving especially executive director driving unmarked
          5    cars.  Put at Texas seal on the door, both doors and the
          6    trunk.  Paint them white with a green stripe, put neon
          7    lights, whatever, so the public will know that these
          8    scoundrels are driving public vehicles on the weekends
          9    for their own pleasure to home, wherever, spending my
         10    money, my tax dollar unethically, perhaps not illegally.
         11                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Gilleland, you're
         12    getting out of order.  Would you please conclude your
         14                   MR. GILLELAND:  Yes, sir.  Thank you.
         15                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any further discussion?
         16                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I move approval of
         17    the recommendation.
         18                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Second.
         19                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The chair has a motion and
         20    a second.  Any discussion?  All in favor say "aye."
         21                   ("Aye").
         22                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed.  The motion
         23    carries.  Thank you, Mr. Cook.
         24    "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission authorizes staff
         25    to adopt the new rule Section 51.152 regarding the Texas
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          1    Parks and Wildlife Vehicle Management Plan."
          3    LEASE - FAYETTE COUNTY
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Kathy Boydston.
          5    Nomination for oil and gas lease.
          6                   MS. BOYDSTON:  Hello, Mr. Chairman,
          7    Commissioners, my name is Kathy Boydston, Program Leader
          8    for the Wildlife Habitat Assessment Program in the
          9    Wildlife Division.  The department received a nomination
         10    for an oil and gas lease on the tract as Monument
         11    Hill/Kreische Brewery State Park in Fayette County.  The
         12    department owns 100 percent of the mineral interests for
         13    the 39.54 acre-tract.  Staff recommends the Commission
         14    continue its policy requiring a minimum bonus bid of $150
         15    per acre, a 25 percent royalty and a $10 per acre delay
         16    rental for a three-year term.  It is also proposed that
         17    the lease be subject to the conditions shown in Exhibit
         18    A.  And there's the staff recommendation for you to
         19    consider.
         20                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any questions?  No public
         21    comment, the Chair would entertain a motion.
         22                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved.
         23                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  We have a motion and a
         24    second.  All in favor.
         25                   ("Aye").
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  The motion
          2    carries.  Thank you, Ms. Boydston.
          3                   MS. BOYDSTON:  Thank you.
          4    "The Executive Director is authorized to nominate for oil
          5    and gas lease to the Board for Lease for Parks and
          6    Wildlife Lands, the Department's mineral interest in the
          7    Monument Hill/Kreische Brewery State Parks, at $150 per
          8    acre with a 25 percent royalty, $10 per acre rental, and
          9    a 3-year term, incorporating the restrictions set out in
         10    Exhibit A."
         12                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Local park funding.  Tim
         13    Hogsett.
         14                   MR. HOGSETT:  Good morning.
         15    Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett,
         16    Director of the Recreation Grants Program in the State
         17    Parks Division.  This item is consideration of
         18    supplemental funding for applicants to the Federal Urban
         19    Parks and Recreation Recovery Program which is a program
         20    of the U.S. Department of Interior National Parks
         21    Service.  U.S. Congress has recently appropriated $28
         22    million for fiscal year 2001 to be granted to local
         23    governments throughout the country from the Urban Parks
         24    Recreation Recovery Program.
         25                   Texas local governments collectively are
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          1    eligible for $4,325,400 in that competition.  The program
          2    authorizes competitive Federal assistance to urban
          3    localities for rehabilitation of critically needed
          4    recreation facilities.  The fund can only be used for
          5    existing facilities and not new facilities.  Grants to
          6    local governments or are local -- are matching grants
          7    with a Federal share being no more than 70 percent of the
          8    project.  There's also an incentive for states to
          9    participate in the match costs and when the states do
         10    participate financially, the remaining match may be
         11    shared by the states up to 15 percent of the program
         12    cost.  Federal government then on a dollar-per-dollar
         13    basis will match the state contribution thus lessening
         14    the local government's required commitment.
         15                   In previous years the Commission has
         16    chosen to make a match commitment of 10 percent from
         17    state funds resulting in an increase of the Federal share
         18    for projects from 70 to 80 percent and lessening the
         19    local commitment from 30 to 10 percent.  A 10 percent
         20    commitment in the past has been important to ensure that
         21    the local governments have an investment in the program.
         22    A 10 percent department commitment would be 300 and --
         23    would be $432,540 and any uncommitted funds would revert
         24    back to the department.  And this is the staff
         25    recommendation.  Be glad to answer any questions that you
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          1    have.
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any questions of
          3    Mr. Hogsett?  There's no public comment on this.  The
          4    Chair would entertain a motion.
          5                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  So moved.
          6                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Second.
          7                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and a second.  Any
          8    discussion?  All in favor.
          9                   ("Aye").
         10                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed.  Hearing
         11    none, the motion passes.  Thank you, Mr. Hogsett.
         12    "Funding in the amount of up to $432,540 is reserved to
         13    be used, at the direction of the Executive Director, to
         14    match 10% of the cost for UPARR projects approved by the
         15    National Park Service for Texas local governments."
         18                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Land acquisition, Karen
         19    Leslie, San Patricio County.
         20                   MS. LESLIE:  Mr. Chairman, thank you for
         21    all your many challenges through the years when it comes
         22    to land acquisition for Texas Park and Wildlife.
         23                   Chairman and Commissioners, I'm Karen
         24    Leslie.  I'm a project manager in land conservation.
         25    This item was discussed in the Conservation Committee
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          1    Executive Session yesterday.  The item summarizes that
          2    discussion.  The property contains some 50 acres and will
          3    be used to accommodate a new wastewater treatment plant
          4    at the park.  The purchase will protect the natural
          5    resources in the parks.  We were very concerned about
          6    destroying the brush if we had to use the park for the
          7    wastewater treatment facilities.
          8                   Staff recommends the Commission consider
          9    the motion to acquire the property as an addition to Lake
         10    Corpus Christi State Park.  I'd be glad to entertain any
         11    questions.
         12                   VICE-CHAIR DINKINS:  Mr. Chairman, I would
         13    like the record to reflect that I have filed a letter
         14    with Mr. Sansom recusing myself from consideration of or
         15    voting on this item.
         16                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Let the record so
         17    reflect.  Any questions.  There's no public comment.  The
         18    Chair would entertain a motion?
         19                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved.
         20                   COMMISSIONER HENRY:  I'd second.
         21                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The motion and a second.
         22    Any discussion?  All in favor say "Aye."
         23                   ("Aye").
         24                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  Hearing
         25    none, the motion passes.  Thank you, Ms. Leslie.  And
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          1    would you move onto El Paso County for us.
          2    "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
          3    necessary to purchase approximately 50 acres in San
          4    Patricio County as an addition to Lake Corpus Christi
          5    State park."
          8                   MS. LESLIE:  Chairman and Commissioners,
          9    this item also reflects a summary of what we discuss in
         10    Executive Session yesterday.  This property contains
         11    approximately 46 acres.  It's located on the southeast
         12    corner of Franklin Mountains State Park.  It will ensure
         13    the view shed of the department operated while our area
         14    tramway if so approved.
         15                   Staff recommends the Commission consider
         16    the motion to acquire the acreage as an addition to
         17    enhance the tramway at Franklin Mountains State Park.
         18    Any questions?
         19                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  There's no public
         20    comment.  Any questions or a motion?
         21                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I would move
         22    approval, Mr. Chairman.
         23                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  Second.
         24                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Motion and a second.
         25    Discussion?  All in favor?
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          1                   ("Aye").
          2                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  Hearing
          3    none, the motion carries.
          4                   Thank you, Ms. Leslie.  Jack Bauer.
          5    "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
          6    necessary to purchase approximately 46.01 acres in El
          7    Paso County as an addition to Franklin Mountains State
          8    Park."
         11                   MR. BAUER:  Chairman Bass and
         12    Commissioners, I'm Jack Bauer, Director of the Land
         13    Conservation Program.  The Texas Legislature has passed
         14    House Concurrent Resolution No. 105 directing Parks and
         15    Wildlife and the Parks and Wildlife Commission to
         16    exchange property at Mission Tejas State Historical Park
         17    with the Weches Cemetery Association.  The transaction
         18    recommended has been fully coordinated the local
         19    legislative representative, the Parks and Wildlife staff,
         20    the Weches Cemetery Association and the Houston County
         21    Commissioner's Court.
         22                   The Staff recommends the Parks and
         23    Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to affect
         24    the land exchange as directed by the Legislature.  I
         25    would be happy to answer any questions.
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          1                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Questions?  There's no
          2    public comment on this item today.  The Chair would
          3    entertain a motion.
          4                   COMMISSIONER AVILA:  So moved.
          5                   COMMISSIONER IDSAL:  Second.
          6                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  The motion and a second.
          7    Any discussion?  All in favor say "Aye."
          8                   ("Aye").
          9                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  The motion
         10    carries.  Thank you.
         11                   MR. BAUER:  Thank you.
         12    "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
         13    necessary to transfer approximately 1.238-acres of land
         14    in exchange for approximately 0.084-acres owned by Weches
         15    Cemetery Association in Houston County."
         18                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Ray - Travis and
         19    Williamson Counties.
         20                   MR. RAY:  Mr. Chairman and Commissioners,
         21    I'm Ronnie Ray -- oh, excuse me -- Project Manager for
         22    Land Conversation.  Texas Parks and Wildlife owns two
         23    tracts of property as part of the Lakeline Mall Habitat
         24    Conversation plan for mitigation of altered endangered
         25    species habitat.  These properties are the Testudo Tube
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          1    Cave Preserve and the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve.
          2                   It would best serve the interest of the
          3    Texas Parks and Wildlife to transfer the title and the
          4    plan operator responsibilities of these two tracts to
          5    parties whose interest would be better served as owners
          6    and caretakers of these properties.  The City of Austin
          7    has expressed interest in the Testudo Tube Preserve and
          8    the United States Army Corps. of Engineers has expressed
          9    interest in the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve.
         10                   Staff recommends the Texas Parks and
         11    Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to effect
         12    the transfer of these properties to the City of Austin
         13    and to the U.S. Corps. of Engineers.  Any questions?
         14                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  If there are no questions,
         15    the Chair would entertain a motion.
         16                   COMMISSIONER WATSON:  So moved.
         17                   COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  Second.
         18                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any discussion?  All in
         19    favor say "Aye."
         20                   ("Aye").
         21                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Any opposed?  The motion
         22    carries.  Thank you, Mr. Ray.
         23    "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
         24    necessary to consummate the transfer of approximately 26
         25    acres known as the Testudo Tube Cave Preserve to the City
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          1    of Austin, Texas and approximately 106 acres known as the
          2    Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve to the United States Army
          3    Corps. of Engineers."
          4                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Mr. Sansom, is there any
          5    other business to come before this Commission today?
          6                   EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:  No, sir.
          7                   CHAIRMAN BASS:  Being none, I declare
          8    ourselves adjourned.  Thank you all very much.
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          1    STATE OF TEXAS           )
               COUNTY OF TRAVIS         )
          4              I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in
          5    and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the
          6    above and foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and
          7    correct transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and
          8    Wildlife Commission on May 31, 2001, in the Commission
          9    hearing room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters
         10    Complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas.  I FURTHER CERTIFY
         11    that a stenographic record was made by me at the time of
         12    the public meeting and said stenographic notes were
         13    thereafter reduced to computerized transcription  under
         14    my supervision and control.  WITNESS MY HAND this ____
         15    day of ____________________, 2001.
         18                        ___________________________
                                   KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589
         19                        Expiration Date:  12/2002
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         20                        Suite 220, Centre II
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         21                        (512) 328-5557
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          2    LEE M. BASS, CHAIRMAN
          3    ___________________________
          5    PHIL MONTGOMERY
          6    ___________________________
               JOSEPH FITZSIMONS
          8    ERNEST ANGELO, JR.
          9    ___________________________
               JOHN AVILA, JR.
         11    ALVIN L. HENRY
         12    ___________________________
         14    MARK E. WATSON, JR.
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