Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Annual Public Hearing
August 29, 2001
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
1
5 BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 29th day
6 of August, 2001, there came to be heard matters under the
7 regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission of
8 Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas Parks and
9 Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas, beginning at
10 2:05 p.m., to wit:
11
12 APPEARANCES:
THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
13
ANNUAL PUBLIC HEARING:
14 CHAIRMAN: Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
Donato D. Ramos, Laredo, Texas
15 Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
Philip Montgomery, Dallas, Texas
16 Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
17 Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
18 Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas
19
20
21 THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other personnel of
22 the Parks and Wildlife Department
23
24
25
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1 LIST OF SPEAKERS:
2 MATTER OF INTEREST: Riverbeds
3 Trey Powers, Texas Department of Agriculture, Former
4 Rep. Susan Combs’ Office
5
6 MATTER OF INTEREST: Appreciation
7 John Jefferson, 10433 Firethorn Lane, Austin, TX 78758
8 Dr. Scott Henke, Texas Chapter of the Wildlife Society
9 David K. Langford, Texas Wildlife Association
10
11 MATTER OF INTEREST: Education & Outreach Programs and
Pre-Expo Rally
12
Monica Lamb (retired Houston Comet), ML Wellness Foundation,
13
6309 MLK, Houston, TX 77021
14
15 MATTER OF INTEREST: River degradation-Nueces River and
ATV Use
16
Jeannie Dullnig, Stewards of the Nueces, 4 Dorchester, San
17
Antonio, TX 78209
18
Allen L. Mize, 112 Larkspur St., Uvalde, TX 78801
19
Carl D. Seyffert, HC 33 Box 628A, Uvalde, TX 78801
20
Robert M. Dullnig, Stewards of the Nueces, 4 Dorchester
21
Pl., San Antonio, TX 78209 (pass)
22
Con Mims, Nueces River Authority, 200 E. Nopal, POB 349,
23
Uvalde, TX 78802-0349
24
Charles Draper, Steward of the Nueces River, 4609 Trail Crest
25
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1 Circle, Austin, TX 78735
2 John Earl Teague, Conserving the Nueces River, Box 396, Camp
3 Wood, TX 78833
4 Fred J. Wallace, Park Chalk Bluff, HC 33 Box 566, Uvalde, TX
5 78801
6 James A. Middleton, San Antonio Adv. Society, 358 Sandalwood
7 Ln, San Antonio, TX 78216
8 Wright Friday, Stewards of the Nueces, Box 1, Uvalde, TX
9 78802
10 Ray McKnight, Stewards of the Nueces, Box 48, Cap Wood, TX
11 78833
12 Raynice Shudde, 111 Beat Oak Trail, Uvalde, TX 78801 (pass)
13 John Shudde, 111 Bent Oak Trail, Uvalde, TX 78801
14 Seth Davidson, Fermata Inc., POB 5485, Austin, TX 78763-5485
15 Tom Taylor, Dry Creek Road, Barksdale, TX 78828
16 Don Friend, Stewards of the Nueces, #1 Friends Trail, Uvalde,
17 TX 78801 (pass)
18 Janice Trevino, Stewards of the Nueces, 1410 Hunter Green,
19 Fresno, TX 77545
20 H.W. Kilpatrick, HCR 33 Box 611, Uvalde, TX 78801
21 Allan P. Bloxsom, III, 221 N. Getty 2nd Floor, Uvalde, TX
22 78801
23 Sheri Rutledge, Texas Hill Country River Region, 311 N. Getty
24 St., Uvalde, TX 78801
25
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1 MATTER OF INTEREST: Texas Recreation and Park
Account-commend State Park System
2
3 Douglas Evans, City of Grapevine, TRAPS, DFW Director, POB
4 95104, Grapevine, TX 76099
5
6 MATTER OF INTEREST: Llano River
7 Leo Perron, 3707 N. St. Mary’s, San Antonio, TX 78212
8
9 MATTER OF INTEREST: Water Issues
10 Bill West, Guadalupe Blanco River Authority, 933 E. Court
11 St., Seguin, TX 78155
12
13 MATTER OF INTEREST: River Conservation
14 John Gosdin, Texas Rivers Conservation Advisory Board
15
16 MATTER OF INTEREST: Inland Fisheries & Fee Increases
17 Will Kirkpatrick, The Fishing School, Rt 1 Box 138 PC,
18 Broaddus, TX 75929
19 David Stewart, SMART, 3415 Shenandoah Dr., Cedar Park, TX
20 78613
21
22 MATTER OF INTEREST: Seashells
23 Colley’s Fins to Feathers, Live Shells of Texas, POB 2611,
24 South Padre Island, TX 78597
25
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1 MATTER OF INTEREST: TPWD Practices--Nonsupportive
2 Ellis Gilleland, Texas Animals, POB 9001, Austin, TX 78766
3
4 MATTER OF INTEREST: Alcohol Advertising
5 Jim Haire, 5801 Regents Row, Tyler, TX 75703
6 Janet Taylor, Texans Standing Tall, Chamber Coalition for a
7 Better Community, 1615 S. Chestnut, Lufkin, TX 75901
8
9 MATTER OF INTEREST: Historic Sites and Parks
10 Terry Colley, Texas Historical Commission, POB 12276, Austin,
11 TX 78711
12 Myron Hess, Texans for State Parks, 1705 Margaret, Austin, TX
13 78701
14
15 MATTER OF INTEREST: Coastal Fishery; Shrimping Regs; Seabobs
16 Richard E. Moore, PISCES, Rt 3 Box 784, Dickinson, TX 77539
17 Muriel Tipps, Matagorda County Seafood Rep, POB 260, Cedar
18 Lane, TX 77415
19 Dwayne Harrison, PISCES, 2617 Heritage Colony, Webster, TX
20 77598
21 Wesley Blevins, Calhoun County Shrimpers, POB 752, Seadrift,
22 TX 77983
23 Brian Sybert, Sierra Club, POB 1931, Austin, TX 78767
24 Pam Baker, Evironmental Defense, 521 Peerman Pl, Corpus
25 Christi, TX 78411
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1 MATTER OF INTEREST: Mountain Lions
2 DeDe Armentrout, Mountain Lion Foundation of Texas, 1715
3 Horton Press Road, Blanco, TX 78606
4
5 MATTER OF INTEREST: Inflows of Guadalupe River
6 Dianne Wassenich, San Marcos River Foundation, POB 1393, San
7 Marcos, TX 78667-1393
8
9 MATTER OF INTEREST: Timber Rattlesnakes
10 William Montgomery, Neighbors for Neighbors, POB 656, Elgin,
11 TX 78621
12
13 MATTER OF INTEREST: Wildlife Expo Transportation
14 John B. Miller, III, Christian Outdoor Coalition, 2801 Conti
15 St., Houston, TX 77020 (left)
16 Michelle Cook, Lost Pines State Parks, POB 177, Bastrop, TX
17 78602
18 Linda Lesso, Friends of the Lost Pines State Parks, POB 1714,
19 Bastrop, TX 78602
20
21 MATTER OF INTEREST: Equestrian
22 Peggie Kimberlin, The Trailriders Journal , 3400 Mesa Ct.,
23 Flower Mound, TX 75022
24
25
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1 MATTER OF INTEREST: Deer/Youth Hunting
2 Steve Simmons, Bastrop County Wildlife Management Assn., POB
3 183, RedRock, TX 78662
4 Jack Holman, T.O.W.M.A., 1027 CR 207, Weimer, X 78962-5252
5 Larry Vasbinder, Western and Central DeWitt County Wildlife
6 Assn., 448 Vasbinder Road, Yorktown, TX 78164
7
8 MATTER OF INTEREST: Riverbeds-Nueces & ATVs
9 Tom Goynes, Texas River Protection Assn., POB 219,
10 Martindale, TX 78655
11
12 MATTER OF INTEREST: Water Issues
13 Sparky Anderson, Clean Water Action/Texas Community Project,
14 2520 Longview St., #315, Austin, TX 78705
15 David Moldal, National Wildlife Federation, 44 East Ave.,
16 Suite 200, Austin, TX 78704
17
18 MATTER OF INTEREST: Outreach/Outdoor Programs
19 Gilbert Chavez, East Austin Male Project, 2001 Chicon,
20 Austin, TX 78704
21
22 MATTER OF INTEREST: APPRECIATION
23 Katherine Ray, 7305 San Antonio, Austin, TX 78701
24
25
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1 MATTER OF INTEREST: Private Lands and Land Acquisition
2 Janice Bezanson, Texas Committee on Natural Resources, 601
3 Westlake Dr., Austin, TX 78746
4
5 MATTER OF INTEREST: Parks
6 Kirk Cowan, LCRA, 8700 Lake Austin Blvd, Austin, TX 78734
7
8 MATTER OF INTEREST: Youth Outreach
9 L.W. Ranne, Freshwater Angler Assn., 7880 Carr St., Dallas,
10 TX 75227
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1 ANNUAL PUBLIC HEARING
2:05 p.m.
2
3 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I'm going to announce the
4 executive session is closed. We are reconvening our open
5 meeting for the purposes of the annual public meeting.
6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Madame Chairman and
7 Members and ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the annual public
8 meeting of Texas Parks and Wildlife. This an opportunity for
9 all of the citizens whom we serve in Texas to come before our
10 Commission and express your views on any subject that is
11 relevant to the business of this Commission.
12 As all of you know, the chairman is in charge
13 of the meeting and I will be assisting her as the sergeant as
14 arms, as always. I want to call your attention and remind you
15 of the fact that out in the front we have sign-up cards for
16 everyone who wishes to speak. Chairman Idsal will call names
17 from those cards one at a time. Each person will be allowed
18 to speak from the podium here before me and when your name is
19 called, please come forward, state your name and who you
20 represent if it's someone or institution other than yourself.
21 If you -- the chairman will also tend to call
22 the next person in line and so when your name is called, come
23 to the back of the room and just stand before the screen, then
24 that will allow things to move along a little bit quicker.
25 Each of you will have three minutes to address the Commission
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1 and I'll keep track of the time using this traffic clock here
2 and notify you when your three minutes are up. Please
3 conclude your remarks when your time is up so that others may
4 speak.
5 If a commissioner asks you a question or makes
6 some comments, then that will not be counted against you or if
7 the Commissioners talk among themselves, that won't count
8 against you. So the thing that I think is most important is
9 that we ask you not to be argumentative or critical of others.
10 In fact, I will not tolerate that kind of behavior here. I
11 want you to show proper respect for the Commissioners and our
12 staff, and I know that you will. If you have anything that
13 you would like to present to the Commission, then you can give
14 it to Ms. Estrada here on my right and she will distribute it.
15 Madame Chairman, I would like to call
16 everyone's attention to fact and welcome Commissioner Donato
17 Ramos to our meeting for the first time today.
18 (Applause.)
19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: I would like to
20 welcome the newest member of our senior management team
21 Mr. Jim Steinbaugh, who is the chief of law enforcement after
22 a long and distinguished career in the federal service Jim is
23 here.
24 (Applause.)
25 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: And I want to
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1 announce that it is Lydia Saldana's birthday. Happy birthday
2 Lydia.
3 (Applause.)
4 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: And tell you that
5 it is our great pleasure to have among a number of
6 distinguished guests today my colleague Ms. Nancy Kaufman who
7 is the regional director the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
8 from Albuquerque.
9 Thank you, Madame Chairman.
10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Our first speaker is Trey
11 Powers with the Texas Department of Agriculture and I'm
12 already having trouble with the -- Jefferson, is that it?
13 MR. JEFFERSON: Yes, ma'am.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Mr. Jefferson,
15 could you get ready.
16 MR. POWERS: Good afternoon. My name is Trey
17 Powers, I'm the director of legislative affairs for the Texas
18 Department of Agriculture and I want to thank you, Madame
19 Chairman and members of the Commission for allowing me to
20 speak today on behalf of Texas Department of Agriculture.
21 What I do have for you is a -- a letter from
22 Commissioner Combs to the Commission that I would like to read
23 on behalf of her, if that's okay. And that will -- those will
24 be my comments and I would be happy to answer any questions
25 afterwards if you should have them.
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1 "Dear Madame Chairman, I would like to thank
2 the commission for taking the time to address the problem of
3 vehicle traffic within the beds and banks of Texas rivers.
4 Along with landowners and agriculture associations, I worked
5 with lawmakers this past session to grant river authorities
6 the specific authority to adopt and enforce rules to protect
7 the natural condition of state-owned water courses against
8 disturbance by limiting or prohibiting vehicular access and
9 use. Unfortunately legislation was not passed and the
10 degradation of our rivers continues. While landowners and
11 agriculturists need continued access to cross rivers in their
12 normal agricultural activities, recreational four-wheeling
13 within the river bed should be regulated or banded where
14 appropriate. As you're all aware our pristine rivers are much
15 too valuable to allow their destruction in the name of
16 recreation. I encourage the Commission to examine any and all
17 possibilities to address this issue. Please know that I'm
18 willing to assist in any way that I can." It's signed
19 Commissioner Susan Combs.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Do we have any
21 comments? Please send the Commissioner our regards and thank
22 you very much.
23 MR. POWERS: I surely will. Thank you again
24 for having me.
25 MR. JEFFERSON: Good afternoon, Madame
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1 Chairman, members of the Commission. I apologize for my
2 handwriting. I guess I should have been a doctor. I'm John
3 Jefferson and I'm executive director of the Texas Chapter of
4 the Wildlife Society. And we're here this afternoon to
5 maintain our tradition of presenting a copy of Sam County
6 Almanac to the three incoming commissioners.
7 Former Chairman Lee Bass referred to this as
8 the proverbial one book he would want to take with him if he
9 was shipwrecked on a desert island. We certainly wish you no
10 shipwrecks and hope you enjoy the book. With me to make the
11 presentation is Dr. Scott Henke distinguished professor of
12 wildlife at the Caesar-Kleberg Wildlife Institute in
13 Kingsville. Dr. Henke has been involved in predator/prey
14 research and in animal diseases. He's done research in Africa
15 and in a number of states and Mr. Sansom he holds a doctorate
16 and a Master's from Texas Tech University. Dr. Henke.
17 DR. HENKE: Madame Commissioner and
18 Commissioners, I thank you very much for letting me come to
19 you today to speak and allowing me to be here today. On
20 behalf of the Texas chapter it is a professional organization
21 of wildlife professionals. Our main vision is to try to
22 maintain the diversity and to sustain the diversity of
23 wildlife in Texas. And in doing so our main mission is to try
24 to become the acknowledged source of information of wildlife
25 biology in the State of Texas.
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1 As Mr. Jefferson has said we have the book, the
2 Sam County Almanac for you. It's written by Aldo Leopold who
3 is considered the father of wildlife management. And it's a
4 philosophy even though the book is approximately 50 years old,
5 I think a lot of the land ethics that you'll see in that book
6 are still pertinent today and I hope you enjoy the book.
7 Also please on behalf of the Texas chapter at
8 any time you have any questions or such about wildlife biology
9 or such, please feel free to call upon the Texas chapter as
10 your source of information. We welcome any type of comments
11 or such or questions that you would have at any time
12 throughout your term as Commissioners.
13 Thank you very much.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. I have David
15 Langford and then I have Monica Lamb.
16 MR. LANGFORD: Thank you, Madame Chairman,
17 members of the Commission. I'm David Langford, Texas wildlife
18 Association. I would like to once again, as I do every year,
19 number one congratulate Mr. Sansom and wish him a happy
20 anniversary, 11 years.
21 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, sir.
22 MR. LANGFORD: And also to talk about the
23 programs that were not in existence 11 years ago in 1990 with
24 which we have worked very closely with this department to put
25 together, along with many others.
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1 The Texas Big Game awards program didn't exist
2 in 1990. This is our tenth anniversary year and is finally
3 where everybody wanted it to be a long time ago. The growth
4 is unbelievable and the excitement is -- is really something
5 that we've all been wanting for --
6 The Texas Youth Hunting Program. We have -- we
7 are -- have been so successful in the Texas Youth Hunting
8 Program that we are moving into Phase 2. We have perfected
9 the model about taking kids hunting ourselves and we're
10 beginning the -- the outreach program to show other
11 conservation groups, we have some partnerships with the
12 National Wild Turkey Federation, Dallas Safari Club. Austin
13 Woods and Waters, the Sportsman Club of Fort Worth and others
14 where we're beginning to show them how to do mentor
15 educational conservation-oriented youth hunts.
16 The youth only hunting weekends didn't exist.
17 Landowner incentive plan. The landowner incentive plan came
18 from a -- a weekend at Commissioner Fitzsimons' ranch four or
19 five, six, seven, eight years ago with then Lieutenant
20 Governor Bob Bullock. Commissioner Fitzsimons and a few
21 others in the room on the telephone with Andy Sansom on a
22 Saturday at his house while we tried to figure out what to do
23 with endangered species money. Lone Star Land Stewards
24 Program. Proposition 11 didn't exist in 1990. Expo didn't
25 exist. Private Lands Advisory Committee. Hunting Advisory
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1 Committee. Kid Fish. We talked today about the Texas Land
2 Trust Council. Last night's Lone Star Legends, Birding
3 Classic, World Birding Center. Liability cap on landowners
4 providing recreational access. Increased penalties for
5 poaching and the implementation of civil restitution that
6 actually hurts.
7 And you want the personification of somebody
8 you do not want on your trail, it's Jim Steinbaugh. Technical
9 guidance has grown tenfold since 1990, had about a million
10 acres enrolled in technical guidance, got over 12 and a half
11 last year probably 15 this year. Confidentiality statute.
12 Well, a lot more field days and education events at Parks and
13 Wildlife. They've increased tenfold. Public hunts, managed
14 lands and deer permits, all this has been put together with
15 the cooperative spirit that you-all have led and your
16 predecessors have led between the stewards of private land and
17 this agency.
18 We still got other issues to work on. Trey
19 Powers and Commissioner Combs mentioned one. There will be
20 other people come up here and talk about that. We'll need to
21 work on those issues and look forward to doing that.
22 Thank you very much.
23 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, David.
24 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: May I say something here? You
25 can come on up. Come on up. Monica Lamb who is speaking now
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1 is a retired Houston Comet and working through her foundation,
2 the Monica Lamb Wellness Foundation, is hosting a rally in
3 Houston that will raise awareness about expo and we appreciate
4 your help.
5 MS. LAMB: Thank you. Good afternoon,
6 Commissioners. Shoot, you messed up my introduction now. I
7 thank you -- first of all, thank you so very much for the
8 opportunity come and visit with you today and share some of
9 our -- some of our mission as a wellness foundation. Indeed
10 I'm from the City of Houston and my father is from East Texas
11 and he -- he always was an incredible outdoorsman and hunted
12 even though he killed bambi. But -- I will never forget that.
13 So I've grown up in Houston and been a Texan and I'm ashamed
14 to say that I really got familiar with outdoors and wildlife
15 while in Europe.
16 I played a number of years in Italy before
17 coming back to be a part of the Houston Comets team and it
18 was -- it was amazing that every year we would do our
19 preseason training away and we would go off to camp either in
20 Belgium or Northern Italy or someplace and we'd go and we'd
21 have training camp in these places and I was thinking this is
22 just absolutely wonderful and we would do outdoors, you know,
23 we would play some basketball to get in shape. But for the
24 most part we would do fishing and hiking and those kinds of
25 things. And I thought, man, I am from Texas and we have the
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1 most beautiful state, you know, there and, you know, I'm
2 just -- I'm ashamed to say that I just have grown up unaware
3 and uneducated of the Texas Parks and Wildlife community.
4 Well, my wellness foundation promotes health
5 and wellness for women and children. And coming from Houston
6 where we have the highest rates of obesity in children that
7 are in the least well states of all the States in America,
8 it's just -- and other major cities across the country, it's
9 just amazing and I think -- I think that what's missing from
10 that equation is that we just don't get outdoors and we don't
11 encourage our children to be active and fit and well enough
12 and so through our collaboration with the Texas Parks and
13 Wildlife we are working to bring that situation to an end, to
14 assist children in -- all children especially inner city
15 children to afford them the opportunity and the -- and the
16 education and the awareness to get out and be active and be
17 fit and have a good time in the great outdoors of Texas.
18 On September 15th we will host a pre-Expo rally
19 in the MacGregor Park area. I certainly would like to invite
20 all of you if you are the Houston area to come out and join
21 us. We will be there along with the mayor and the City of
22 Houston parks and recreation is partnering with us to put the
23 event on. We are expecting about 2,500 to 3,000 children to
24 come out and be a part of that. We will have some wonderful
25 events, kayaking, which is where Texas Parks and Wildlife come
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1 actually come out and build a lake and that in itself will be
2 a big huge event for -- for -- for some children that may not
3 have ever had the opportunity to do those kinds of outdoor
4 things.
5 We will bait casting and net casting, and so we
6 will have a great day in MacGregor Park in Houston on
7 September 15th. We will be there all day from 10:00 until
8 5:00 and that is just a rally for the October event the expo
9 here in Austin. We will bring bus loads of children as many
10 as will register, we will bring them here to be a part of the
11 day in October. So thank you for welcoming us. We look
12 forward to our collaboration with you. And thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you so much for helping
14 us in an area that we need to work harder on. And helping
15 touch children, our future customers, and teaching them what
16 they have here in this wonderful State. Thank you.
17 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Madame Chairman, I'd just
18 like to thank Ms. Lamb from, not only for being here but for
19 volunteering to work with local and regional parks and
20 wildlife people in Houston to assist not only in expo but in
21 getting the kids from the Houston area involved in parks and
22 wildlife programs. I dare say, Ms. Lamb, that you are not
23 alone. Most young people in Houston particularly in inner
24 city Houston are totally unfamiliar with the parks and
25 wildlife and its programs. And to the extent that you can
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1 assist us there, know that your efforts are appreciated and
2 I'm looking forward to getting with you in the future to
3 discuss this in much greater detail even and nothing pleases
4 me more than to hear that bus loads of kids are coming from
5 Houston. And I'm very hopeful that they'll come from Dallas
6 and as chairman of expo of other urban areas from around the
7 State. We're working to try to assure that that will happen.
8 So thank you very much.
9 MS. LAMB: Thank you.
10 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you,
11 Ms. Lamb.
12 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Jeannie Dullnig and Allen
13 Mize.
14 MS. DULLNIG: Thank you for having us today.
15 I'm Jeannie Dullnig and this is Johnny Dooley and we're here
16 on behalf of the Stewards of the Nueces and we are extremely
17 concerned about the health of the Nueces River system. Thank
18 you. Okay. In its natural state the Nueces River is a
19 beautiful pristine clear water resource for the people of
20 Texas to enjoy for swimming, fishing, canoeing, birding and
21 other nondestructive uses. But there's an incompatible form
22 of recreation that's going on in this river that's threatening
23 to destroy it. And this is vehicular traffic. We're talking
24 about four by four off road vehicles as well as all-terrain
25 vehicles. This photograph was taken this past July and there
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1 were 40 vehicles in this group. But some four by four events
2 have hosted over 100 vehicles in one group in this same river.
3 You'll notice along the edge here, these
4 vehicles traveling along the water's edge, this is where the
5 native fish spawn. This destroys the fish beds and could
6 eventually kill out the fishery. Other vehicles choose to
7 drive further into the water as this vehicle has. It's
8 submerged up to its headlights. You can barely see. This is
9 not a rare occurrence. We have many photographs of pictures
10 emersed in the water and pollution occurs as you know when
11 engine fluids antifreeze, oil, and gasoline flow into the
12 river from these vehicles that have emersed themselves.
13 Along the edges of the photograph you'll notice
14 some native pecan trees. This is where turkeys have roosted
15 for generations but the vehicles travel after dark, some all
16 night long. This disrupts the roosting habits of the turkey,
17 not to mention the other wildlife's natural use of the river.
18 A major concern of ours is that now we're
19 seeing 100 vehicles in this river system. If this is allowed
20 to continue in five or ten years from now we could see 500
21 maybe even 1,000. This river and its fragile ecosystem can't
22 defend itself against this type of activity. We are already
23 seeing a negative impact from this usage in the declining fish
24 population and loss of vegetation.
25 This is strictly a resource issue. It's not
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1 about keeping the public from using the river, but is it about
2 what is the best use of this resource for the most people with
3 the least amount of damage. So we're asking Texas Parks and
4 Wildlife to preserve and protect this precious resource for
5 future generations by banning vehicles in the rivers before
6 it's too late. We appreciate you letting us be here. Thank
7 you very much.
8 MR. MIZE: Commission, thank you also for
9 allowing us to speak to you today. I'm Allen Mize, also a
10 member of the Stewards of the Nueces and over the years like
11 Jeannie described we've seen a continued abuse of the river.
12 We've been property owners on the Nueces River
13 since 1968 and I grew up -- I grew up going down to the river,
14 I learned how to swim there. My father taught me how to fish
15 there. And I remember going down as a young boy and in the
16 early '70s and seeing schools of catfish and schools of bass
17 common. And over the years I think as the ATV craze has kind
18 of taken off, people have lost sense of purpose of a
19 four-wheel drive vehicle and they see it as a form of
20 recreation to time themselves and run from one crossing to the
21 next. My wife overheard a conversation in Uvalde of a group
22 of four-wheel drive people that were talking about actually
23 having contests timing -- traveling from one crossing to the
24 next in the upper Nueces basin and, you know, how long it
25 would take them to get to the other end. And, you know, it's
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1 just -- that's something I've seen a real -- a real lack of
2 respect for in the river bottom.
3 We bought our property as a piece -- as a --
4 because we enjoy the Nueces it's five acres. We consider
5 ourselves recreationalists, not necessarily ranchers and
6 farmers in that area and, you know, as a former recreation we
7 came there but we -- we respect the river enough not to run up
8 and down it in a four-wheel drive vehicle and destroy it.
9 We're not sure what to do about the situation. Mr. Mims, Con
10 Mims had a forum in our area and it became very clear at that
11 forum that there's a lack of understanding of the -- some of
12 the people that are four-wheeling in the river that they
13 really don't understand that they're destroying a habitat and
14 an ecosystem and that's there's an ecology in that -- in that
15 river basin.
16 So I think our challenge is great and I'm
17 not -- I'm not really sure what the answer is but we're here
18 to bring it to your attention and offer any kind of help we
19 can in some sort of regulation in the river.
20 Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you.
22 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Madame Chairman, I
23 would just like to note for the record, just remind the
24 audience that there will be a full briefing on this issue in
25 tomorrow's Commission meeting.
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Carl Seyffert and
2 Robert Dullnig.
3 MR. SEYFFERT: Thank you, Madame Chairman. My
4 name is Carl Seyffert and I live about 25 miles north of
5 Uvalde on the Nueces River and have lived there for about
6 seven years now. When I first moved in there, as Mr. Mize has
7 said, I'm also a member of the Stewards of the Nueces River.
8 We could see schools of fish from the bank, catfish, bass,
9 whatever. Now we're lucky to just to see a small sunfish.
10 I -- I have seen four-wheel drive vehicles driving through the
11 river and passing right over and through the fish beds. Just
12 this past July 4th, two days before it, a vehicle went by so
13 fast I couldn't get down there in time to see it, but I found
14 its tracks and it went right through several fish beds.
15 A lot of what I'm saying is probably already
16 been covered and be covered in later conversations. But at
17 the forum in September that was done in Uvalde, I understand
18 that I -- I heard something about the Texas Parks and Wildlife
19 buying property for these four-wheel drive vehicles. I would
20 like to know more about it if this is true and being done by
21 use of our tax money. And who will have control over it.
22 Thank you, Madame.
23 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Con Mims, could
24 you get ready. Robert Dullnig.
25 MR. DULLNIG: I'll pass.
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Okay. Then Con Mims and
2 Charles Draper.
3 MR. MIMS: Madame Chair, Members, Mr. Sansom.
4 My name is Con Mims and I'm the executive director of the
5 Nueces River Authority. Our service area includes all or
6 parts of 22 counties covering nearly 17,000 square miles of
7 South Texas and substantially all of the drainage area of the
8 Nueces River.
9 The Upper Nueces Basin has long been noted for
10 the pristine beauty of its rivers. Today the beauty and
11 integrity of those rivers is either being destroyed or are at
12 immediate risk of being destroyed by extensive recreational
13 off-road vehicle activities occurring within the river beds.
14 Such activities are not only environmentally destructive as
15 has been documented by Parks and Wildlife experts, but also
16 are incompatible with traditional public uses. Such
17 activities would not be allowed in a State park. To protect
18 these riverbeds, the Nueces River Authority is seeking rule
19 making and enforcement authority from the Texas Legislature.
20 But it is obvious that the rivers will suffer considerable
21 additional damage in the time it will take to acquire this
22 authority if it is acquired at all.
23 And, therefore, it is important for our
24 governmental agency with existing rule making authority and
25 responsibility for the resource, such as Parks and Wildlife,
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1 to stop the public abuse of these state-owned rivers. I
2 respectfully urge the Commission, if it can, to impose an
3 immediate moratorium on recreational use of off-road vehicle
4 within the state-owned riverbeds of the Upper Nueces Basin for
5 a period of at least five years to avert further damage to the
6 resource.
7 I propose that during this moratorium Parks and
8 Wildlife, Nueces River Authority and other commit to working
9 together to seek a long-term solution to this problem. As
10 part of this effort I respectfully urge the Commission to
11 consider funding a comprehensive study of the Nueces River to
12 one, establish background environmental data; two, to identify
13 segments damaged by off-road vehicle use and other abusive
14 public activities and to identify segments at risk of damage
15 and, three, to offer a plan for recovery of damaged segments
16 and protection of at risk segments.
17 One way to accomplish all of this could be by
18 Parks and Wildlife designating the Upper Nueces River from
19 approximately Highway 57 upstream to the river's headwaters as
20 a scientific area. The regulatory actions and studies could
21 possibly be accomplished under this designation. The Nueces
22 River Authority appreciates your consideration of these
23 comments and is ready to assist you in any way we can.
24 Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Mr. Draper.
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1 MR. DRAPER: Yes.
2 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: And Mr. Teague, could you get
3 ready.
4 MR. DRAPER: Good afternoon, Commissioner and
5 members of the Commission. I'm really here as a show of
6 support for the Stewards of the Nueces River Authority of the
7 Nueces River and concerned citizens about the ecological
8 damage that's going on in the existing river basin.
9 I am a property owner on the river basin and
10 have witnessed the destruction that these four-wheel drive
11 vehicles are doing as weekend traffic in the rivers. I -- we
12 have photographic evidence. We have, you know, environmental
13 studies which I'm sure that you-all have time to review
14 tomorrow. So for the sake of not being redundant I'm really
15 here to show an expression of the landowners and the support
16 of the impact that is really happening out there.
17 One of our concerns is there is ample
18 disinformation that's being disseminated by a lot of the
19 general public in the area that represents that these are
20 private landowners that are trying to preclude people having
21 access to the rivers. That is not the intent of the
22 landowners at all. We are interested in kayakers or canoers
23 or rafters or people fishing. The only thing we are really
24 trying to restrict is the access of, you know, ATV vehicles
25 and four-wheel drive vehicles that are really doing ecological
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1 damage to the -- to the river. So I would just like to say
2 I'm here in support of the landowners and I appreciate
3 you-all's consideration on this important issue.
4 Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Teague and then
6 Mr. Wallace.
7 MR. TEAGUE: Ladies and gentlemen of the board,
8 I am John Earl Teague third generation resident of Real and
9 Uvalde County, and a conservationist for future generations.
10 While living on the Nueces River I have enjoyed swimming and
11 boating and fishing in its waters. Over the recent years I
12 have witnessed drastic increase in litter and damages caused
13 by motor vehicles.
14 Late spring and early summer when the bass and
15 the panfish are spawning our river is becoming a thoroughfare
16 for four by fours. They drive in the shallow water, destroy
17 the fish nests, stir up the water which in turn the mud causes
18 asphyxiation of the eggs and at different points they cross do
19 rapids. As you'll see here, you can see the mud all the way
20 through here (indicating), and as they cross the rapids where
21 this trail is they also disturb the infamous river darter.
22 This information is also being said about the
23 that the landowners are suggesting to inhibit access to the
24 river. And I'm here to tell you that between Camp Wood and
25 Nineteen Mile there are eight different public accesses coming
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1 from Highway 55.
2 It is my plea that the Nueces River should be
3 closed to motorized vehicular traffic. I would ask this board
4 to put a moratorium on the river until an environmental impact
5 study can be made.
6 Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Wallace and then
8 Mr. Middleton.
9 MR. WALLACE: Yes. On a place called Park
10 Chalk Bluff on the Nueces River was established by my
11 grandmother in 1920. And I'm just here to tell you that
12 about, oh, maybe 30 years ago, sometime ago I was a young guy
13 and we had some kind of a similar problem where I'm from down
14 the Rio Grande Valley and we used to take our dune buggies and
15 go down to the beach and we used to love to run up and down
16 those dunes, fly over the top of them, watch people run, throw
17 trash out the side, drink beer, have a good time. Eventually
18 some governmental agency stopped us and I'm glad they did
19 because I like the beach the way it looks today. I'm asking
20 you to think about the Nueces River. It's the same situation.
21 It's not family fun. It's not going to picnics and having a
22 good time on the river, it's nothing but the testosterone
23 gasoline. That's all it is. I'm asking you to step
24 forward --
25 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I wouldn't know about that.
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1 MR. WALLACE: There's a little estrogen out
2 there as well. I'm asking you to step up to the plate and
3 protect the river for us. Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Middleton and then
5 Mr. Friday.
6 MR. MIDDLETON: Madame Chairman, members of the
7 Commission. I've been a Texan since '46 and a member of the
8 San Antonio Audubon Society since 1960. I'm president this
9 year. We are all interested in wildlife and we recognize that
10 the rivers especially in the drier parts of the State are very
11 valuable to wildlife and motorized traffic is going to be
12 damaging to the river. And it also damages our water supply
13 'cause somebody is going to drink that water sooner or later.
14 Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Ray McKnight. No. No.
16 Yeah, you're Mr. Friday and then Mr. McKnight afterwards.
17 MR. FRIDAY: While they're passing out those
18 papers, my name is Wright Friday. I appreciate you-all taking
19 time to listen to me. I ranch on the Nueces River up there.
20 We've got about a couple of miles that we have there now and I
21 lease other land along the river and we live there on the
22 ranch. We still raise Angora goats if that will tell you how
23 far back we are, you know, but any case the picture there I
24 wanted you-all to look at is along part of the stretch of the
25 river that is in front of the ranch. And one thing that
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1 happened that really would -- really disturbed me greatly was
2 that the four-wheel drive vehicles began to come along our
3 side of the river and started a road along there. And then we
4 began to have some of the big floods and I, you know, didn't
5 really think about the road. We had tried through the
6 years -- we've been there since -- for 100 years, the family
7 has on the river and I've been there -- I'm 59 now and was
8 raised on the ranch. So we've been there a long time.
9 And -- but it started a road and we always let
10 folks come along and enjoy the river. But when these
11 four-wheel drive vehicles began to come along they started a
12 road on our side of the river and then these floods came along
13 and they cut -- and the floods went right down the bank where
14 that road was and went right down the roads and they cut off
15 way back into the country there and they must have moved --
16 I'm talking just tons and tons of gravel and sand changed the
17 whole direction of the river because it cut right down that
18 old the roadbed they had formed along the bank. And now that
19 bank is just -- it's just a sand and gravel bank. And I was
20 down there looking at it again, you know, absolutely if you
21 want -- with me trying to put it in the words that you-all
22 would -- very distressed with the fact that they had cut that,
23 you know, that much bank along there and the destruction they
24 had caused.
25 Over against the other bank where the
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1 historical flow for the river was, there used to be real deep
2 holes with water, you know, and people swam there along what
3 was called Old Camp Mishamokwa. But now the river is against
4 my bank and about there's about a -- there's a bank as high as
5 this ceiling there and it's -- it's going to go ahead now
6 since they formed that road and we tried to keep them out, but
7 they would come up out like they're saying at night and
8 different times of day and we're not on the river all the time
9 although we live there on the ranch. But it's going to cut
10 around now and go down and change the whole course of the
11 river just because they were coming up that river in these
12 four-wheel drive vehicles.
13 I know people have talked about the destruction
14 of the riverbed. There was one other incident that I thought
15 was, you know, really distressing to me. They -- off of the
16 top there you could see a big wide area in the river there
17 where there were just solid perch beds. And, you know, even
18 as a --
19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, sir.
20 MR. FRIDAY: -- as on older guy --
21 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, sir,
22 your time is up.
23 MR. FRIDAY: Thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Mr. McKnight and
25 Mr. Raynice, is that right? Shudde, you be ready.
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1 MS. SHUDDE: I'll pass.
2 MR. McKNIGHT: Thank you, Madame Chairman.
3 Members of the Commission, my name is Roy McKnight I live on
4 the river up above the Uvalde County Lake. A place they call
5 the Crossing because I can see all game animals and birds and
6 everything that frequent that area. The first thing I think
7 that -- that is the important thing is that the fracturing
8 that's going on in this State is inevitable, it's going to
9 happen. Like somebody said the other day, somebody has
10 discovered the canyons.
11 We're the last one of these river systems the
12 Guadalupe went, the Comal, the Llano, now we're hearing -- and
13 the Frio and now we're here to live and hopefully enjoy it.
14 We have birding. We have fishing. We have wildlife. We have
15 exotics. We hate to see these things go downhill. The
16 demographics of the State is rapidly becoming where we're
17 moving out and the cities are becoming larger. And as a
18 result there are ways of recreation is becoming more and more
19 like they want to get out on a weekend and I don't blame them.
20 I used to live in Beaumont. Did I say that right or wrong?
21 But truthfully, the river is going to have to
22 be addressed by some -- like somebody said this Texas Supreme
23 Court has said and is on record as saying the water in the
24 river systems are a mess in Texas. Now, I hope and
25 respectfully suggest that if you have the authority to do
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1 something about this that we will have it happen. Thank you
2 very much.
3 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Raynice, is it
4 Shudde?
5 MS. SHUDDE: Yes. Shudde. I pass.
6 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Okay. John Shudde. And Seth
7 Davidson.
8 MR. SHUDDE: Thank you for the opportunity to
9 speak before you. I want to commend each of you for your
10 interest in our parks and wildlife. I have never been to a
11 meeting like this today and I'm a really impressed. I see
12 some concerned people and we appreciate that. I didn't write
13 anything today because I am a physician you couldn't read it
14 anyway.
15 We've been involved in the Nueces River, lived
16 on the ranch land, operated a sheep operation. My wife thinks
17 it runs me. But we've seen a decline in the environment and I
18 had the opportunity to watch my grandchildren and watch them
19 fish, I watched them swim. And I can remember back when we
20 were honeymooning in 1955 on the Nueces River and we would go
21 fly fishing and catch some bass. My grandchildren don't catch
22 any fish right now. Thank you for your time. We appreciate
23 the opportunity to speak to you and we're very confident that
24 you-all have our interest at best in the state. Appreciate
25 your time.
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Seth Davidson and then Tom
2 Taylor.
3 MR. DAVIDSON: Thank you all very much for the
4 opportunity to come here and address this group about the
5 Nueces River. I would like to say first of all that we're
6 very privileged here in Texas to have what I consider to be
7 the finest state wildlife agency in the United States. I work
8 for a nature tourism consulting firm here in Austin --
9 Fermata, Incorporated and we travel all over the United States
10 and the world and I can say that the programs and that the
11 aggressive conservation and that the positive balance of
12 multiple use that this agency promotes has become a model
13 nationwide on a number of very important projects. That
14 things that have we been begun here in Texas by you are now
15 being imitated not only in other states in this country but
16 also around the world.
17 And as a leader in -- in wildlife conservation
18 and as a leader in economic development, I believe that the
19 issue in the Nueces River is a critical one for all of us.
20 And I ask you to consider that market surveys shows that ATVs
21 will increase 23 percent per year. It's not an issue that's
22 going to go away. The problem that we have right now in the
23 Nueces River is guaranteed to expand to virtually every other
24 waterway in the State of Texas. It's guaranteed to ex -- it's
25 guaranteed to expand with amphibious vehicles which are now
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1 being designed and are now being test marketed, vehicles that
2 can go completely underwater and that will be able to do their
3 thing in any body of water in the State regardless of its
4 sensitivity.
5 I believe that the Nueces River to date has
6 been a victim of a paralysis on all of our parks, an inability
7 for us to stand up and say we're not against ATVs and we're
8 not against four-wheel drive use, those are all legitimate
9 uses and those people are all members of the public who have a
10 right to access our public lands. It's not an us against them
11 issue, it's an issue of what is the best way to make sure that
12 these lands that the wildlife that depend on them benefit.
13 Finally, I would like to say that Texas Parks
14 and Wildlife has done an exemplary job of using its resources
15 as a way to stimulate economic development in this State.
16 That local communities and the State itself and Texas Parks
17 and Wildlife has spent millions of dollars trying to develop
18 economic basis for nature based tourism for communities that
19 don't have access to traditional large scale industrial
20 development. If we are to give these communities a chance to
21 develop economically then we must also protect the resources
22 that this type of nature tourism is based upon.
23 I commend the commission, I commend Texas Parks
24 and Wildlife for the work that they have done and I hope that
25 we will be able to move forward to resolve this crucial issue
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1 for the future of our Texas waterways.
2 Thank you very much.
3 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Tom Taylor and Don Friend to
4 be ready.
5 MR. TAYLOR: Good afternoon. My name is Tom
6 Taylor and my wife and I have a retreat center that's in
7 Barksdale. We're not on the river, we're about four miles
8 from the river. But I'm a great believer in public access to
9 rivers. I have floated that river. I have hiked that river.
10 I have fished on that river. I've looked for breeding birds
11 on that river. I love going on that river, but over the last
12 ten years I have watched, as a lot of people have, the
13 degradation of that river mainly because of the big floods
14 we've had down there but there's no way for that river to
15 recover if the ATVs and four-wheel drives are allowed to go
16 unfettered up and down that river.
17 And it seems to me that if the point of your
18 being on that river is to enjoy the natural surroundings that
19 it provides, there's nothing that you can do in a four-wheel
20 drive vehicle that you can't do on foot. And so the main
21 thing is you can preserve the access and at the same time
22 preserve the river. And I would just urge you to consider
23 removing the four-wheel drive vehicles and ATVs from the
24 riverbed where they really don't belong in my opinion. Thank
25 you.
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1 MR. FRIEND: I pass.
2 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Janice Trevino and Kilpatrick.
3 MS. TREVINO: I thank you. My name is Janice
4 Trevino. I'm also here hopefully the preservation of the
5 Nueces River. My parents own a land a piece of land close to
6 Park Chalk Bluff and I've been visiting that land for 24 years
7 now. And I have -- in all the years that we've been there
8 it's always been a little piece of paradise for me. There was
9 no phone, no TV, no nothing but just the river. And I don't
10 understand why people have to think that have to drive along
11 the river to enjoy it. That's my first point.
12 Second, all the visitors that we've had up to
13 our cabin have always come back with two words of consensus,
14 beautiful and peaceful. ATVs have taken those and changed
15 them. Now people are scared to go up there. For one thing my
16 dog was almost run over by an ATV. I just -- the people are
17 drunk. They manage to somehow climb up these walls with one
18 hand and not spill their beer, but they can't see the two-year
19 old in front of them. I don't have any scientific data, I
20 only have a heart-felt plea that we can do something to stop
21 is this ATV traffic.
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: H.W. Kilpatrick. And Allan
24 Bloxsom, could you be ready.
25 DR. KILPATRICK: I'm sorry, I thought you asked
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1 for me.
2 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: It's your turn.
3 DR. KILPATRICK: Ladies and gentlemen, I'm
4 Dr. Kilpatrick, landowner. And the people who speak as
5 naturalists concerning wildlife, I hardly see how they have
6 time because I pick up dozens and dozens of dirty diapers. I
7 pick up cases and cases of empty beer and dozens and dozens of
8 used condoms. I hardly see how they have time between these
9 exercises to look at the wildlife. Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Sheri Rutledge, could you get
11 read.
12 MR. BLOXSOM: Chairman and Commissioners thank
13 you and I'm sure you-all have heard a ear of this already, but
14 I'm just going to kind of summarize some of what the other
15 speakers have been so kindly to say.
16 I'm a oil and gas operator in the State of
17 Texas, of all things, living in Uvalde. It's funny that I am
18 hand and in hand with every environmentalist in the state
19 regarding this subject of the destruction of the Nueces River
20 ecosystem. We really are faced with the destruction of very,
21 very unique ecosystem. The continued use of ATVs and
22 four-wheel drive vehicles up and down it are destroying it.
23 It's clear. I have some pictures here that I would like to be
24 passed around to each of the Commissioners. When she gets a
25 minute.
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1 The habitat and wildlife and aquatic life of
2 the Nueces and distributaries as you have heard is being
3 destroyed is strictly due almost entirely to the motorized
4 vehicle use. Some is also being -- which has not been brought
5 out is the County of Uvalde's consistent change of the course
6 of the river due to their county crossings. They are
7 literally altering the course of the natural flow of the river
8 which I hope that one of your studies will take a strong look
9 at. It has been the County of Uvalde's policy to use gravel,
10 alter the course of the river in which to put their crossings
11 in and their flumes.
12 I also believe one of the other biggest
13 problems is an enforcement gap that these vehicles are not
14 being ticketed. There is only one law on the books for the
15 Texas Parks and Wildlife to use or any other state agency to
16 use which is the destruction or removal of sand, gravel, and
17 marl. It's a Class C misdemeanor. It is a very gray area and
18 whether these ruts are disturbance has never been verified by
19 the state attorney general's office.
20 I request and respectfully so ask for a
21 temporary ban on these vehicles until further studies, which
22 I'm sure will show these vehicles lead to the destruction of
23 wildlife habitat and aquatic life. The destruction of this
24 area and wetlands which is under federal jurisdiction also is
25 a question I hope you will address and will intercede before
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1 the federal level can come down and burden us with other
2 regulatory problems.
3 Thank you very much.
4 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Sheri Rutledge and then
5 Douglas Evans.
6 MS. RUTLEDGE: Good afternoon. My name is
7 Sheri Rutledge and I am the executive director for Texas Hill
8 Country River Region in Uvalde County. We are basically the
9 tourist bureau for Uvalde County. We were formed three years
10 ago and we are made up of 44 accommodations along all five
11 rivers in Uvalde County and throughout the county itself.
12 They -- how we are funded and to promote tourism is through
13 the hotel occupancy tax dollars. And right now we're about at
14 a $200,000 budget each year to do so. The main area that we
15 have focused on to promote Uvalde County and promote positive
16 economic development is in the area of nature tourism. We are
17 thrilled to have 17 private properties represented on the new
18 Texas Parks and Wildlife nature trail that will be opened up
19 in this area starting in January of 2002.
20 At first I thought we might be lucky to have
21 five or six people interested, but I was amazed at the support
22 and interest from landowners in the county who believe what
23 Texas Parks and Wildlife is doing to promote conservation of
24 our natural resources and to find alternate streams for
25 revenue for their family-owned land. So this has been very
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1 positive for economic development in Uvalde County. We target
2 so much of our promotional material and our advertising to
3 nature tourists to visit our area. They are very familiar
4 with the black-capped vireo and the golden-cheeked warbler.
5 They're familiar with that during the springtime. We're
6 trying to highlight all the other things that there are to do
7 with nature tourism in Uvalde County during other times of the
8 year.
9 With those five clean rivers in Uvalde County,
10 we feel like this just fits exactly with protecting our river
11 from vehicular traffic and promoting conservation and to
12 highlight our natural beauty for generations of Uvaldians to
13 enjoy and also visitors to our area.
14 On a personal note as a mother of a very active
15 three-year-old little boy who is extremely curious and a
16 six-year-old daughter, we're very fortunate to have some land
17 on the Nueces River south of the La Pryor bridge on 83.
18 Watching them, making sure that they're safe from harm is a
19 hard enough job until I have to throw in watching for traffic
20 in the middle of the river and negotiating people to go around
21 or please turn back and stop making damage into our river. My
22 six-year-old daughter wanted to know why there were river
23 tracks or vehicle tracts in the gravel bar there in our river
24 in our swimming hole. I said, well, baby, people drive down
25 there with their vehicles to come and see the river. She said
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1 but, mommy, they can't. There's no stop sign and there are no
2 policemen. Exactly.
3 Thank you for your time.
4 MR. EVANS: Madame Chair, Commission members,
5 thanks for the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is
6 Doug Evans. I am the director of parks and recreation for the
7 City of Grapevine, Texas. And I'm here on behalf of our city.
8 I'm here on behalf of the Texas Recreation Parks Society,
9 which represents 1,300 members that are in parks and
10 recreation field statewide. I'm also here representing the
11 DFW directors of parks and recreation which represents about
12 50 cities in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.
13 First I would like to commend Andy Sansom and
14 the parks and wildlife employees for this state. They do a
15 wonderful job for our state park systems. I'm here to commend
16 them on that. I'm also here today to inform you that parks
17 and recreation professionals around the State are not pleased
18 with something that happened during the 77th Legislative
19 session.
20 Legislators approved $2.4 million in grants to
21 four local park projects utilizing funds from the Texas
22 Recreation and Parks account and that is the local parks
23 grants program. These grants were approved or approved
24 without going through the grant process that we all are
25 supposed to go through for grants and we are unhappy about
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1 that. One of the projects that was approved was for operating
2 funds and this is against the guidelines for the grants
3 program and we are unhappy about that. I'm not saying that
4 these folks didn't deserve grants, I'm saying they should have
5 went through the same process that we all go through for the
6 grant 'cause it is a competitive and a fair process. I'm not
7 here to blame the Parks and Wildlife Department or the
8 Commission, I'm just here to tell you that the legislators in
9 my mind are undermining your authority to develop and manage a
10 grants program that's fair in this state.
11 Staff of the Parks and Wildlife Department did
12 an excellent job back in 1999 in restructuring our grants
13 program. Public hearings were held throughout the State, much
14 input was given to staff of the Parks and Wildlife Department
15 in developing a fair program. To have legislators tap funds
16 from this account without going through the process that we
17 feel is fair undermines and -- and sets a dangerous precedent
18 for the grants program and it will destroy the integrity of
19 the program as it is today. I can assure that during the next
20 legislative session we will address our issues with the Senate
21 Finance Committee and the House Appropriations Committee
22 letting them know that any funds that are used from that
23 account need to be done in a fair manner. And I appreciate
24 your time for letting me speak today.
25 Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Leo Perron and
2 Bill West.
3 MR. PERRON: I'm Leo Perron and my family and I
4 own land on the Llano River about halfway between the City of
5 Llano and Lake Buchanan. And you've heard a lot today about
6 the use of four wheel and recreational vehicles on the
7 riverbeds on the Nueces. We are experiencing the same thing
8 on the Llano River. In fact, I think that the word has gotten
9 out that the people on the Nueces River are going to take some
10 action, so I think with some of what has been happening on the
11 Nueces has now shifted to the Llano. I won't add to any of
12 the information you have and I apologize for giving you some
13 more handouts. I'm afraid you're going to need a wheelbarrow
14 to go home this evening.
15 But I would like to talk to you philosophically
16 about how I view this. In my business, my career is
17 commercial real estate. And we own and operate warehouse and
18 retail and industrial properties. And each of our property
19 managers has one goal foremost in their mind and that's the
20 preservation and protection of the assets under their control.
21 And I view the Commission and you-all's job as being the
22 property managers for the citizens of the State of Texas in
23 their public lands and especially the rivers. And it's your
24 job to hopefully promulgate and issue and follow-up with the
25 rules and regulations that will bring this to a halt.
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1 The people that we're seeing on the Llano are
2 not people who are out there to enjoy the scenery, enjoy the
3 wildlife or even to enjoy the river. They're out there to
4 enjoy their machinery. And what in effect has happened is we
5 have had an assault on the Llano River. The environmental
6 movement that we have witnessed that's come about in the last
7 two or three decades in the United States from coast to coast
8 has predicated on one premise and that is that nature today
9 can't withstand the urban assault we're that putting on it.
10 We have to give it some help otherwise it won't recover. I
11 hope you-all will take some action and pass something fairly
12 quickly. We are seeing now on the Llano on weekdays sometimes
13 15 and 20 vehicles and they are in the riverbeds. There is an
14 information I passed out, a photograph two wide angle shots of
15 the Llano riverbed and you can see where the granite
16 outcroppings have punched up through the sand. Unfortunately
17 those are a major attraction to four wheel vehicle people.
18 And what they do is put it in low gear and see how fast they
19 can crawl over it. And to go out there and had this land for
20 probably 60 or 65 years in our family. And to go out there
21 and look at those granite outcroppings and see tire marks
22 across the top of them where people are taking four-wheel
23 drive vehicles and spun their tires trying to crawl over them
24 is heartbreaking.
25 So together with the people from the Nueces we
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1 hope that you can address their problem effectively and we
2 thank you for your help and your attention.
3 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. West and John Gosdin.
4 MR. WEST: Madame Chairman, members of the
5 Commission, Executive Director, I am Bill West of the
6 Guadalupe Blanco River Authority and thank you for the
7 opportunity to address you here today.
8 I would like to share a few points briefly with
9 you. One of the -- and shift gears a little bit from the
10 topic at hand. One of the GBRA's major initiatives recently
11 is the development of eco or nature tourism on the Guadalupe.
12 Most people are familiar with Canyon and the recreational area
13 below Canyon, the tube shoots and Schlitterbahn. But there's
14 miles of river that are unique and desire recognition and
15 protection.
16 Parks and Wildlife have been very helpful
17 working with my staff and planning that process and we too
18 will be here asking for some financial assistance for
19 development of that program. Just a couple of projects
20 included in that are some interpretative centers. There's two
21 that are unique on the Guadalupe. One is known as Green Lake.
22 It's one of the few natural lakes in the State of Texas at the
23 end of the river system there at the bay delta. There's a
24 high point there at the lake that you can look out over the
25 lake to the north and see the lake. Off to the west look
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1 across the river delta system and then back to the south see
2 the bay and estuary system all at one point. We make a
3 tremendous interpretative center site. Another site, that of
4 Honey Creek in Comal County above Canyon Lake, again, would
5 make a great demonstration project for watershed management.
6 Texas Parks and wildlife own that tract of land. Currently
7 are in corporation with NRCS and GBRA and source protection
8 and again from a public information standpoint, a great
9 interpretive center potential. And again we hope we can work
10 on those jointly for that purpose.
11 Parallel to that is an endowment that GBRA has
12 recently implemented on the Guadalupe. And, again, we hope
13 that endowment will allow the combination of land resources to
14 work in conjunction with Parks and Wildlife. While aquatic
15 vegetation management is not a hot topic today I'm sure it
16 will be a matter of time before it comes up again. Parks and
17 Wildlife has been very supportive and very helpful and GBRA
18 certainly appreciates that assistance.
19 Another point associated with Canyon Lake
20 permit amendment. The Canyon Lake permit amendment was the
21 first permit amendment coming out of the Senate Bill 1 project
22 to reach the TNRCC for permitting purposes. We truly
23 appreciate the support that Parks and Wildlife provided us in
24 that process. Negotiations between Parks and Wildlife, TNRCC,
25 and GBRA develop instream flow releases for Canyon Reservoir
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1 that are truly a spirit of cooperation and we appreciate that.
2 A letter from the executive director to TNRCC also was greatly
3 appropriated.
4 From the policy standpoint we do have a river
5 destruction problems on the Guadalupe primarily in the Cibilo
6 Creek area, but we have that same problem. We along with the
7 Nueces River Authority tried to sponsor some legislation last
8 session but were not successful. We would very much like to
9 help and participate in that process.
10 The last point I would make relative to water
11 issues is that of instream flow and bay and estuary issues.
12 This is an issue that desires all our focus and attention and
13 we should give it proper focus.
14 Thank you.
15 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks, Mr. West.
16 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Joe Kirkpatrick could you get
17 ready.
18 MR. GOSDIN: Good afternoon, Chair Idsal,
19 members of the Commission. My name is John Gosdin. I am
20 manager of conservation services and parks at the Lower
21 Colorado River Authority but today I'm here to convey a
22 message on behalf of myself and the Texas Parks and Wildlife
23 Department's own Texas Rivers Conservation Advisory Board.
24 This is a broad board representing river users, river
25 conservationists that meet on a quarterly basis, look at
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1 variety of issues and provide recommendations back to the
2 staff and to the board. My message today is simple. We are
3 all -- we all share a common natural heritage and that being
4 our Texas rivers and streams. But as we're already hearing
5 today, we also share common problems. Many of our rivers and
6 streams are showing visible strains of combined use and our
7 sometimes inadequate stewardship.
8 We in Austin have been reading about this issue
9 with off road vehicle use, but clearly this is a problem in
10 the Nueces, Llano and Brazos Rivers as well as those here in
11 the Central Texas area. The stories that we're reading of
12 course and hearing about deal with four-wheel drive vehicles
13 using rivers and stream beds as recreational roadways. From
14 pollution from the vehicles to concerns from adjacent private
15 property owners and the impact on fishing and the natural
16 environment, there are many concerns and we have a challenge
17 of balancing the rights and interests of all the parties
18 involved. But there are more stresses to our rivers and
19 streams.
20 Even today in the Austin American Statesman
21 there were reports on the effects of nonpoint source pollution
22 on Town Lake and the Colorado River within the City of Austin.
23 The story details how trash and concerns about water quality
24 will keep the public from using the river recreationally for
25 several days or even weeks. In the course of this year you
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1 could have read dozens of similar stories from newspapers
2 across Texas. The problems with Texas rivers are statewide.
3 Many citizens may not know it and many special interest groups
4 may not want your involvement, but the citizens of the State
5 of Texas need your help and guidance.
6 Texas rivers and streams are at a cross roads
7 for many reasons. From double digit population growth with
8 its accompanying demands on the consumption of our water
9 resources to ever increasing recreational access by more and
10 ever diverse user groups we won't be able to manage our rivers
11 and streams by merely waiting or just looking the other way.
12 The citizens of Texas together with the Parks and Wildlife
13 Department, river authorities, local governments, and private
14 individuals and groups can make a difference in the future of
15 Texas rivers.
16 With TPWD stewardship we can provide that same
17 quality of life that many of us have in this room have enjoyed
18 and come to expect for future generations of Texans.
19 Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Will Kirkpatrick and David
21 Stewart.
22 MR. KIRKPATRICK: Good afternoon. My name is
23 Will Kirkpatrick and people have problem with the
24 four-wheelers we may have a solution. Deer season is opening
25 and they'll be coming to East Texas shortly. Our last general
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1 fishing license increase was six years ago and I understand
2 that you-all are looking at additional increases in the
3 future. On September of 1995 I wrote Director Sansom a letter
4 concerning license fees in Texas. Let's not raise license
5 fees for recreational anglers like mom and dad and the teenage
6 children, rather impose fees and increase fees on those of us
7 who use Texas water for monetary gain.
8 This spring ESPN the world's largest sports
9 network bought the Bass Angler Sportman's Society known as
10 BASS for unknown millions of dollars. The water from the
11 Jamison family which had bought it from Ray Scott back in '85
12 for approximately $14 million. BASS plans on coming to Texas
13 twice this year -- next year. Wal-Mart, the world's largest
14 retailer has four different fishing trails. We have the FLW,
15 Ever Start, Bass Fishing League known as the BFL and then
16 they've got one called the Texas Tournament Trail that's just
17 in the Texas alone. They have five tournaments, there's four
18 regular tournaments and then one that is a classic type.
19 While there are many small tournaments held
20 annually only a few of these qualify as for-profit status a
21 lot of them just people out fishing with their companies.
22 Some supposedly are charity events to help needy causes. I
23 would suggest that these pay a minimum of 20 percent to
24 qualify as nonprofit. A common statement from several -- now,
25 Andy has heard this of the profit tournaments is their
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1 participants buy fishing license, therefore they're entitled
2 to fish in Texas without anything else. I would have you
3 think about the Dot in the fact that the truck drivers in the
4 State of Texas all have driver's license but they pay fees to
5 use the highways because they're using them for commercial
6 endeavors. I don't think Dot would go for not getting that.
7 While there's considerable opposition to the
8 fees, it boils down to two questions. Number one, are many
9 bass tournaments money making endeavors, and number two,
10 should they pay a fee for using public waters when conducting
11 a for-profit function. Lastly, there has been a lot of debate
12 about the management and quality of freshwater fisheries and I
13 have fished in 11 states for bass and there's nothing like
14 we've got in Texas. The last 30 years it's just continued to
15 get better. And I would like to thank Parks and Wildlife,
16 Mr. Durocher and his people for that.
17 Thank you.
18 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Colleys will follow, is it
19 Scarlet Colley?
20 MR. STEWART: Madame Chairman, Commissioners,
21 Andy, my name is David Stewart. I'm president of Central
22 Texas Association of Bass Clubs. I'm also president of a
23 statewide organization called SMART. And with SMART basically
24 is a member of sportsman, conservation, health and the
25 environmental people but all of the major bass fishing
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1 organizations in the state of Texas are members of my
2 organization. And I really came up here to talk about
3 something else, but after the speaker before me talked, I
4 think I need to address tournament fishing just a little bit
5 because I do it today. We don't need fees on tournaments
6 because they bring in thousands and thousands of dollars to
7 local communities. I know, I pay them. I pay motel rooms,
8 gasoline, food, just lots and lots of money tournaments come
9 into Texas. Whether it's the national circuit or regional
10 circuit, or little local bass club that's goes from Austin,
11 Texas to Sam Rayburn for example. We spend a lot of money
12 fishing. Another thing that came up I would like to talk
13 about Mr. Ray Scott just for a second. If you don't bass fish
14 you may not know who he is. But people that bass fish know
15 who Mr. Scott is. He happens to be a personal friend of mine.
16 There's a lot of money that comes into Texas
17 each year from a federal fund called Wallop-Breaux. And
18 Mr. Scott got that bill passed personally spent months and
19 months in Washington, D.C. getting this tax put on stuff that
20 we buy and we were all for it 'cause the money goes to a good
21 cause. The first President Bush got behind it and got it
22 passed. So I don't know how many millions of dollars Texas
23 gets each year, but it's a bunch. And every state in the
24 Union gets that and Mr. Scott is the reason for that. So
25 tournament fisherman do a lot of good. We pay our own way.
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1 We believe in paying taxes on ourselves. We are the few
2 people that do that. I got a little bit more news. Fishing
3 is down in Texas. It ain't good like Mr. Kirkpatrick talked
4 about it. The last couple of years have been down. Andy and
5 I have been talking about it. We continue to talk about it.
6 I have all the admiration for this man and his staff and we're
7 working to solve some problems. So I appreciate your time.
8 Thank you.
9 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Mr. Gilleland
10 could you get ready. Two Colleys.
11 MR. COLLEY: Good afternoon. We're George and
12 Scarlet Colley of Fins to Feathers in South Padre Island. I
13 want to thank all of you and very envious of all of you. We
14 get rain every 200 days or so you guys don't seem to ever let
15 it quit here. But to kind of change the pace right here from
16 river vehicles, we're going to think about -- talk about
17 something just a little slower, the snails and slugs that we
18 have growing in shells in South Padre Island. They're being
19 taken at alarming numbers. And just to the give you a little
20 brief history of my family, I know a lot of people here in the
21 river bottoms have been here for 60 and 70 years. My parents
22 started a ferry business down on South Padre Island where they
23 would take people from Port Isabel to Padre. And then we
24 started fishing in the '50s and then in the '90s Scarlet and I
25 started Fins to Feathers, where we take people out on
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1 excursions, out on the Laguna Madre Bay where we take people
2 out to see birds as well as dolphin and dolphin encounters.
3 And what we would like to come up here to talk to you and the
4 panel about is the overcollecting of live shells.
5 Now, this is something that we've been trying
6 to maybe get at handle on locally and we have people from up
7 north our winter Texans come down kind of like locusts with
8 five-gallon buckets. And I'm going to go ahead and get off my
9 soapbox here right quick and let my rider, my wife and
10 photographer kind of do a conclusion here 'cause she won't be
11 quite as biassed as I am. My wife Scarlet Colley.
12 MS. COLLEY: Well, George and I not only are
13 eyes on the bay every day, we are out sometimes 10, 12 hours
14 on our Laguna Madre Bay. We also work with thousands of
15 school children that come to the island on field trips and
16 they want to know about the nature of South Padre Island. So
17 we show them our shells and I say guess what this is, this is
18 the Texas Lightening Welk. It's our Texas state shell and
19 they're amazed we have a state shell. They know about the
20 pecan tree, they know about the bluebonnet, the mockingbird
21 but we have a State shell. And I say now we have some
22 grandmas and grandpas that are coming down and taking these by
23 the thousands because we have no laws to protect them. But
24 why don't we have laws to protect them? And I say, well, we
25 will. We have a wonderful family called Texas Parks and
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1 Wildlife that's going to help us so they'll always be lighting
2 welks for you when you grow up and your kids so you can come
3 to the island and you can show them the Texas State shell, the
4 lightning welk. So this is our plea. It's heartfelt for
5 everybody I think in the Valley except maybe the few winter
6 Texans that are the culprits that are taking them by the
7 thousands. And literally thumbing their noses at us and
8 saying you don't have a law. We can do this.
9 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Do you know what -- why are
10 they interested in collecting them? Is there's a use for them
11 or --
12 MS. COLLEY: I call it arts and crap. Thank
13 you.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Mr. Gilleland.
15 And Jim Haire if you could be ready.
16 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis Gilleland and
17 I'm speaking for Texas Animals, which is an animal rights
18 organization on the Internet. I have a petition that I've
19 given you and it has to do with voting by the Commissioners.
20 "Whereas it is unethical if not fraudulent to
21 place your own profit and self-interest over and above the
22 welfare and needs of the public in regard to governing parks
23 and wildlife in Texas. And whereas Parks and Wildlife
24 Commissioners Armstrong, Watson, and Fitzsimons and possibly
25 others are deeply engaged in commercial profit making hunting
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1 operations on their own private ranches in Texas. And whereas
2 we have noted in the past that the aforementioned three
3 Commissioners joined by similarly situated Commissioners Bass,
4 Ryan and Heath consistently voted to enhance their own
5 profit-making hunting operations.
6 "We hereby petition that the Parks and Wildlife
7 Commissioners Armstrong, Watson, and Fitzsimons and possibly
8 others henceforth recuse themselves from all votes by the
9 Commission on all matters rules and funding related to
10 hunting, the management of whitetail deer, and the killing of
11 exotic animals held captive on high fenced can't hunt ranches
12 in Texas." Signed Ellis Gilleland for Texas Animals.
13 Thank you.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Janet Taylor, could you be
15 ready, please.
16 MR. HAIRE: I'm Jim Haire. I appreciate this
17 chance to comment on your conflict of interest that the
18 results your taking money from the alcohol industry whose
19 product you regulate on our waterways. Five years ago your
20 agency lost a safe boating campaign that addressed drinking
21 and boating. This upset your beer sponsor who became involved
22 and changed your safety program to include a Budweiser beer
23 key chain for boaters. Afterwards Mr. Sansom Commissioner
24 Heath and the Houston Chronicle said that a written policy was
25 need to avoid such problems in the future. But today five
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1 years later there's still no policy and Budweiser beer key
2 chains like this one are still being handed out to boaters at
3 your fishing events. A beer ad in your fishing regulations
4 now illustrates the fun of drinking and boating incentives to
5 just designated driver. The Coast Guard says about half the
6 boating deaths are alcohol rated so it's not surprising that
7 Texas was recently named number one in the nation in boating
8 deaths.
9 Anheuser-Busch's unusual level of influence
10 over your agency has led to other problems besides the
11 conflict of interest. Here's a photo of kids at your expo
12 being told by a beer ad that after they catch a great fish
13 they can catch a great feeling. Teenager Timmy McDaniels was
14 killed while drinking on a fishing trip to Lake Fork when he
15 and friends docked their boat one night so Timmy could dive
16 from a highway bridge. Timmy may have been looking for that
17 same great feeling advertised in your fishing regulations each
18 of the three years prior to his death.
19 With no policies to control your alcohol
20 relationship you ban kids from a potentially perfect
21 father-son event, your Gulf Coast Roundup because of the
22 alcohol sponsorship while at the same time alcohol is promoted
23 among those same kids in your expo, web pages, press releases,
24 fishing regulations, et cetera. And you choose radio beer
25 commercials to help promote such fishing events to the
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1 Hispanic market, among others.
2 The Sunset Commission sponsored a bill to end
3 your alcohol marketing efforts. The mother of a four-year-old
4 girl that was killed by a drunk fisherman in a boat crash on
5 Lake Athens was one of the many to support that bill. But
6 here's a letter from your files that documents the
7 collaboration between your agency Anheuser-Busch and the
8 lobbyists to protect your alcohol advertising.
9 Of course your agency and Anheuser-Busch
10 prevailed over that mother and the other bill supporters.
11 You're promoting a product that's a factor in the three
12 leading causes of death among your number one outreach target,
13 youth. Would you promote a product that was a factor in the
14 three leading causes of death among the fish in our lakes and
15 rivers? I hope that each of you will take a minute to glance
16 over the exhibits attached to my written comments.
17 Thanks very much for your time.
18 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Terry Colley.
19 MS. TAYLOR: Good afternoon. I'm Janet Taylor,
20 a member of the governing board of Texans Standing Tall, TST.
21 We represent organizations and individuals in the statewide
22 coalition to prevent underaged drinking through changing norms
23 availability and regulations that currently condone or even
24 encourage underage use of alcohol. Alcohol issues by over
25 50 percent of Texas secondary students resulting in the
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1 highest youth alcohol related fatality crash rate in nation
2 and a cost to Texas of $4.1 billion dollars annually.
3 TST applauds your interest in children enjoying
4 the outdoors and is greatly concerned that alcohol is being
5 marketed to youth through publications and events of our Texas
6 State Parks and Wildlife Department. SB 305 no longer allows
7 TP&W to advertise tobacco products but alcohol marketing is
8 equally influential on young developing minds. When children
9 develop a positive association with a product at a very early
10 age, they are less likely to perceive the potential harm of
11 that product when they reach the age of experimentation.
12 The current TP&W regulations booklet on hunting
13 and fishing contain five alcohol advertisements. Fortunately
14 the current issue does not include cartoon animals which
15 especially attract younger children. It's not sufficient to
16 publish separate booklets for adult versus youth viewing
17 because youth easily and frequently pick up the regulations at
18 hunting and fishing supply stores such as Wal-Mart.
19 In past years the TP&W expo which draws huge
20 numbers of families has allowed alcohol marketing with
21 exhibits and animals featuring specific and appealing
22 alcoholic beverage logos. SB 305 directs you the TP&W
23 Commissioners to set rules regarding department advertising
24 that is appropriate for viewing by youth. The TST coalition
25 encourages you to consider the follow in determining the
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1 rules: A thorough literature review of research on the impact
2 of alcohol marketing on children, guidelines established by
3 youth serving organizations and agencies such as TEA, Texas
4 PTA, Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse, American
5 Medical Association, DARE and other substance abuse prevention
6 programs as well as the new demand reduction committee
7 established by the 77th Legislature include recognized
8 prevention specialists in the developmental process and
9 publish a draft of the rules for public review before
10 implementation. Our beautiful Texas parks in the great
11 diversity of wildlife are our second greatest resources in our
12 state. The first are our children.
13 The State Department of Parks and Wildlife has
14 an obligation to make sure our natural resources do not become
15 an environment to lead our youth into harmful behaviors. The
16 statewide coalition looks forward to hearing your plan to
17 comply with SB 305 on advertising appropriate for youth.
18 Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Myron Hess, could you get
20 ready.
21 MR. COLLEY: Good afternoon. I bring you
22 greetings from the Texas Historical Commission, the State
23 agency for historic preservation. My name is Terry Colley,
24 I'm the deputy executive director of the agency. And on
25 behalf of John Nau, our chairman, I want to express our
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1 appreciation for the spirit of cooperation that has developed
2 between our two agencies, specifically in two areas. The
3 first one is the area of the historic sites here in Texas. As
4 you may know Andy and Walt Dabney and I and some of our staff
5 have been meeting regularly to discuss the historic sites and
6 the progress improvements that need to be made there.
7 Bill Dolman and Cynthia Brandimarte, part of
8 your staff and I meet on a monthly basis to go over what's
9 happening on each of the sites and talk about the good things
10 that are happening there. We are hopeful that the bond issue
11 in November will pass and that we'll see further improvements
12 there. I want to thank you for your commitment to the
13 preservation and improvement to these sites for both the
14 citizens of Texas and those who visit our state, and that
15 leads me to our second point that I want to make.
16 We thank you for the tourism efforts that are
17 conducted through Texas Parks and Wildlife. As you may know,
18 we are one of the five tourism agencies in an MOU where we're
19 one of the new kids on the block, I guess you could say, and
20 we appreciate your including us in this tourism MOU and
21 specifically for the work that Lydia Saldana does. The
22 resources that she helps us with and is always there to answer
23 questions about the tourism issues in our state, so we are
24 very appreciative of that and we look forward to working with
25 you even more.
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1 Thank you very much.
2 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. Okay. Richard
3 Moore, get ready.
4 MR. HESS: Good afternoon, Chairperson Idsal,
5 Commissioners. My name is Myron Hess. I'm here today on
6 behalf of an organization called Texans for State Parks. I do
7 welcome the new Commission and I want to thank each of you
8 personally for the service that you provide to the State of
9 Texas and as these meetings always illustrate, you face a wide
10 variety of challenges and opportunities and we appreciate your
11 efforts.
12 Basically our organization is dedicated to
13 support the state park system. Educating the public about the
14 important of state parks, working with individual friends
15 groups that are increasing around the State and providing very
16 valuable services to state parks. Our organization was active
17 during the legislative session. It was successful. Do
18 recognize that you didn't get enough funding, a perpetual
19 problem. We do intend to be active this fall in informing the
20 public about the importance of the bond election. One
21 specific point that I would ask is that as you look at
22 opportunities for increasing funding if you look at park users
23 fees that you place a high priority on making sure that parks
24 remain affordable especially for families.
25 One of the key issues that came out of the
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1 Sunset process was the development of an inventory and a plan
2 for meeting conservation and recreational needs in the State.
3 We do urge a particular high priority for that inventory and
4 plan. Again, we do recognize that funding is limited but it
5 is critical to have a complete and accurate assessment of
6 conservation and recreational needs and a plan for meeting
7 those needs. One of the things that's clear in looking at
8 population projections for the State of Texas and that is that
9 we are facing an incredible population growth and that
10 population is increasingly urban. And it's -- we have got to
11 find means for those people to get outdoors and to understand
12 the importance of the outdoors. And I think maybe that the
13 problems that we're seeing in the Nueces River sort of serve
14 as an illustration of the importance of reaching people early
15 on and helping them to understand the implications of their
16 actions.
17 We do acknowledge that that state plan needs to
18 look at a combination of solutions at the state park system,
19 at the local park system, and the contributions of private
20 landowners who choose to participate. We're going to need
21 everybody working together but we are also are confident
22 because of that huge population growth that there's going to
23 be a need for expansion of the state park system. And we need
24 to move on that now because as we all know it's going to be
25 more and more difficult to acquire that property as the
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1 population continues to increase. But it's a tremendous need
2 that has to be met. We look forward to working with you in
3 the upcoming year on the inventory and all the other efforts
4 that you make on behalf of state parks.
5 Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Muriel Tipps, could you be
7 ready.
8 MR. MOORE: Thank you, Madame Chairman,
9 Commissioners. My name is Richard Moore I represent PISCES
10 and you know what, we didn't catch the last shrimp. We still
11 have a few. But we do have a problem with some of the
12 regulations that we have to work under now. These regulations
13 came at a difficult time and they're not completely clear to
14 the fishermen or the people that have to enforce these
15 regulations. And I I'm asking to be -- have a cleanup or have
16 more time awarded so everybody can understand these new
17 regulations better because we're having a few problems with it
18 and these things going to go into effect September 1. And we
19 don't need any more problems. We've talked with Parks and
20 Wildlife, the director of fisheries and there's no clear-cut
21 agreement yet on how these things are going to work. They
22 keep changing the pamphlet in the book. There's been some
23 changes in it. There's been some changes today. We came up
24 here to discuss our problems and we've had some changes
25 already made. We still need to be cleaned up in some of these
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1 regulations and I'm asking the Commission to direct Parks and
2 Wildlife and the Coastal fisheries to go slow, make sure we do
3 this right where the people that have to make a living under
4 these regulations doesn't suffer any more problems.
5 We've developed another fishery, people are
6 going into it because of the loss of the 15 days that we had
7 in December and the 15 days that we lost in February. There's
8 another fishery that these boats are going into. It's called
9 a seabob fishery. And there's a lot of discrepancy in this
10 and people need to be aware of the problems there's going to
11 be in that fishery. All we're asking for is time to work with
12 the director of Parks and Wildlife Coastal fisheries and the
13 fishermen so everybody has a clear idea of what we're talking
14 about and how it's going to work.
15 Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Dwayne Harrison, would you get
17 ready.
18 MS. TIPPS: Goods afternoon. Hello,
19 Commissioners, Andy. My name is Muriel Tipps, I'm one of the
20 Matagorda County seafood representatives and I'm here to
21 comment on issues that are important to the shrimping
22 industry. As we all know, this last set of regulations was a
23 bit chaotic and I too agree that some further work needs to be
24 done on clarification, terminology, and regulatory enforcement
25 on some of the regulations that I'll mention and I'll be
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1 brief. One of them would be to seabob fishery try net where
2 there's a gray area. The by catch reduction device which
3 should be ongoing with demonstrations, testing, and funding.
4 License renewal procedures which were a bit chaotic for the
5 commercial fishermen this year. This will be my third trip
6 back to finish my licensing. The Shrimp Advisory Committee
7 which should be undergoing some restructure. And the by catch
8 reduction device enforcement in it's infancy. There's still a
9 lot of testing to be done.
10 We also have concerns on the enforcement of the
11 gulf closure of the two 50-foot nets to the three-mile line.
12 We would ask for your support in letting the coastal fisheries
13 staff implement some workshops up through December and work at
14 the local levels on up. And I would also like to submit a
15 letter from Mr. Uher that Andy has received to try to in an
16 expedient manner work out the terminology for the seabob try
17 net because that season does start in November. I would ask
18 for your support on that. And, Andy, if you'll submit your
19 letter, I would appreciate it.
20 Thank you very much.
21 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Dwayne Harrison and Wesley
22 Blevins.
23 MR. HARRISON: Hello. My name is Dwayne
24 Harrison and I am a commercial fisherman as well as shrimper.
25 And I would like to say just one thing to the gentleman that
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1 was talking about using the waters for commercial use. I paid
2 about $1,300 this year so I could shrimp. So I'm paying my
3 share of, you know, what is necessary. I don't know if
4 you-all are aware of it, but one of the things that has
5 brought me great disturbed is the toxic waste dump that is
6 currently on the works of being put in over in Chambers
7 County. I think that the State being concerned of our
8 resource has -- last year they closed off an area of the bay
9 claiming it to be an estuary. Well, it's right on the
10 boundaries of where they're putting in this toxic waste dump
11 which is going to be the runoff is going to be going into the
12 estuary area that we no longer can shrimp because it's
13 supposed to be a sacred area. But at the same time they got a
14 toxic waste dump going in. What the heck is going on? I
15 would like for you-all to help out in that area, if you can.
16 You know, you won't let us work there, but others are.
17 And then as far as that try net, it's already
18 been addressed by a few others. I'm only allowed to work 108
19 days out of the year without any restrictions. I gave up one
20 of them days to come up here today so I'm only allowed 107
21 days to make a living. And then now you're going to tell me I
22 have to also do it blindfolded without a dad gum try net. So
23 I don't understand if you-all are just trying to put us out of
24 business or what's going on, but some of these regulations are
25 ridiculous. And I'm only trying to make a living, so help me
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1 out guys, ladies, you know, something's got to change.
2 You-all keep squeezing us and squeezing us and squeezing us.
3 Where is it going to stop? That's all. I just -- just a
4 working guy trying to make a living. I worked in the chemical
5 plants for 15 years and not one time did they tell me I could
6 only work six hours a day like you-all tell me that I can only
7 work five months out of the year. Six hours a day. Is there
8 anybody in this room that can only work six hour a day? Not
9 nobody. Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Bryan Sybert get ready.
11 MR. BLEVINS: Madame Chairman, members of the
12 Commission, the lady is bringing you-all some pictures around
13 to look at. My name is Welsey Blevins and I represent the
14 Calhoun County shrimpers. And I'm here asking Texas Parks and
15 Wildlife to work with us on the fine tune of the placement of
16 the BRDs in the net which hasn't been done. And I got one
17 other issue, I don't want to hit on it too much, but Texas
18 Parks and Wildlife, we need some help on the Guadalupe River
19 to get the water flow back like it needs to be and we would
20 like to work with the Parks and Wildlife on that.
21 We support the group from San Marcos that's
22 asking for water permits. I don't -- I ain't got much time,
23 but I would like for you-all to ask questions if need be.
24 You-all excuse me, I ain't a very good speaker but anyhow
25 these pictures here on the first Page 1 and 2 they're kind of
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1 out of order, they're backwards but it shows me pulling the
2 bag in with a lazy line, that's what we call it and it's a
3 choker strap. It goes around and it goes through rings in the
4 net on the bag there. And as you can see the BRDs at
5 nine-foot. The rings there are on about ten and half foot is
6 what they're on where the choker strap goes around. And that
7 won't work according to the law that we got to live with right
8 now. All right. And you can see on Picture 2 is where I'm
9 putting the whip line around the bag right below the BRD. If
10 I move the BRD down it's going to even put more strain on it.
11 And what happens that you can see that's nine-inch bird right
12 there, that's bigger than we're required to pull. And you can
13 see that it's bent a little bit, that's because of the trips
14 it's made up and down with this whip line or the sling around
15 the bag. And as you can see in the other Pictures 4 and 3
16 over here on the same page, the strain whenever the bag coming
17 out of the water on the BRD, you can see the front end of it
18 how it's tearing loose from the bag. On both pictures there
19 it shows it clearly and this is a terrible load of cannon
20 balls, cabbage heads, and it's full completely to the bird
21 when it's dragging in the water you can see that it compresses
22 down and goes down. This is about a 15, 1,800 pound lift
23 right here. And on the other page on the second page you can
24 see what I'm my turtle excluder has bars in there. They're
25 only a inch and a half apart and Parks and Wildlife and
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1 everyone knows that this is the best by catch reduction device
2 there is. Of course, we wouldn't want to pull this
3 year-round, there's no way, because you can see how much of a
4 loss you would have on shrimp. But inch and a half bars
5 you're catching 13, 15, 16, 18, they're as wide as the bars
6 are. But we have to live with this device sometimes and what
7 we're asking for as long as we're pulling a device that's like
8 this, we shouldn't even have to have a BRD in the bag. All
9 we're asking for on the BRD and Parks and Wildlife, you-all
10 have the authority to do this immediately.
11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you,
12 Mr. Blevins.
13 MR. BLEVINS: Would you like to ask me a
14 question?
15 COMMISSIONER DINKINS: I would like for you to
16 finish your sentence.
17 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I was going to say. The
18 question I have is could you finish your sentence.
19 MR. BLEVINS: All we're asking for right now
20 today is the Feds, they're ruling up what we was understanding
21 that we was going to have to live by. They go 12-foot and you
22 can see it's five-eights lazy line will not choke -- will not
23 cut nothing off on that BRD. An elephant ear is a different
24 situation, but this choker strap wouldn't -- an elephant ear
25 wouldn't either if it was pulled under the bottom. Bill
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1 Balboa was at the meeting the other night and Palacios was
2 where we were at and even the national marine fisheries gear
3 technician they said that it would work what I was talking
4 about. And all we're asking for is just one more foot up on
5 the BRD and we can go above the lazy line because that is
6 where we have the main shrimp loss is at that ten to eight
7 foot because the lazy line is in front of the BRD. And you
8 can't -- at 10-foot you can't put it where the BRD is is all
9 we're asking for is just one more foot. Just give us 11-foot
10 and you-all have got the power to do that.
11 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: That's the longest sentence
12 I've ever heard.
13 MR. BLEVINS: I wanted to make sure I got my
14 point and really we need it serious.
15 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Madame Chairman,
16 could I ask Hal a quick question?
17 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Yes.
18 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Hal, can you briefly
19 summarize the trade-off on this, tell me about just briefly
20 about the toxic plant the other gentleman mentioned and what
21 is the try net issue, just short answers is fine.
22 MR. OSBURN: Yes, sir. Hal Osburn, Coastal
23 Fisheries Division Director. There is a permit in the process
24 at TNRCC for a fairly heavy duty toxic waste plant. I suspect
25 Dr. McKinney would have a little better detail on that. The
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1 department does not have authority on denying that or issuing
2 that. I know that we will be commenting as we're allowed to
3 to the TNRCC in developing that. We certainly do have those
4 same concerns the commercial fishermen or our good
5 environmentalists when it comes to recognizing the health of
6 the estuary and that area is in a nursery area and we
7 certainly do concur that that area would not be something you
8 would want to expose to toxic waste even in an accident.
9 The try net in the seabob fishery historically
10 the -- the -- the rules actually established by the
11 Legislature in 1959 did not have allowance for a try net in
12 the seabob fishery. We did not change those rules last
13 summer. The Commission did not -- we did not propose any
14 changes to that. We actually liberalized the seabob fishery
15 by expanding the net from 25 to 42 feet. We didn't receive
16 any comments that there needed to be a try net and I think
17 that the fishery has now sort of recognized that maybe that
18 was an oversight and certainly we would like to work with
19 them. I don't think there is a big problem with having a try
20 net in the seabob fishery. I couldn't exactly say why that
21 was exempted in 1959, but right now it probably would be a
22 useful tool for the expanding seabob fishery. The by catch
23 reduction devices, I think as you heard a lot of that
24 terminology is fairly complicated. The federal rules, the
25 State rules we tested a number of devices. We tried to
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1 establish the most liberal set of BRDs that the fishery could
2 use. There's a number of them that they can -- can use. I
3 think that because of the complexity a lot of different
4 fishermen use different gear out there and as they are now
5 implementing that BRD into their net, they're finding out some
6 technical glitches and I would certainly support working with
7 them in a timely manner to perhaps do a cleanup on -- to be
8 sure we allow legitimate gear, gear that is not going to
9 compromise the use of BRDs and TEDs but maintain the spirit of
10 what with the Commission passed last year. I have no problem
11 with working with them on doing that.
12 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Pam Baker, could you be ready.
14 MR. SYBERT: Madame Chair, members of the
15 Commission. My name is Bryan Sybert and I'm representing the
16 Lone Star Chapter of the Sierra Club. I would like to begin
17 by basically thanking the Parks and Wildlife Commission and
18 the staff for all of the work that went into the shrimp
19 regulations that were passed one year ago to this date.
20 Those -- it was a very difficult and arduous process and
21 decision to go forward with those regulations but it was a
22 very important decision. That was an extremely important step
23 in the right direction towards improving the health of our
24 coastal fisheries and reducing the impacts of by catch and
25 things of that nature.
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1 So far the initial results of the regulations
2 are very promising sea turtle strandings have been down by
3 20 percent from December through mid-July of this year. And
4 also shrimp harvest seem to be strong. So it looks at this
5 point the regulations are working and I think it's important
6 that at this time that we continue to monitor the regulations,
7 how they're affecting the fishery, continue to monitor sea
8 turtle strandings and by catch.
9 In addition, I think it's extremely important
10 that we focus on enforcement and make sure that the
11 regulations are being adequately enforced so that we can
12 achieve the desired results particularly at nighttime.
13 Earlier in the summer and in the spring I would -- most likely
14 in the spring and early summer there were reports of
15 violations particularly off of the South Padre or the Padre
16 Island area during the closure of the five nautical mile
17 closure. So I think we need to pay attention to that so that
18 we can definitely achieve the desired result of the
19 regulations.
20 And in addition, I think it would be very
21 interesting -- I look forward to seeing the results of the
22 comprehensive economic and biological survey of the shrimp
23 fishery the Commission mandated one year ago with the passage
24 of the regulations. And I think again that will show that the
25 regulations are moving in the right direction. So with that I
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1 would just like to say thank you and thanks for the
2 opportunity to speak.
3 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: DeDe Armentrout, you get
4 ready, please.
5 MS. BAKER: Hello, my name is Pam Baker I'm a
6 fisheries biologist with environmental defense. I would also
7 like to talk about shrimp for just a moment. Shrimp is our
8 state's and our country's favorite seafood and it's a
9 multimillion dollar contributor to the coastal economy. Last
10 summer the TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION passed a series
11 of new regulations to help ensure healthy stocks of this value
12 crop for now and the future. I want to thank the
13 Commissioners and the Parks and Wildlife staff for taking this
14 important step last year. I would also like to provide just a
15 very brief summary of the first year effects of just one of
16 the management strategies that was implemented, and that was
17 the December through mid-July shrimp trawling ban off Padre
18 Island. This regulation is intended to protect spawning
19 shrimp and mating and nesting sea turtles by moving shrimpers
20 five miles offshore to deeper waters away from sensitive near
21 shore habitats that turtles and shrimp share.
22 The seasonal ban ended last month and initial
23 results are encouraging. Research collected by Padre Island
24 National seashore scientists has been analyzed by Texas Parks
25 and Wildlife biologists. This year sea turtle strandings from
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1 January through mid-July off Padre Island were down nearly
2 20 percent compared to the average of the previous five years.
3 It's very encouraging that strandings are also down statewide
4 signifying that the shrimping ban may reduce strandings
5 overall and not simply shift the damage to beaches where
6 shrimpers are working. While turtle strandings have dropped
7 gulf shrimp landings have been remained strong. And some
8 newspapers have quoted gulf shrimpers reporting the best
9 catches in a decade.
10 The National Marine Fisheries Service confirmed
11 this. They're analysts showed that statewide gulf shrimp
12 landings would from January through June were about
13 12.8 million pounds and that's about 2 percent below the
14 four-year average. Clearly it's too early for a final
15 conclusion or to claim victory for the new shrimp regulations.
16 In fact a two net limit in near shore waters was just
17 implemented last month and a requirement for bay shrimpers to
18 use by-catch reduction devices will kick in next month. We
19 respectfully encourage the TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION
20 to keep two important issues in mind. First, continue to
21 vigorously monitor shrimp spawning spots stocks and landings,
22 and sea turtle strandings and other measures of effectiveness
23 to determine if we're on the right track. And second boosting
24 enforcement levels to make sure the regulations can work as
25 well as designed. Thank you.
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Dianne Wassenich, could you be
2 ready, please?
3 MS. ARMENTROUT: Chairperson Idsal,
4 Commissioners, Mr. Sansom, and ladies and gentlemen, my name
5 is DeDe Armentrout. I'm the executive director of the
6 Mountain Lion Foundation of Texas. The Mountain Lion
7 Foundation was formed in July of 1991 -- I mean 1999 and is a
8 charitable nonprofit organization dedicated to the
9 conservation of mountain lions and their habitats in Texas.
10 I'm here today to list some of our initiatives that I think
11 might be of interest to you and also to share some of our
12 concerns. One of my heros is Ashley Brilliant who believes
13 anything that's work saying can be said in 16 words. He wrote
14 a book called, I May Not Be perfect, But Parts of Me Are
15 Excellent. I wish I could say in 16 words what I feel I need
16 to say about mountain lions. I'm not sure I can make it in
17 three minutes, and even though I've spent ten years in Austin
18 and know how to run red lights, I'm not sure Andy will let me
19 get away for that for long. So I'm going to cut to the
20 summary at the back of my statement first to the make sure I
21 get that in. And I'll use the remaining time, if there is
22 any, to go over some of our programs. We don't know how many
23 lions we have in Texas. We don't know how many lions we're
24 killing in Texas and we don't know the impact that the take
25 has on the stability or sustainability of mountain lion
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1 populations and in Texas. That's a terrible situation to be
2 in when one is determining seasons and bag limits on a
3 regulated game species. It's even worse when one is facing
4 unlimited take on a wildlife species that is unregulated.
5 Consequently, we're very concerned that lions
6 are still taken in unlimited numbers throughout the State
7 without any clue about what's going on in lion populations.
8 Texas once had six of the seven wildcats found in North
9 America. We had the jaguar and margay both went extinct in
10 Texas in my lifetime and I'm not that old. We have the ocelot
11 and jaguarundi, both now endangered but protected in Texas.
12 And we have the bobcat and mountain lion neither of which is
13 monitored, and both of which are subject to unlimited harvest.
14 We encourage the department to cooperate in
15 learning more about these great icons of the West. To develop
16 safety and depredation advise and to monitor the take of
17 mountain lions. It would be a dreadful shame if Texas were to
18 lose a wildcat species on your watch. I'm determined that
19 such a tragedy will not happen and I hope you are too.
20 This past December we cosponsored a three-day
21 international workshop on mountain lions sharing our hosting
22 duties with the help and support of Texas Parks and Wildlife
23 Department and Sul Ross University. We brought in lion
24 scientists from all over the United States, Canada, and Mexico
25 and had participants from as far away as Wales and Norway.
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1 The proceedings are due to be published soon and networking
2 among lion scientists is ongoing. And we are pleased to have
3 been the catalyst in getting that international symposium for
4 the first time in Texas.
5 We've put up a web site with information on
6 human safety, mountain lion natural history, habitat, and prey
7 information and we've met with landowners and are pleased to
8 find the number of ranchers interested in working with us both
9 to develop advice on avoiding livestock depredation and to
10 develop ecotourism opportunities on ranches.
11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: You're almost out,
12 if you can conclude your remarks.
13 MS. ARMENTROUT: Okay. I thought so. Well,
14 I've given you my summary, so let me just thank you your
15 attention an encourage you to continue. You have a phenomenal
16 job here in a state with wonderful wildlife resources and it's
17 extremely important. I'll be happy to answer any questions
18 and look forward to working with you and with the staff of
19 Parks and Wildlife Department.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: William Montgomery, could you
21 be ready.
22 MS. WASSENICH: My name is Diane Wassenich.
23 I'm the president of the San Marcos River Foundation and I
24 want to express my deep appreciation Chair Idsal and all of
25 you Commissioners for your rapt attention through all of this
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1 and all of our talks. And I want to let you know that I would
2 not be offended in the least if you would like to stand up and
3 stretch at any point while I'm talking.
4 The San Marcos River is 90 miles long. It
5 joins the Guadalupe River near Gonzales. Our river flows to
6 the bays and estuaries at the Gulf of Mexico along with the
7 Guadalupe. Ninety percent of the freshwater that reaches the
8 bays and estuaries at the mouth of the Guadalupe during dry
9 periods comes from the San Marcos River and the Comal River.
10 These two rivers, as you know, probably flow from a large
11 spring system in the Edwards aquifer and they're vital to the
12 survival of the bays and estuaries. I want to thank
13 Mr. Blevins for his reference to what we are trying to do, our
14 organization is very concerned. Since the early '90s we've
15 realized that there are problems down in the bays and
16 estuaries and our basin. There is very high salinity or too
17 salty water regarding -- which is effecting the system down
18 there because of the lack of freshwater making it down to the
19 bay and estuary during dry periods. You're probably very
20 familiar with these problems in the Rio Grande River system.
21 We have addressed the regional water planning
22 groups and we do -- we have observed what's going on there
23 with regional water planning. We really are realizing that
24 there's a crisis that Texas rivers bays and estuaries are
25 facing and it may be too late for some rivers and we're hoping
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1 it's not too late for the Guadalupe. We're glad to see years
2 ago TNRCC is working on a new water availability model but
3 very sad that it's still not done. Meanwhile, water rights
4 continue to be granted in our basin and unused old irrigation
5 water rights and hydro rights are being converted to municipal
6 rights. These are now being used fully rather than just
7 seasonally or partially as they were in the past hundred years
8 leaving even less water available for the bay.
9 Governor Bush's task force on conservation, we
10 were very happy to see. They did make recommendations to
11 purchase and accept donations of water rights to maintain the
12 health of the bays and estuaries. And other good news in '98
13 we were thrilled to see the Texas Parks and Wildlife study
14 completed of the Guadalupe estuary listing how much -- exactly
15 exact how much freshwater is needed for minimal flows to keep
16 the bays healthy. That really helped us to have that number,
17 but still no action was being taken and water rights were
18 being granted and so we realize it was really an emergency
19 situation during this last year really dry conditions when
20 there were very grave effects at the bay and estuary.
21 So our organization decided to work within the
22 water rights system. We filed for a water right application
23 last year.
24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Could you conclude
25 your remarks, ma'am, thank you.
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1 MS. WASSENICH: Okay. I would like to tell you
2 much more about this. I've had to cut my talk considerably,
3 but I do want you to know that our web site is
4 www.sanmarcosriver.org. Any questions you would ever have
5 about this application, we would love to answer.
6 Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: John B. Miller, could you be
8 ready, please.
9 MR. MONTGOMERY: Thank you, Madame Chairman and
10 members of the Commission. I'm William Montgomery and I'll
11 speak briefly on behalf of Neighbors for Neighbors and also on
12 behalf of timber rattlesnakes about the issue of relocation of
13 timber rattlesnakes especially in regard to Alcoa's proposed
14 Three Oaks Mine. Alcoa has proposed Three Oaks Mine, part of
15 their proposal includes the relocation of timber rattlesnakes.
16 Their mine includes suitable habitat within the range of the
17 timber rattlesnake which is a species listed as threatened by
18 TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION.
19 Their proposal of relocating rattlesnakes will
20 not work for several reasons. First of all their plan states
21 that a once per year search and removal relocation survey will
22 be conducted. This species is secretive and difficult to find
23 according to researcher John Sealy who has done extensive work
24 with this species. The combination of coloration and cryptic
25 behavior is so effective that even telemetered snakes are
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1 often difficult to see when coiled on the surface of the
2 forest floor. Even under ideal circumstances it would be
3 impossible to collect more than just a small percentage of the
4 population. Those that are not collected will presumably be
5 killed by the mining operations.
6 Second the research on this and other
7 rattlesnake species have shown that relocation does not work.
8 To quote noted expert Harry Green, timber rattlesnakes have
9 regular idiosyncratic seasonal movements to and from winter
10 and summer sites. If timber rattlesnakes are translocated a
11 short distance, they just orient back to where they want to
12 be. If adults are translocated longer distances they try to
13 find their way home, generally fail at that and fail to
14 establish themselves in a new home range. They then slowly
15 starve, fail to survive the winter due to use of inadequate
16 shelter or perish because in traveling so much they make
17 themselves more vulnerable to predators, auto traffic, human
18 persecution, et cetera.
19 At a recent member of the timber rattlesnake
20 conservation action plan committee it with actually stated
21 that we should consider translocation of the snakes to be a
22 threat to the species. In a recent study by Howard Rheinart
23 and Robert Rupert translocated snakes exhibited atypical
24 movement patterns consistent of extensive and long distance
25 traveling in spite of the fact that the snakes were moved to
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1 an area which contained healthy resident population and ideal
2 habitat.
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you,
4 Mr. Montgomery if you conclude your remarks.
5 MR. MONTGOMERY: Okay. In conclusion I would
6 like to urge the committee to reconsider relocation as an
7 effective means of dealing with threatened populations of the
8 timber rattlesnakes.
9 Thank you.
10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Montgomery, I hope I don't
11 have to recuse myself from future discussions on this subject,
12 but I just realized that I own one of your prints of a
13 rattlesnake.
14 MR. MONTGOMERY: Great. Which species, the
15 timber rattlesnake?
16 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: No, it think it is a western
17 diamondback.
18 MR. MONTGOMERY: It's a black tail. I haven't
19 done the western diamondback yet.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Okay.
21 MR. MONTGOMERY: Thank you.
22 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. John Miller.
23 Michelle Cook.
24 MS. LESSO: Madame Chairman, Ms. Cook had to
25 leave --
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1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Then Linda Lesso.
2 MS. LESSO: Well, we were going to give you
3 one-two punch, but my partner had to leave. So good afternoon
4 ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Sansom. I'm Linda Lesso and I'm
5 with Friends with the Lost Pines State Park that's Bastrop and
6 Buescher State Parks and let me first give you the good stuff.
7 Here's a photograph of a children's playground
8 that we built at Buescher State Park. So I'll condense two
9 people into one here real quickly. We're a relatively new
10 group. We're about three years old. We're extremely pleased
11 at contributions we've been able to make to the parks, Bastrop
12 and Buescher. We've built a children's playground at both of
13 the parks. One at the cost of on $30,000, one at a cost of
14 $20,000. We are very happy with how we've been able to
15 partner with the staffs. We've furnished a lot of supplies
16 needed equipment, and so forth. So we're looking forward to
17 again participating in the legacy activities and this year we
18 are going to be contributing $4,000 to the endowment efforts.
19 So that's the good stuff.
20 And now our president John Pollard was not able
21 to attend. I am a board member and on his behalf I have a
22 letter to read to you.
23 "Dear Mr. Sansom, Two years ago we came to you
24 and the Commissioners asking that you look into and consider
25 taking action on a matter that could -- that could destroy the
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1 Lost Pines State Parks Bastrop and Buescher as we know them.
2 Our concern is primarily a draw down in the water table as a
3 result of Alcoa's intended strip mine in northern Bastrop
4 County. We are very pleased and take this opportunity to
5 publicly thank you for looking into the matter. Texas Parks
6 and Wildlife conducted a study, evaluation of natural
7 resources in Bastrop, Burleson, Lee and Milam Counties. A
8 brief excerpt from the conclusion states, quote, 'the Lost
9 Pines are a unique and disjunct loblolly pine forest found in
10 sandy soils of Bastrop County. A thorough analysis of the
11 relationship between ground water levels is needed to
12 determine whether and to what extent they will be affected by
13 lowering of the ground water table. Before ground water is
14 exported out of the study area, the potential effects of
15 dewatering needs to be evaluated and documented." I see I
16 already have the orange light there. So I'm just going to
17 give you our final paragraph on this letter and I have copies
18 which will be distributed.
19 "We ask that you do two things. Please
20 formally request the Texas Natural Resource Conversation
21 Commission to hold a public hearing on Alcoa's request for a
22 water permit as relates to the proposed strip mine. Secondly,
23 you are probably aware that the U.S. Corps. of Engineers is
24 conducting an environmental impact statement. Please submit a
25 list of concerns to the U.S. Army Corps. of Engineers as part
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1 of the scoping process. We understand the deadline for both
2 of these actions is September 20th, 2001." So boy that was a
3 fast one.
4 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you.
5 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, ma'am,
6 and thank you for your support of the park.
7 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Okay. Peggie Kimberlin and
8 Steve Simmons.
9 MS. KIMBERLIN: Madame Chair, Commission, it's
10 always good to see you and I welcome the invitation to speak
11 today. First off I'd like -- I'm here on behalf of the Trail
12 Riders Journal and equestrians throughout Texas and the
13 southwest. We want to commend the Texas Parks and Wildlife
14 for all of the positive equestrian trails and facilities that
15 have been included in the last couple of years in the State
16 parks. They've opened up a whole new world for a lot of the
17 youth. One problem with that good news is recently a Denton
18 woman had no choice but to euthanize her horse after being
19 exposed to Coggins at the Lakeway Roberts State Park, the Al
20 Dubois equestrian campsite.
21 The reason I mention this is the fact that
22 Coggins, for those that don't know, is a virus very similar to
23 AIDS. It's in horses and Texas Animal Health Commission
24 requires you have to euthanize your animal or have it
25 quarantined on property that's not adjacent to any other
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1 equestrian. So you obviously have one option. And it is a
2 law as of September '95 for the Texas Animal Health Commission
3 that Coggins' papers have to be checked. Owners of horses
4 have to have those within one year where the blood has been
5 drawn and the test shows that animal is negative. And the
6 State parks, we really would hope that there be a uniform
7 procedure for checking these papers where you have an
8 equestrian facility within the State park. It is a law and
9 some parks do check these papers but in this particular case
10 they were not checked up there and I know personally that I've
11 been checked in some parks and other occasions you go back and
12 you won't be checked. So it's very vital that -- that these
13 papers be checked.
14 I'd also like to commend the Commission for the
15 work that you-all do with the national recreation trail
16 grants. And I know the Texas Trails Advisory Board will be
17 reviewing that probably tomorrow. And I would like to
18 strongly recommend hopefully support for Item 10 which is a
19 cross timbers equestrian trail riders association. They've
20 been very instrumental with the Corps. of Engineers and Texas
21 Parks and Wildlife in getting multiuse trails and this
22 particular project will open 26 miles of trails connecting
23 Flower Mound, Lewisville, Westlake, South Lake, Trophy Club,
24 Grapevine, the Colony, Colleyville, Argyle, and Roanoke. And
25 this is a lot of people that will connect the north and south
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1 sides of Lake Grapevine. So it's a win-win situation for the
2 residents and for the park people too. Thank you.
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you,
4 Ms. Kimberlin.
5 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Can I ask a quick
6 question? A horse was exposed to Coggins, is that what
7 happened in one of our parks?
8 MS. KIMBERLIN: Yes, sir. The horse came up
9 position and they had to euthanize the horse.
10 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: From another horse
11 that was there, is that what happened?
12 MS. KIMBERLIN: Yes, sir. On the neck of
13 horses that have been confirmed by the State of Texas they
14 have to have a 74A brand on their shoulder and this horse had
15 that. That he was in the park.
16 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: One other question on
17 that. My understanding was that the Texas Animal Health
18 Commission requires a Coggins paper to travel with the animal
19 to any event or gathering I think; is that right?
20 MS. KIMBERLIN: Yes, sir.
21 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: My daughter does
22 rodeo and we have to carry all those papers was us.
23 MS. KIMBERLIN: Absolutely.
24 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Just coming in out of
25 a park could not be defined by the Animal Health Commission as
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1 an event or gathering?
2 MS. KIMBERLIN: If you're bringing your horse
3 it is.
4 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: The person was in violation of
5 that rule?
6 MS. KIMBERLIN: Pardon me?
7 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Was the person that had the --
8 MS. KIMBERLIN: Yes. The horse that was there
9 was there illegally. In fact there's speculation that horse
10 had already been sold to someone in Oklahoma.
11 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: The point of my
12 question is the Animal Health Commission provides inspectors
13 to these events and that seems to be a problem because we're
14 open; is that right?
15 MS. KIMBERLIN: Yes. Where you have like say
16 the Fort Worth stock show. Yes, they usually have several of
17 their officers there. I personally conduct a wagon train
18 trail ride to Big Bend every year. I personally check those.
19 Whoever the organizer, whether it's an entity or an
20 organization is required to check those papers. And like
21 right now for the expo I wanted to also commend you-all on the
22 expo that's coming up. There's going to be several wagoners
23 and trial riders and even Dr. Kloninger in his paperwork we
24 have to carry our Coggins papers on us, on our horse because
25 Texas Animal Health Commission can stop you riding by a
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1 highway and you better have your papers. It a serious issue
2 that really needs to be -- and very easy to do the paperwork.
3 A lot of parks people have been quoted as saying oh, well,
4 we'd have to hire more manpower for that. Well, it's
5 equestrians that are -- responsible equestrians carry their
6 papers with them. All you need is a form and they can fill it
7 out and then all you have to look to see if this is a brown
8 horse in that trailer. And another thing I would like to add
9 in the paperwork and the brochures the media, the web page
10 that shows equestrian facilities in the State parks, if they
11 could put three little words it will help deter those who are
12 not going by the rules. Negative Coggins required. That's
13 just very simple and lot of people do honor that. Thank you
14 for your time.
15 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Steve Simmons and then Jack
16 Holman.
17 MR. SIMMONS: Good afternoon ladies and
18 gentlemen. My name is Steve Simmons. I represent three
19 wildlife management associations in Bastrop County, 301
20 landowners totalling 66,000 acres.
21 The Bastrop County Wildlife Management
22 Association is very much opposed to the hunting regulation
23 passed this year allowing the youth to doe hunt two days on
24 January 19th and 20th of 2002. First of all, we are a county
25 with low deer numbers. The three WMAs have worked very hard
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1 to increase deer numbers by planting food plots, prescribed
2 burning and predator control, and last but not least trapping
3 and transplanting within the WMAs. Allowing this hunt to
4 occur in Bastrop County goes against what the WMAs are trying
5 to accomplish at this -- at this point. In the future the
6 Texas Parks and Wildlife biologist harvest recommendation for
7 that specific county should be greatly taken into
8 consideration prior to imposing such regulations. Like Texas
9 Parks and Wildlife, we too have a common goal to preserve and
10 protect wildlife for future generations of Texans.
11 Thank you.
12 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Jack Holman and then Larry
13 Vasbinder.
14 MR. HOLMAN: Good afternoon. I'm Jack Holman
15 and I'm representing the Texas Organization of Wildlife
16 Management Associations or TOWMA. It's a group of wildlife
17 management associations in the entire State of Texas that
18 totals approximately 3,000 landowners and approximately
19 1,500,000 acres of land. And I would like to add our support
20 to what Mr. Simmons had just said but expand it a little bit.
21 The area east of Austin he was speaking about Bastrop County
22 but it also includes Lee, Fayette, Washington, and Austin
23 Counties have very low deer densities. A lot of these
24 wildlife management associations have worked real hard on the
25 habitat. They work with trapping and transporting deer into
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1 the area trying to build up the low deer densities. Some of
2 the areas have deer numbers as low as one deer per 500 acres.
3 And TOWMA is -- I would like to go on record as being against
4 doe hunts in regions like that where there's a very low deer
5 density unless it's by some of kind of a permit. I want to
6 also stress that TOWMA supports youth hunting and as a matter
7 of fact at our last meeting we've had representatives from the
8 Texas Wildlife Association, Mr. Jerry Warden speak and we're
9 going to pattern youth hunts after their structured means of
10 having these hunts and we very much support youth hunting.
11 And we're going to have that and -- but it will be where
12 there's higher deer densities. And I would like to close by
13 saying that we appreciate the support we've got in the past
14 from the Parks and Wildlife Department especially the field
15 biologists. We really appreciate the technical guidance
16 they've provided and that we -- and I ask that you-all pay
17 close what the field biologists have to say in their specific
18 regions.
19 Thank you very much.
20 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Madame Chairman. Would
21 not the individual landowners be able to determine whether or
22 not those youth hunts took place on their properties?
23 MR. HOLMAN: Yes, they can. But what I'm
24 concerned about is a co-op having -- say one deer for 400
25 acres and they've worked real hard to try to protect that
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1 resource and they have a youth hunt that's open to the general
2 public, no permit required and the landowners are on the
3 perimeter of this and with just a few deer being killed will
4 hurt that resource in those specific areas. But it's up to --
5 it's up to each individual landowner. If you're not going to
6 have a problem within the co-ops, all co-ops that I'm aware of
7 are more conservative with their deer harvests than the
8 general public.
9 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: You're concerned about
10 adjoining landowners?
11 MR. HOLMAN: Yes. I'm concerned about people
12 who are not members of the co-op.
13 MR. VASBINDER: Good afternoon, commissioners.
14 I'm Larry Vasbinder, a farmer and rancher from De Witt County
15 in the lower Oak Prairie District. I'm here today
16 representing more than 135 landowners of the western and
17 central De Witt County Wildlife Management Associations which
18 now comprise approximately 110,000 acres in De Witt County.
19 I'm going a cofounder and current chairman of
20 the western De Witt association that was established in 1990,
21 one the original coops. And these coops are one of the finest
22 tools that Texas Parks and Wildlife has come up and helped
23 landowners support what we're trying to do with wildlife
24 management. I'll kind of cut my letter short since I've got
25 people that have expressed the same ideas that we have here in
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1 De Witt County. Our numbers were very low in 1990 about
2 20 percent or less than what we had had five years before.
3 And we started this association we've imported deer, we work
4 with Parks and Wildlife and now we're probably back to about
5 80 percent of the level that we had in 1985 and our program is
6 a model, a model program for what we've done down there. And
7 a lot of people have tried to copy what we're doing and the
8 biologists from Texas Parks and Wildlife have been very
9 instrumental. When this law passed recently and came out in
10 the handbook, we were very unaware that this youth season was
11 going to be implemented. The biologists were not aware of it
12 and did not recommend it and we are opposed it to for the fact
13 that not because of the youth, we are entirely favor of youth
14 hunting, but you can't have a program where you have a one
15 buck county and does by MLD permit issued like in our county
16 it's one permit for about 500 acres where we do have enough
17 does. And then pass a law like this where youth can come in
18 all around you and kill two antlerless deer without a permit.
19 This totally destroys everything that we have done. And we
20 ask that you consider this and remove this from the
21 regulations next year.
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Tom Goynes and Sparky
24 Anderson.
25 MR. GOYNES: Hello. My name is Tom Goynes and
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1 I'm the president of the Texas Rivers Protection Association.
2 And we're a statewide group of canoeists and kayakers. And I
3 guess as such we have all the testosterone but none of the
4 gasoline. And also I want to say I own an alcohol free
5 campground, so I don't have the alcohol either. I do want to
6 stress that canoeists and kayakers statewide support any
7 effort you can come up with to keep these recreational
8 vehicles, these ATVs off of our riverbeds. It's not only
9 harmful as far as the peace and serenity but as you've heard,
10 it destroys the ecosystem as well. And hopefully you can do
11 something under I think it's Chapter 31 of the Water Code that
12 allows you some provision for safety, to provide safety. And
13 also I would like to say that we do support the San Marcos
14 River Foundation's effort to keep the rivers flowing 'cause we
15 got to have someplace to paddle as well.
16 Thanks a whole lot.
17 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: David Moldal.
18 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you Madame Chair and
19 Commissioners. My name is Sparky Anderson. I'm the State
20 program director of Clean Water Action. I'm also the senior
21 policy analyst for the Texas Community Project and a member of
22 Smart. First I want to address several issues real quick I'll
23 breeze over them and provide written comment to you in the
24 future.
25 First your role in water quality standards.
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1 This year the Texas Natural Resource Conversation Commission
2 submitted proposal to EPA to take up water -- excuse me, the
3 aquatic habitats and protections under the water quality
4 standards. This is all under the Clean Water Act. We feel
5 that there is an important role for this agency to play
6 because of your experience and your biologists in the field to
7 help TNRCC in making decisions on permits and other
8 enforcement issues regarding water quality and habitat
9 protection. We hope that you will take up this matter both as
10 policy as well as budget issue.
11 Next we want to commend Commissioner Fitzsimons
12 on his work with the Governor's Task Force in conservation.
13 We hope that his report that he was a part of doesn't become
14 shelved, particularly the components about water quality
15 protections. And his comments recently to a panel on this is
16 instrumental. I'll also provide you information about that.
17 I'll move on back to habitat protection. As
18 you know we've come to you before to talk about aquatic
19 vegetation management. We encourage the department to
20 continue its role in leadership role. I do have some concerns
21 however about the efforts of this agency to reach out for the
22 federal funds that are being proposed. Those funds may or may
23 not become available. Where this leads us back into perhaps a
24 chemical management and a chemical addiction to treat aquatic
25 vegetation in the state. We hope you don't fall unto that.
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1 There's also I think you need to pay close attention to the
2 liability cap, the limit that has been lifted to -- due to
3 legislation on SB 1335. This legislation allows -- will allow
4 lake managers to go out and spray chemicals into our Texas
5 lakes and rivers, into our state waters and have a limited
6 liability put on them for any damages. Staff was
7 sufficient -- did a sufficient job protecting our investment.
8 If there is a damage more than $2 million the State can recoup
9 that money. This does nothing to protect humans. There is
10 still that liability cap applies to humans and I think that's
11 a shame.
12 On State parks I just want to mention for Texas
13 Community Project we'll be working on the bond project. To
14 help see that bond pass we encourage to work with you. Also,
15 we encourage you to look into urban access for State parks.
16 We think more needs to be done there particularly where we can
17 team up with public transportation and getting people from
18 urban areas into our State parks.
19 Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Gilbert Chavez, could you be
21 ready.
22 MR. MOLDAL: Chairwoman Idsal, Commissioners,
23 Mr. Sansom. My name is Dave Moldal. I represent the Gulf
24 States Office of the Natural Wildlife Federation. We're the
25 nation's largest member supported conservation organization
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1 with more than 4 million members, some 46,000 of them in
2 Texas. I'm here today to thank you for your efforts thus far
3 and issue that may pose the single greatest threat to fish and
4 wildlife in Texas over the next 50 years, that's the
5 availability of water. As leaders of the State's primary
6 resource management agency, you know better than anyone how
7 much the health and survival of our fish and wildlife depend
8 on healthy rivers and streams, bays and estuaries and springs
9 and aquifers. As our state population grows, the pressure of
10 our water resources has intensified sometimes to the point
11 where species, habitat, and water resources -- excuse me and
12 entire ecosystems are at risk.
13 At the direction of the State legislature Texas
14 is now planning for how to meet its long-term water needs. In
15 a few months the Texas Water Development Board will present to
16 the legislature a state water plan laying out their
17 recommendations for ensuring our water future. Unfortunately
18 the planning process thus far has concentrated on how to
19 ensure water supplies for human needs but has largely ignored
20 the water requirements of fish and wildlife and the
21 environment generally. On behalf of the National Wildlife
22 Federation and conservationists everywhere I want to thank you
23 for your part you have played in bringing this issue of water
24 for wildlife to the public's attention. Thanks to the
25 diligent efforts of your staff, Dr. Larry McKinney, Cindy
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1 Loeffler and others, Executive Director Sansom has sent a
2 clear message to Texas Water Development Board last November
3 that the regional water planning process has largely failed to
4 consider or plan for environmental water needs and that this
5 represents a serious deficiency in most regional plans. This
6 was not the message that the people involved in the planning
7 process wanted to hear. But it is an issue that cannot be
8 ignored. Unfortunately because of the way that the Texas
9 Water Development Board interprets its legislative mandate,
10 the upcoming state water plan will reflect the shortcomings of
11 the regional water plans on the issue of environmental water
12 needs.
13 Our hope is that despite the release of the
14 water plan, the State will not commit itself to any
15 significant investment in new water infrastructure until this
16 problem of water environmental water needs can be revisited
17 and corrected in the next round of planning. We urge you to
18 continue your strong advocacy for water, for wildlife, and
19 devote the resources necessary to improving a water management
20 in Texas to satisfy those needs.
21 Texas Parks and Wildlife Sunset Bill directed
22 the agency to conduct a comprehensive inventory and develop a
23 plan for land and water conservation. We urge you to make
24 this task a high priority since it can lay the groundwork to
25 more environmentally sensitive management of our state's
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1 limited water resources.
2 Thank you for this opportunity to speak with
3 you and your continued efforts to protect our natural heritage
4 and preserve it for generations to come.
5 Thank you.
6 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Katherine Ray, could you be
7 ready.
8 MR. CHAVEZ: Good afternoon, Madame Chair and
9 Commissioners. I want to -- my name is Gilbert Chavez I'm
10 from Life Works a nonprofit community-based organization here
11 in Austin. I wanted to just start off with thanking the Texas
12 Parks and Wildlife Commission for the opportunity to speak
13 here today on the collaborating efforts of the community
14 outdoor outreach program and local nonprofit community-based
15 organizations here in Austin.
16 Like I said, my name is Gilbert Chavez and I'm
17 the program coordinator for the East Austin Male Involvement
18 Project here in East Austin. The East Austin Male Involvement
19 Project is a collaborating project as you have on your
20 handouts with Big Brothers Big Sisters, Communities and
21 Schools, Life Works, People's Community Clinic, providing
22 services to prevent schoolage pregnancies here in Johnston
23 High School.
24 Basically the collaborating effort with Texas
25 Parks and Wildlife has given us the opportunity to take our
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1 participants who traditionally have not had the opportunity to
2 get into the Texas parks, opportunity to go camping, fishing
3 and things like that. Basically traditionally pregnancy
4 prevention has been targeted to females and we were given the
5 task of finding new ways of getting males involved in the
6 prevention of pregnancies. So we do that through different
7 activities, different physical activities, sporting events,
8 ropes courses, volunteer projects, community-based type
9 volunteerism and service learning projects. And through the
10 grant provided through the community outreach programs we're
11 able to provide camping trips, which is our most popular
12 activity. We incorporate our objectives with the Texas Parks
13 and Wildlife's objectives by having different benchmarks for
14 our participants to achieve to be able to go on these camping
15 trips. We try to alternate our participants in making sure
16 that each one of our guys gets a chance of getting out into
17 the State parks. So I'm here today to just give support to
18 the community outreach programs and to thank you.
19 Thanks.
20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Janice Bizan -- something.
21 Bezanson, I think.
22 MS. RAY: Madame Chair, members of the
23 Commission, Andy, thank you so much for the invitation to
24 address you this afternoon. My name is Katherine Ray and I'm
25 here strictly as a citizen representing no one other than
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1 myself.
2 I had the opportunity to work with your staff
3 and with a number of organizations interested in your work in
4 preparation for this past legislative session and during the
5 session and I simply wanted to come and thank you for all the
6 hard work that it took to get through what was a very
7 difficult legislative session and to do so very successfully.
8 I personally believe that the work that was
9 done by many of you as members of this Commission and your
10 staff and your partner organizations has resulted in
11 positioning this department and the State in a very positive
12 place for planning the future of Texas. And really commend
13 you for that. As someone who cares about parks and about
14 recreation and about open space and wildlife and conservation
15 and the environment, I just appreciate all the work that it
16 took to pass that Sunset Bill and the other pieces of
17 legislation that effect this agency. So thank you very much
18 for all your work.
19 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I'm so sorry. Could you
20 pronounce your name.
21 MS. BEZANSON: You did really well. Madame
22 Chairman, members of the Commission, Mr. Sansom, I'm Janice
23 Bezanson just like the chairman said. I'm the executive
24 director of Texas Committee on Natural Resources which is a
25 30-year-old statewide conservation organization that has
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1 worked with Parks and Wildlife for many many years on many
2 many issues and have -- have benefitted greatly from doing so.
3 I'm also on the board of directors of the
4 natural area preservation association which is the largest
5 Texas based land trust in Texas. And in that role I'm very
6 aware of the private lands initiatives that Parks and Wildlife
7 has going. And I just have to take a moment to thank you for
8 the marvelous work that your land trust council, the land
9 trust coordinator and other private lands people are doing.
10 It really has made a difference to private landowners to know
11 about the possibilities, ways of protecting their land and
12 also the economic benefits of conservation easements and other
13 land protection strategies.
14 The land -- the private lands initiative,
15 though, is just one piece of an overall puzzle and -- if we're
16 going to protect the wildlife habitat of Texas. The other, of
17 course, is the ownership of public land and having that land
18 having extensive public lands. You've probably gotten tired
19 of hearing the statistic that Texas is 48th among states in
20 the amount of per capita money we spend on public lands and
21 the amount of lands we have. Our bottom land hardwood forest
22 90 percent of them have been converted to other uses. We have
23 a only a few percent of our original native prairie that's
24 still a native prairie. All the native ecosystem systems of
25 Texas have been degraded and converted to other uses and we
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1 need to be purchasing those examples of those few samples that
2 are left of these native habitats. We're excited about the
3 bond project, about the bonds that are on the November ballot.
4 We've budgeted some money to work to support them because we
5 think that getting that backlog of -- of repairs and all that
6 needs doing on the State parks is going to be a tremendous
7 asset to the department and to the state and we hope then that
8 when that's kind of gotten taken care of that the next round
9 of money can go to some additional acquisition of public lands
10 particularly for wildlife areas also for parks for our growing
11 urban areas, but also -- but primarily to protect samples of
12 those few remaining ecosystems that we have left to protect.
13 Thank you very much.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Kirk Cowan or Cohen.
15 MR. COWAN: Good afternoon, Madame Chair,
16 members of the commission. My name is Kirk Cowan and I am the
17 manager of resource planning and development for the Lower
18 Colorado River Authority. LCRA as you may know is a
19 conservation and reclamation district that was created by the
20 state. And what a lot of folks don't know is that one of our
21 charges is to manage and develop parks and recreation
22 facilities along with a number of other activities like the
23 generation of electric power, flood prevention, and also the
24 management of water and wastewater services.
25 My primary purpose in coming here today is to
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1 simply say thank you to the Commission for the wonderful
2 partnership that LCRA and the 58 counties that we serve and
3 represent have enjoyed with Parks and Wildlife and your staff
4 since 1935.
5 One of the earliest examples of that
6 partnership goes back to 1940 when LCRA donated land for the
7 development of Inks Lake State Park. However what I would
8 like to focus on for the balance of my time is the remarkable
9 achievements that this partnership has produced in the last
10 ten years. Since 1991 LCRA working in partnership with Parks
11 and Wildlife staff have developed a variety of public parks
12 and outdoor recreation opportunities to meet the growing
13 demand of Central Texas. Guided by a study that Parks and
14 Wildlife did on recreation in the State of Texas, LCRA in
15 partnership with Parks and Wildlife in numerous small river
16 communities along the Colorado developed a series of 26 public
17 access parks that provide the public with numerous
18 opportunities to enjoy the beauty and solitude of the Colorado
19 River.
20 Additionally Parks and Wildlife and LCRA have
21 jointly funded the development of 33 community parks in 21
22 counties in Central Texas. Most of these projects are located
23 in small rural communities and in some cases represent the
24 first park -- the first public park in those communities.
25 LCRA has utilized Parks and Wildlife's technical expertise to
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1 help plan and develop some of our flagship facilities
2 including the Canyon of the Eagles Nature Park on Lake
3 Buchanan and the Lake Bastrop North and South Shore Parks.
4 Most recently we partnered with the Parks and Wildlife to list
5 LCRA parks on the statewide reservation system.
6 In closing, LCRA is simply seeking your
7 continued support specifically through your grant and
8 technical assistance programs to help us meet the expanding
9 and dynamic outdoor recreation needs of today's Texans and
10 those of the future. We certainly look forward to that
11 continuing partnership and certainly do appreciate the
12 opportunity to speak to you today.
13 Thank you.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I believe that concludes all
15 the speakers. I have some public comment that was received
16 prior to the meeting for the record. Oh, I'm sorry. Did we
17 miss you?
18 MR. RANNE: Yes, ma'am.
19 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Well, come on up here. I
20 must -- did I -- did you -- did you submit one of these? Oh,
21 sorry, my mistake.
22 MR. RANNE: Madame Chairman, Commissioners,
23 Andy, Larry and Phil, I want to thank you-all for the
24 opportunity to be here. By the way, I'm the executive
25 director of freshwater angler association. I'm talking here
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1 tonight I want to thank you-all for you-all's grant. Because
2 of you-all's grant we were able to bring 2,852 kids at risk
3 kids out of the recreation centers in the City of Dallas and
4 bring them to Lake Athens at the freshwater fishing center.
5 Now, that was not just a picnic where you carry a bunch of
6 kids out and let them catch some fish and eat hot dogs. These
7 kids went to school. Most of them had never been fishing.
8 The sad part about it most of these kids have never had the
9 opportunity to go fishing with their families because in a lot
10 of cases it's not in their -- it's not financially where the
11 family can afford it and a lot of these kids are from single
12 parents. These kids if you look through the pictures I'm
13 passing out here, look at how attendant these kids are. How
14 excited they are, how much attention they pay. These kids are
15 going to be the future of Texas. If we don't get reach out
16 and get more and more of these kids involved, you're looking
17 at an explosion of some double air population by the year
18 2030, you're looking at, what, 40 million people here in the
19 State of Texas? Most of these kids, the minority groups will
20 be more and more and more. The challenge is going to be
21 greater. You got to have good science. We have to have
22 dedicated people to put on programs to reach out to these kids
23 and give them an opportunity to learn and to go fishing. More
24 than that, they need to know where these places are at where
25 they can go fishing. So with your help we were able to touch
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1 these kids. This is about 19 years of 18 or 19 years we've
2 been putting those on these youth outreach programs. This one
3 is best and most effective one. I'd like to commend the
4 people at the freshwater fishing center in Athens, Mona
5 Foreman, Alan Forsage, and all the volunteers. Those people
6 have done an excellent job. When you start talking about
7 putting a program together with 200 kids looking you in the
8 face and it's 95, 98 degrees and you're out in the shade where
9 there's no air conditioning. They earned their -- they earned
10 all of our respect and our appreciation. So I imagine my
11 light's about ready to come on here. But once again, I want
12 to say thank you-all. I was proud to be a part of that.
13 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you, Leonard.
14 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you. We have -- is
15 that -- do we have any more comments? Have I got everybody
16 now?
17 MS. ESTRADA: No, Madame Chair.
18 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: We have the following letters
19 for the record from Representative Tom Uher regarding shrimp
20 regulations and seabob season. We have a letter from Pete
21 Moore and Charles Patterson of the Valley Sportsman Club
22 regarding possession limit of red fish and speckled trout.
23 More funding for game wardens in Lower Laguna Madre. Game
24 fish designation for flounders and license fishing guides.
25 Let's see, license fishing guide should be allowed to take a
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1 limit of fish when fishing with a customer. And I believe
2 that's everything. Mr. Sansom, do we any other?
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: No, Madame
4 Chairman, not at this time.
5 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: If that is -- if we have no
6 more business that concludes the annual public meeting.
7 Thank you.
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1 THE STATE OF TEXAS )
2 COUNTY OF TRAVIS )
3 I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in and for
4 the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and
5 foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and correct
6 transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and Wildlife
7 Commission on August 29, 2001, in the Commission hearing room
8 of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin,
9 Travis County, Texas.
10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record was made by
11 me at the time of the public meeting and said stenographic
12 notes were thereafter reduced to computerized transcription
13 under my supervision and control.
14 WITNESS MY HAND this ____ day of ____________________,
15 2001.
16
17
18 ___________________________
KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589
19 Expiration Date: 12/2002
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20 Suite 220, Centre II
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21 (512) 328-5557
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1
2
3
4 ___________________________
KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL, CHAIRMAN
5
6 ___________________________
ERNEST ANGELO, JR. VICE-CHAIR
7
8 ___________________________
CAROL E. DINKINS
9
10 ___________________________
PHILIP MONTGOMERY
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12 ___________________________
DONATO RAMOS
13
14 ___________________________
JOHN AVILA, JR.
15
16 ___________________________
ALVIN L. HENRY
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18 ___________________________
JOSEPH FITZSIMONS
19
20 ___________________________
MARK E. WATSON, JR.
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