Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Public Hearing
May 31, 2001
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
1
7 BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 31st day of
8 May, 2001, there came to be heard matters under the
9 regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission
10 of Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas
11 Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas,
12 beginning at 9:15 a.m., to wit:
13
14
15 APPEARANCES:
THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
16
CHAIR: Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas
17 Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
Phil Montgomery, III, Dallas, Texas
18 Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
19 Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas
20 Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas
21
22 THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION:
Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and other personnel
23 of the Parks and Wildlife Department
24
25
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
2
1 OTHER APPEARANCES:
Mr. Walt Lewis
2 Clifton Shooting Club
564 CR 4150
3 Clifton, Texas 76634-5018
4 Mr. Ellis Gilleland
"Texas Animals"
5 POB 9001
Austin, Texas 78766
6
Mr. David K. Langford
7 Texas Wildlife Association
8 Mr. J.N. Rimes
Texas Deer Association
9 POB 1550
Jacksonville, Texas 75766
10
Mr. Jon Henderson
11 TDA
Box 221
12 Meridian, Texas 7665
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
3
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Good morning. I'd like to
2 call this meeting of the Parks and Wildlife Commission to
3 order.
4 Mr. Sansom, are you live?
5 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Mr. Chairman,
6 a public notice of this meeting containing all items on
7 the proposed agenda has been filed in the Office of the
8 Secretary of State as required by Chapter 551 of the
9 Government Code. This is referred to as the Open
10 Meetings Law and I would like for this action to be noted
11 in the official record of the meeting.
12 Ladies and gentlemen, I would, along the
13 Chair and members of the Commission, like to welcome you
14 here this morning. We appreciate each of you coming to
15 participate in our meeting. The Chairman, for the last
16 time today is in charge of the meeting, and I will as
17 always be assisting him as Sergeant at Arms. I want to
18 remind you that we've got sign-up cards out in the hall
19 for everyone who wishes to speak. And Chairman Bass will
20 call the names from these cards one at time and each of
21 you will be allowed to come forward and speak from this
22 podium in front of me one at a time. When you're name is
23 called, I would like to ask you to come to the podium,
24 state your name and who you represent, if anyone other
25 than yourself. The Chairman may wish to call the next
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
4
1 person in line and if you could be so kind as to come to
2 the back of the room and be ready, then we can move the
3 meeting along in an orderly fashion.
4 As all of you know, our -- our practice
5 here is to ask each person who wishes to address the
6 Commission, to -- to limit their remarks to three
7 minutes. I'll keep time with this little traffic clock I
8 have here. And let you know when your three minutes are
9 up. And when your time is up, I'd like to ask you to
10 resume your seat so that others may speak.
11 Your time can be extended if a
12 Commissioner asks you a question or if the Commissioners
13 discuss things among themselves, that will not be counted
14 against you. It's very, very important that you at all
15 times remain professional and not be argumentative or
16 critical of others because I will not tolerate that. I
17 would like to ask you that if you have anything to submit
18 to the Commission in written form that you give it to Ms.
19 Estrada here on my right and she'll make sure the
20 Commissioners get it. So once again, thank you very much
21 for being here today and we look forward to your
22 participation in our Commission meeting.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. The first
24 order of business will be approval of the minutes from
25 our previous meeting. Commissioner Dinkins, I believe
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
5
1 you had some corrections.
2 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Yes. Thank you, Mr.
3 Chairman. On Page 36, Line 14, 15, and 16 there were
4 several sentences that were missing a couple of words and
5 I wanted to ask that we insert those. This is from
6 remarks by Dr. Jerry Cooke and I have gone over these
7 sentences with him and confirmed the correct language.
8 In Line 14 there should be a period after "withdrawn."
9 And then insert "we have comments," and then in line 15
10 insert "they" before the last word in that line which is
11 "are." And then in Line 16 include a period after the
12 word "them" and capitalize "they." And I think that will
13 clarify his remarks.
14 And then on Page 39, Line 18 after
15 "currently" insert "have."
16 On Page 91, Line 12 there's a typo. It
17 says "if" rather than "it."
18 On Page 100, Line 5 the word "muscles" is
19 the wrong kind of "mussels." And then on Page 104 Mr.
20 Tomme Actkinson's name is spelled differently than it was
21 spelled on Page 55 when he initially spoke. And
22 similarly on page -- well, on Page 55 I marked how it
23 was. And then on Page 111, Line 22 there should be a
24 comma after "Cooper Lake."
25 On Page 113 "code" should be capitalized
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
6
1 and on Page 123 -- I'm sorry. That was Line 10 and on
2 Page 123, Line 15 "it's" should not have the apostrophe.
3 And with those corrections, Mr. Chairman, I move the
4 approval of the minutes.
5 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: A motion and a second.
7 All in favor?
8 ("Aye").
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed?
10 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Good job.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have the cleanest sets
12 of minutes of any agency in the State of Texas.
13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Well,
14 Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that I get paid extra for
15 reading them.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: That's right. She gets
17 two cookies at Wednesday lunch.
18 The next order of business is acceptance
19 of gifts to the department. A list of, you know, of
20 which has been distributed in the Commission meetings
21 book for review. Are there any questions or comments, or
22 if not the Chair would entertain a motion.
23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Move approval.
24 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. All
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
7
1 in favor.
2 ("Aye").
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing
4 none, motion passes.
5 TPWD DONATIONS OF $500 OR MORE
6 (Donors are listed in the following order:
7 Donor; Description; Purpose of Donation)
8
9 (1) First National Bank of Athens; CASH; Texas
Freshwater Fisheries Center
10 (2) ALCOA; Trailer; White Oak Creek WMA
(3) S.A.G., Inc.; Fuel; CCA/CPL Marine Development
11 Center
(4) Greater Mission COC; CASH; The Great Texas
12 Birding Classic
(5) Swarovski Optik North America; CASH; The Great
13 Texas Birding Classic
(6) Reliant Energy; CASH; The Great Texas Birding
14 Classic
(7) American Conservation & Education Society
15 (Houston Safari Club); CASH; Hunter Education
Program
16 (8) HAAS Outdoors, Inc.; Hunting Clothing; Hunter
Education Program
17 (9) Highland Industries; Hunter Orange Vests;
Hunter Education Program
18 (10) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.;
Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program
19 (11) Winchester Ammunition; Ammunition and
Literature; Hunter Education Program
20 (12) Walls Industries, Inc.; Hunter Orange Vests;
Hunter Education Program
21 (13) Big John's Soft Plastics; Fishing Lures;
Angler Education Program
22 (14) Shakespeare; Rod and Reel Combinations;
Angler Education Program
23 (15) Parks and Wildlife Foundation; CASH; State
Park Marketing Materials
24 (16) H Yturria Land & Cattle Company; CASH; Lone
Star Land Stewards
25 (17) Farm Credit Associations of Texas; CASH; Lone
Star Land Stewards
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
8
1 (18) 100 Club; Airboat & Trailer; Game Warden
Patrol Activities
2 (19) City of Bay City; CASH; Great Texas Birding
Classic
3 (20) American Electric Power; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Classic
4 (21) Travis Audubon Society; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Center
5 (22) Fancy Publications, Inc.; CASH; Great Texas
Birding Center
6 (23) ATSKO, Inc.; Booklets, Packets, Cleaning
Rods; Hunter Education Program
7 (24) Doskocil Manufacturing Company, Inc.;
Doskocil Gun Cases; Hunter Education Program
8 (25) Texas Bighorn Society; Food; Desert Bighorn
Sheep Project
9 (26) Friends of the Fulton Mansion; CASH; Travel
Expenses
10 TOTAL $118,205
11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Mr. Chairman,
12 if you could join me at the podium, at this time I would
13 like to -- to welcome our new Commissioners, Mr. Phil
14 Montgomery and Mr. Joseph Fitzsimons. I will know that
15 you will find as all of us who have served Parks and
16 Wildlife have found that it is a real privilege and we
17 appreciate your taking the time out of your lives to
18 become our newest volunteers.
19 This is the time of the meeting in which
20 we recognize what it is that makes this department
21 great. It's -- it's the people who work here and the
22 people who support our agency in all of its various
23 programs. This morning I have several employees that
24 have worked long and hard at Parks and Wildlife that I
25 would like to ask each of you to join me in recognizing.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
9
1 The first is Ed Werland.
2 Ed is an employee of Human Resources
3 Division here and he's worked at Parks and Wildlife for
4 25 years. He began as a registered architect. He has
5 worked in the planning and designs area as a landscape
6 architect and park planner. In 1979 he became a project
7 manager in master planning. But over the years Ed has
8 really distinguished himself as a -- as a sort of a
9 master trainer and teacher. We loaned him for a while,
10 unfortunately, to the Governor's -- for us, but good for
11 them -- to the Governor's Center for Management
12 Development where he established several from programs in
13 the Governor's office which still exist today. He
14 brought his expertise back as a training specialist
15 and -- and worked for a time as -- in that function in
16 the Public Safety Branch for State Parks. He worked as a
17 training specialist in the Human Resources Division and
18 he's been a major force in developing throughout our
19 culture what we call purchase driven team building. This
20 effort on Ed's part has increased the productive of many
21 of the teams at Park and Wildlife and teamwork is of our
22 highest values. For this service, Ed had been recognized
23 recently in May as a certified senior professional in
24 Human Resources which is the highest credential among HR
25 professionals. Please recognize from Human Resources
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
10
1 with 25 years of service to Parks and Wildlife, Ed
2 Werland.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. WERLAND: Where do I stand?
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Right between us.
6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks Ed,
7 congratulations.
8 (Applause.)
9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: One of my
10 closest friends in the department is a woman who is a
11 valued professional, a good friend, and -- and one of
12 those people who always has a smile for you no matter
13 what the difficulties that we're going through.
14 Toni Oldfather has been here 20 years.
15 She came to work in Coastal Fishery, Inland Fisheries in
16 1981. At that time we -- we had a hatchery program
17 within Inland Fisheries which later became a branch of
18 the old Fisheries Division. And while Toni was there as
19 an administrative technician, the renovations to the San
20 Marcos Hatchery were completed and the John Wilson Fish
21 Hatchery was constructed, which began the sequence of
22 events that -- that ultimately resulted in both Sea
23 Center and the Texas Freshwater Fishery Center as the
24 state -- most state-of-the-art hatcheries perhaps in the
25 world. In 1989 Toni went to work for Larry McKinney in
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
11
1 Resource Protection as his Administrative Assistant and
2 then later in the decade became the Budget Management,
3 the grants coordinator, the LBB coordinator, and the
4 Legislative Liaison for the Resource Protection. When
5 she came to work in 1981 she thought she'd only be here a
6 year and thankfully she's still here today with 20 years
7 of service. Toni Oldfather from Resource Protection.
8 (Applause.)
9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: How are you
10 doing, Toni?
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: It's been a long year.
12 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: It's been a
13 long year Lee said.
14 MS. OLDFATHER: Yes, it has. It's been
15 getting longer.
16 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks Toni.
17 (Applause.)
18 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: You-all will
19 remember several years ago at our employee awards
20 ceremonies which are coming up, by the way, this year in
21 August, we recognized Annice Storey for her work in East
22 Texas. She began work at the Department in April of 1981
23 at what was at that time called the Management Research
24 Station in Tyler. And it's interesting to note that
25 yesterday in our discussions about quail the question was
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
12
1 answered -- the question was asked well what about
2 release birds. At that time the facility that we managed
3 in Tyler was basically a hatchery that produced various
4 species of game birds for release including quail, turkey
5 and pheasant. And of course as -- as we have seen over
6 the years, the limiting factor is habitat and so that
7 program has no longer been there. But with Annice's help
8 and she is basically responsible for the grounds and
9 facilities of what we now call the Nature Center which
10 will be in partnership with the Tyler Woods and Waters
11 Club, the East Texas Ecological Foundation, the principal
12 nature center for outreach in East Texas. Annice has
13 been highly involved in this process. She's a hunter
14 education instructor and she was promoted in 1997 as a
15 Wildlife Technician. She lives in Tyler and she takes
16 care of one of the neatest little facilities that we've
17 got in our system. Please recognize with 20 years of
18 service Annice Storey from the Wildlife Division.
19 (Applause.)
20 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
21 Congratulations.
22 MS. STOREY: Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Congratulations.
24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: There's a
25 great video of Annice driving a tractor that I want
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
13
1 you-all all to see at some point.
2 MS. STOREY: Thank you.
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
4 Congratulations, Annice.
5 MS. STOREY: Thank you.
6 (Applause.)
7 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Perhaps,
8 Mr. Bass, one of the greatest gifts to the future of
9 Texas during your long service here has been the creation
10 of the Big Bend Ranch and today we have a great privilege
11 of recognizing two neighbors of the Big Bend Ranch who
12 have donated lands to the park and increased its legacy
13 and gift to the future. I want to introduce you first to
14 Julius and Marilyne Dieckert of College Station. They
15 are professors who have made many sacrifices in their
16 lives. On -- on basically state salaries they acquired
17 seven sections of land adjacent to the Solitario, which
18 is one of the most significant geological formations in
19 America and they have donated this property known as the
20 Masada Ridge Wilderness to the department.
21 I know of no other lands within the
22 holdings of the department where someone actually used
23 their own funds to come in and purchase property along
24 the boundary with the intent of donating it to Texas
25 Parks and Wildlife. Please recognize Drs. Julius and
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
14
1 Marilyne Dieckert of College Station, Texas.
2 (Applause.)
3 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Please come
4 forward. These are our conservation heroes. Thank you.
5 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you.
6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you.
7 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you all very much.
8 DR. DIECKERT: Thank you.
9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Another family
10 that was a neighbor of ours at Big Bend Ranch were John
11 and Beryl Rice. I remember the first time I met John
12 Rice was at the old airport in Marfa. John had this
13 little bitty helicopter that at quite an advanced age he
14 was still flying back and forth from Marfa to the ranch
15 headquarters at La Mota Mountain. And he would be out
16 there with a little strobe light of some kind making sure
17 that the -- that the helicopter was properly tuned so he
18 could fly it out to the ranch where he spent the last
19 years of his life there in Marfa with his wife Beryl who
20 is an artist of note in the area. Mr. and Mrs. Rice were
21 great neighbors. They were at the event that we
22 celebrated the closing of the purchase of Big Bend Ranch,
23 they were there. And thanks to the wonderful efforts of
24 people like Delton Daugherty who is here today and others
25 Luis Armendariz, the Rices continued throughout their
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
15
1 lives to be neighbors. They passed away, unfortunately,
2 as -- and left this ranch to Big Bend Ranch State Park,
3 the La Mota Ranch. For those of who have been to Big
4 Bend, La Mota is probably one of its most prominent
5 features and it can be seen from our Sauceda
6 headquarters. We shared that bequest with Mrs. Rice's
7 son, Jim Donnell, who is here with us today. And in a
8 wonderful transaction of where he continued that spirit
9 of generosity, an additional 13,000 acres of some of the
10 most beautiful property in the Trans Pecos have been
11 donated to the park.
12 La Mota Mountain, as I mentioned, which
13 is -- which is now completely within the Big Bend Ranch
14 can be seen from headquarters and Terneros Creek is one
15 of the most spectacular Cottonwood galleries anywhere in
16 Texas. Please recognize Jim Donnell who is here today
17 with us.
18 (Applause.)
19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: And I believe
20 he has his wife here as well.
21 MR. DONNELL: Thank you.
22 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you. Hi,
23 Ms. Donnell. How are you? Nice to see you. Thanks for
24 coming.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
16
1 MR. DONNELL: Thank you.
2 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks,
3 Ms. Donnell.
4 (Applause.)
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Win, win.
6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Members and
7 Mr. Chairman, the Southern States Boating Law
8 Administrators Association is comprised of 18 states, the
9 commonwealth of Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands. This
10 association was created to promote boating safety and
11 achieve uniformity in boating laws from state to state.
12 This is accomplished by establishing standards, safety
13 education, and boating enforcement practices. This month
14 at the 40th annual conference of the Southern States
15 Boating Law Administrators Association, one of finest
16 Texas game wardens along with officers from each of the
17 other member states was recognized for his
18 accomplishments.
19 Edward Tanuz graduated from the 40th Game
20 Warden Academy in 1987 and went to work immediately in
21 Galveston County. He's worked to develop an educational
22 program in his area to train local law enforcement
23 personnel in marine safety and devotes much of his time
24 to community service related to water safety. Search and
25 rescue efforts are a common occurrence in the Galveston
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
17
1 Bay system and Edward has been -- he's always in the
2 water when the need arises.
3 One recent incident occurred on July 4th
4 when Edward was patrolling the Texas City Dike, observed
5 a woman fall off a float about 30 yards from shore and
6 began to struggle in the water. He grabbed a life
7 jacket, he swam to her and grabbed her and pulled her
8 back to shore and was credited for saving her life. Is
9 it my privilege and honor to present to you the 2001
10 Texas Marine Safety Officer of the year Game Warden
11 Edward Tanuz.
12 (Applause.)
13 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
14 Congratulations.
15 MR. TANUZ: Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Congratulations.
17 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thanks.
18 MR. TANUZ: Thank you.
19 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: We never tire
20 of recognizing our partner Dow Chemical which has done so
21 much for Parks and Wildlife. Today we have the privilege
22 of recognizing a new partner in that great corporation,
23 Dow AgroSciences. They've assisted in a major Parks and
24 Wildlife quail research project in East Texas called
25 Pastures for Upland Birds. And it's particularly
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
18
1 fitting, I think, that we although unplanned, that we
2 recognize them today after all of our discussion
3 yesterday about the habitat needs of quail and the issues
4 related to the survival of quail as a -- as a specifies
5 for us to use and enjoy.
6 This project is designed to evaluate the
7 wildlife benefits and cost effectiveness of actually
8 converting coastal bermuda grass fields back to native
9 pastures. In order to make that possible, Dow
10 AgroSciences contributed about $10,000 worth of herbicide
11 which along with donations from the National Fish and
12 Wildlife Foundation, the Cross Timbers Chapter of Quail
13 Unlimited, and local farmers we're trying to determine
14 whether or not that can actually be done.
15 My colleague Matt Wagner, who's the
16 wildlife division biologist who designed this project is
17 here today to help present the award. And I would like
18 for Matt and Dow employees Rick Borgogni, Daryl Evans and
19 Ron Dipprey to come forward at this time and receive our
20 thanks for their contribution to this important project.
21 (Applause.)
22 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Hey, guys.
23 Thanks, guys. Thank you very much. Thank you very
24 much. Hey, Matt, congratulations old friend.
25 MR. WAGNER: Step back here, there may be
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
19
1 a little bit more room.
2 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: This a limited
3 edition print which is given to those who support our
4 wildlife research program and a certificate of
5 appreciation.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: This company is the best
7 corporate partner we have -- bar none.
8 MR. NOTTINGHAM: One, two, three.
9 Thanks. Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Thank you
12 all. I guess I hoped this day would never come. For the
13 last six years Lee Bass has been my boss. I've never
14 lasted that long with any other supervisor, so, Lee, I
15 guess Nona and I both are grateful to you that I'm still
16 getting a paycheck. I would like to begin what I hope is
17 some things that you would like and enjoy and remember us
18 by with the video that Mark Southern and Bruce Biermann
19 have prepared for us this morning.
20 (Farewell videotape played.)
21 (Applause.)
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you all very much.
23 I promised myself I wouldn't choke up today but you're
24 testing me. The -- I guess, you know, the last year or
25 so I -- I have given some thought to what I would say at
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
20
1 this moment and -- and I'm sure I could go on for hours
2 of the things that -- that I'm very proud of that -- that
3 we've accomplished here in the last 12 years. But
4 I'll -- I'll avoid that, I think we all -- we all share
5 those, those same -- those same thoughts of -- of
6 accomplishment and pride.
7 I would like to thank a lot of people.
8 The employees, you guys and girls make my job look easy
9 really. It really is the -- the finest group of -- of
10 conservation agency people, I think, anywhere. I -- I
11 wish it was possible that our former Governor and now
12 President could take us all to Washington 'cause we could
13 straighten some things out. I'd like to thank my
14 family. They've been very supportive and sacrificed, you
15 know, a lot of things to -- so that I could do this.
16 The -- I guess the -- the one -- one or two key thoughts
17 that I would like to leave -- leave everybody with in
18 their mind is that, you know, I -- I think that when we
19 have tried to work with our constituents, our
20 stakeholders in a cooperative manner being sensitive to
21 their needs, their -- their fears, tried to build a -- a
22 feeling of mutual trust and respect is -- is when we have
23 accomplished the most long-term good. It's a -- it's a
24 method that I hope every -- I hope this agency never
25 abandons. And I'd like to say I've enjoyed this. It's
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
21
1 been very satisfying. And I think it's been satisfying
2 because what -- what we do here is important.
3 I think -- I think all of us recognize
4 that there is something about the out of doors that --
5 that is an integral part of the human psyche and -- and
6 that we all need that. I think there are a lot of urban
7 people, urban kids that don't understand that and I think
8 it's very important we continue to try to do everything
9 we can to -- to help them realize that and open their
10 eyes. Thank you-all. It's been fun. It's been a good
11 ride.
12 (Applause.)
13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, perhaps
14 you would indulge the members each of the Commission to
15 make a public good-bye to you. And I will go first and
16 say that I think indeed you have left Texas a better
17 place. And it's been a great joy to serve on the
18 Commission with you and we will miss your leadership, but
19 look forward to seeing you whenever you can give us more
20 time.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
22 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Lee --
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: I feel like a Wake. This
24 is --
25 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I know. You were
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
22
1 worried about your composure. I lost mine.
2 Lee, thank you for all you've done for the
3 State of Texas. If people really understood the amount
4 of time that Mr. Bass has dedicated and his family too to
5 this wonderful department and to our wonderful state
6 there would be no shortage of gratitude for his efforts.
7 I really do believe that -- that the job you've done is
8 the definition of what all citizens should do for their
9 state. You've done it in your way in the best possible
10 way. And you've -- making our job now that you're --
11 you're going to be leaving, but you're leaving the job we
12 still have yet to do, I'm in my garbled syntax here, a
13 much easier job and -- and I don't see the focus that
14 you've brought to the Commission over the past 12 years
15 changing too much.
16 You've -- you've given a long-term view
17 for us to follow and -- and we should be very grateful to
18 you. Thank you.
19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Lee, I have to say
20 it's been a great pleasure to serve with you and I think
21 you're been a role model to -- to all of us and to all
22 the people that have observed the leadership that you
23 brought to this organization. And the good that you've
24 done for the State and we're going to miss you a lot.
25 And I know you'll go on to do a lot of great things and
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
23
1 otherwise and you've done so many other things for the
2 State already. Again, it's been an honor to be -- to be
3 working with you.
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Ernie.
5 COMMISSIONER WATSON: I don't want to be
6 last. And I think with what we've seen and what
7 everybody has said and we said last night, you know,
8 really has said it all, but, you know, I've only be here
9 two years, Lee, but you've been an inspiration to me.
10 This has been a wonderful, wonderful experience for
11 myself and -- and it's really due to a great part to the
12 direction that you've given us and the involvement that
13 you've, you know, had with all of us. And I tell you
14 what, we're really going to miss you. And I tell you
15 what, I hope you of come back soon. Thank you.
16 MR. FITZSIMONS: Mr. Chairman, I know it's
17 my first day as a Commissioner and not as -- probably not
18 very smart to start when the -- when the greatest
19 chairman as the Commission has probably ever known is
20 leaving. That's bad timing on my part. But I've -- I've
21 seen you work and as the video pointed out, ten years ago
22 things were not necessarily going to turn out this well.
23 And you made the difference. And I'm getting choked up,
24 but I can tell you I was there and there was a time when
25 we were in danger of this department becoming
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
24
1 disconnected from the very resource it's committed to,
2 and especially from the people that live on that
3 resource. And you changed that. You made -- you made
4 the right things happen and I want to thank you for
5 your -- for your loyalty and your commitment to the
6 resource and to the people of this department. Thank
7 you.
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thanks.
9 COMMISSIONER AVILA: I guess I'll go next
10 and say -- take it a different direction and -- and --
11 and say to you how many ways can so many people say they
12 care a great deal about -- about you personally. And I
13 think all the things that we've said about your
14 leadership and the greatest things that you've done for
15 the State are indeed true and accurate. But -- but the
16 thing that -- that -- that has meant the most to me is --
17 is -- is to see the environment and -- and -- and the --
18 the attitude and the atmosphere that -- that is in this
19 department and throughout the far reaches of the State
20 whether it be a state park or wildlife management area
21 where I've gone and said these many -- that many people
22 just can't be that happy, and -- and -- but they are.
23 And -- and I think -- I think that starts from the top
24 and -- with you, Lee, and -- and the way that you've
25 engaged us all and got us to be part of this magnificent
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
25
1 team and -- and that legacy will go on for quite some
2 time.
3 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I have the least
4 background here. I'm going to leave the most eloquent
5 speaker to last, but I do want to tell you that --
6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: I'm used to be being
7 last, Phil.
8 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: But I -- I will
9 say I -- it's very impressive to me to walk in new and
10 see a government agency work in a cooperative voluntary
11 manner that's befitting a free society and this is a real
12 model to me. I've served on other government agency
13 boards and as a citizen, businessman, I've been exposed
14 to many, many branches of government and this more than
15 any I've seen has that spirit that's befitting a free
16 society and appropriate and everyone turns that back to
17 your leadership and your philosophy and gives you
18 credit for it. So hats off to you. I think that's a
19 very profound thing and it should have a long, long
20 legacy.
21 And the other observation I would add I
22 think more than anyone here I see the cumulative impact
23 of years of good leadership walking and seeing a slice of
24 it very quickly with no background, and it's quite
25 impressive. I hope you're very proud and I hope your
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
26
1 family is very proud of it. That does come from
2 leadership. It's doesn't happen by accident. So it's a
3 pleasure to have served with you for a day and good luck
4 to you and thank you for all you've done for the
5 department. For Texas.
6 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Lee, when I was
7 appointed to the Commission everyone told me how much I
8 would enjoy this assignment and they were right. And
9 that's largely in part because of you and Andy and others
10 that set the -- the leadership stage for the rest of us.
11 You welcomed us here, you showed us by example what it
12 was like to -- to lead and to be a team leader and to
13 contribute to the welfare of the people of this State and
14 we all applaud you for that.
15 But I think all of us would jointly,
16 separately as well as jointly thank you for not only your
17 leadership but for your friendship and you've meant a
18 great deal to all of us. You will mean a great deal to
19 us. I'm delighted that the family is here to -- to
20 witness this moment with us. It's -- I spoke to my wife
21 this morning and she said you sound kind of sad. I said,
22 yeah, I'm a little sad. She said, why? I said, well
23 this will be Lee's last meeting and she said, yeah, you
24 got a right to be a little sad. 'Cause you've done a
25 great job for the State and you've been quite a leader
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
27
1 for all of us and we want you to know how much we
2 appreciate you. So thank you for everything.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Thank all of
4 you for -- for a lot of kind words and -- and I -- I
5 would be remiss not to mention how much it means to me
6 that one of the people in the audience today is -- is Tim
7 Hixon who was appointed by Governor Clements the same
8 time I was to this Commission so many years ago and we
9 were wild-eyed rookies and -- and -- and didn't quite
10 know what we were getting into. But I appreciate deeply
11 Tim making the effort to -- to come up from San Antonio
12 today. And as I -- as I told him in the hall earlier
13 that I'm -- I'm looking forward to finally gaining
14 membership to what is the ultimate outdoorsman's club in
15 the State of Texas which is the Former Commissioner's
16 Club. And all you too can be a member at some point in
17 time, but I've had the privilege of -- I counted it up,
18 it's amazing I've sat up here with 25 different
19 individuals counting our two new Commissioners this
20 morning and I have to say that I've enjoyed a
21 relationship with each and every one of them and it's --
22 it's been a wonderful culture that -- that was here long
23 before I arrived on -- on this Commission of -- of
24 developing bonds of friendship, mutual respect even
25 when -- when there was disagreement on -- on various
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
28
1 policy issues. And a very strong nonpartisan spirit
2 of -- of doing the job we were appointed to come here to
3 do, and -- and -- and putting personal interest and
4 biases aside. So it's -- it's -- it's been fun, but --
5 but it's -- it's a fun outdoorsman's club that I'm
6 looking forward to be a full-time member of now. So,
7 anyway, thanks, Tim.
8 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM:
9 Mr. Chairman, I can assure that everyone in the room and
10 everyone who works throughout this department shares the
11 feelings and thoughts that have been expressed today.
12 Every employee who has marveled at your command of the
13 most arcane and complicated scientific and financial
14 information, who's understood the depth of your support
15 of our work and who has experienced the kind and
16 thoughtful humanity that make you a gentleman. On behalf
17 of all the employees, nearly 3,000 men and women who work
18 in this great department, I want to give you something to
19 remember us by that was created by an employee. This is
20 an original pastel of South Texas white tail deer done by
21 Rob Fleming for you.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: Finally,
25 members of the Commission, ladies and gentlemen, I know
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
29
1 that each of you has taken note of the beautiful new
2 conference room that Scott Boruff whose team of designers
3 and craftsmen have created to provide us with a badly
4 needed new capability here and a lovely view of the
5 outdoors from our lobby. I would like at this time,
6 Madam Vice-Chairman, to ask for a suspension of the rules
7 and invite each one of the members of the Commission,
8 Ramona, Perry and Ramoncita to pause for a moment in
9 recess and go out and unveil the marker in the hall which
10 dedicates our new Texas Parks and Wildlife facility as
11 the Lee Bass Conference Room. Please.
12 (Applause and dedication of new
13 conference room.)
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: Can we have a quorum,
15 please? They don't want to mess up my last meeting. All
16 right. I think we have a quorum, so we will get going.
17 Get down to business here.
18 The first order of business would be the
19 approval of the agenda which we have before us. Do we
20 have a motion?
21 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: So moved.
22 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and second, all in
24 favor.
25 ("Aye").
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
30
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion carries. Thank
2 you.
3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 1: CONSENT AGENDA
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Action Item 1, the Consent
5 Agenda, we do not have a consent agenda today, so the
6 Chair will not hear that. And which brings us to the
7 2001-2002 Migratory Bird Proclamation. Vernon Bevill,
8 please.
9 AGENDA ITEM NO. 2: 2001-2002 MIGRATORY GAME BIRD
10 PROCLAMATION
11 MR. BEVILL: Mr. Chairman, members of the
12 Commission, my name is Vernon Bevill. I'm the program
13 director for the game bird program. Today is the
14 beginning of the season setting process for migratory
15 game birds for 2001-2002.
16 Every year we have a little calendar shift
17 to deal with. This year we are bringing before you a
18 proposed change in the morning dove season regulations
19 and then we will be proposing adjustments to other
20 seasons as well.
21 For Teal we anticipate the Fish and
22 Wildlife Service will grant another 16-day season. We
23 try to set that season to begin as late as possible
24 because of the Teal migration to Texas favors a later
25 start date this year. We recommend opening the Saturday
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
31
1 the 15th of September and running to the 30th of
2 September. For Rail and Gallinules and Woodcock and
3 those specifies, we try to establish those seasons to
4 configure around the basic waterfowl seasons to the
5 greatest extent that we can so that opportunity
6 exists when -- when migratory bird hunters are in the
7 field.
8 The white-winged season along the border,
9 again, we are recommending the first two complete
10 weekends in the month of September as we do each year.
11 For Mourning dove we proposed a change to
12 be considered going back to the 12-bird bag limit and a
13 70-day season and that would be a change from the 15-bird
14 bag and 60-day season that was adopted back in 1994. In
15 a survey that we recently conducted and had 3,000 --
16 about 3,000 responses from various dove hunters across
17 the State, one of the things we tried to look at was --
18 was whether or not we were providing season opportunity
19 in general that was satisfactory to dove hunters. And as
20 you can see from this slide, dove hunters in general are
21 very satisfied with the -- with the overall hunting
22 opportunity for this species.
23 When we looked at the issue of setting a
24 12-bird bag by the various zones, we received a
25 considerable amount of comment from the survey. You
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
32
1 would note that in the Central and South zones there was
2 a significant difference between the favorability of the
3 12-bird bag over the 15-bird bag. This is actually a
4 reversal in the Central zone of a survey of several years
5 ago. In the North zone where the 15-bird bag has been
6 very popular over the years, frankly I was a little
7 surprised that it was almost a 50/50 split between --
8 between the two options in the survey. We received far
9 more public comment from e-mails and letters and
10 telephone calls and that sort of comment this year on the
11 dove season proposal than we received in any other time.
12 Almost 500 total comments. As you can see, again,
13 there's a favorability and that comment in the Central
14 and South zones where the comments were directed zonally
15 to a 12-bird bag, 70-day season; however, in the North
16 zone there is a significant percentage of people who
17 favored the 15-bird bag remaining in their 60-day
18 season.
19 In the -- another segment of the survey we
20 tried to look at where we might put the extra ten days if
21 the Commission chooses to go back to the 12-bird, 70-day
22 option. Surprisingly respondents from the North zone
23 indicated a favorability for a late season. They have
24 never had a late season segment, to my knowledge, in the
25 North zone, it's always been a straight through season.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
33
1 So we were a little confused, if you -- if you will, by
2 that response rate, but I wanted to bring that before
3 you.
4 In the Central zone when we went to the
5 15-bird bag and shortened the season we took the ten days
6 in that Central zone from the end of the first season
7 segment. And -- and as you can see in this slide, the
8 preponderance of comment and a significant difference in
9 the -- in the response rate of favored putting those days
10 back in the -- in the first segment. But you can also
11 see that there was -- when you combined the -- the two
12 questions about the late season segment it amounts to a
13 little over 50 percent of the total response. And again,
14 in the South zone there was significant comment on the --
15 where to put the days and with the preponderance of that
16 comment coming at the end of the second split.
17 So the potential season that we -- we put
18 together on this slide before you would be leaving the
19 North zone with a 15-bird bag and a 60-day continuous
20 season and the Central zone adding the ten days back to
21 the end of the first season segment. And in the South
22 zone adding the ten days to the end of the second season
23 segment. But those are just potential configurations of
24 the use of those ten days.
25 And then the staff recommendation with
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
34
1 changes is before you here. Mr. Chairman, I would be
2 glad to entertain any questions from the Commission.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there any questions of
4 Mr. Bevill prior to public comment?
5 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Chairman, I
6 wonder if you might explain the survey. Who was -- to
7 whom those 15,000 were sent, how those were selected.
8 MR. BEVILL: We selected -- because we
9 had -- now have the HIP survey in place, we -- we
10 directed that survey at dove hunters across the State and
11 it was a randomized sample. And we ran a large sample
12 knowing we would -- in a -- in a one mailing deal we
13 would probably get a fairly low response rate, but we
14 wanted that response rate to be high enough to give us
15 significant statistical values. So that's the way we
16 pursued it and it did give us a significant percent.
17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: That's a pretty high
18 response rate for that type of survey.
19 MR. BEVILL: Yes.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any other questions?
21 The chair would entertain public comment.
22 Walt Lewis, if you would come forward and Ellis
23 Gilleland, if you would be prepared to speak next.
24 MR. LEWIS: Howdy and good morning. My
25 name is Walt Lewis. I'm from Bosque County. I live five
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
35
1 miles west of Clifton, Texas. I represent the Clifton
2 Shooting Club and many other avid dove hunters from
3 Bosque County. We are in the Central dove hunting zone.
4 I'm here to speak in favor of the proposed change
5 reducing the bag limit of doves to 12 and adding days
6 back to late October.
7 In the early '90s your surveys indicated
8 that 80 percent of dove hunters only hunt the first two
9 weekends. That was one of the considerations, I believe,
10 in increasing the bag limit to 15 and taking off the
11 latter part of October. Many of us believed and voiced
12 three things. A, these two-weekend-a-year hunters would
13 have to be in a heck of a lot of doves to get 15; B, they
14 would have to be darn good shots and then meanwhile back
15 at the ranch those of us whose passion is dove hunting
16 were losing two of the best weeks of the season. That's
17 been borne out by more current surveys and statistics,
18 and I believe those statistics indicate that only 3
19 percent of the dove hunters have acquired a bag limit of
20 15 since it was installed.
21 Ladies and gentlemen, please return to us
22 those late days of October cool crisp when those big
23 purple-footed doves from North Texas, Oklahoma, and
24 Kansas are coming down, that's the heart of the season.
25 Please give it back to us. Thank you very much.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
36
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Lewis. I
2 thank your clear and concise comments.
3 Mr. Gilleland and if David Langford be
4 prepared to speak next.
5 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
6 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen. I'm speaking for
7 Texas Animals which is an Internet organization devoted
8 to animal rights, animal welfare. I have given you a
9 handout. It is a newspaper clipping from the Houston
10 Chronicle dated the 9th of May and it deals with the
11 accidents, the hunting accidents that occurred in the
12 last year, 2000.
13 You will notice I've marked in yellow at
14 the upper left that seven people were killed hunting last
15 year in Texas. You'll notice the yellow mark section in
16 the lower right where it says that 29 percent of the
17 seven people that were killed were killed dove hunting.
18 If you take 29 percent, which is about one-third of
19 seven -- correct me Mr. Montgomery if I'm wrong -- the
20 numbers come out to be two approximately. So my plea to
21 you is to simply cancel dove hunting and save the two
22 lives of two people that would be killed this year dove
23 hunting.
24 Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. It might cost
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
37
1 nine lives up here.
2 Mr. Langford.
3 MR. LANGFORD: Good morning, Mr. Chairman,
4 members of the Commission. I'm David Langford Texas
5 Wildlife Association. The comments that have been made
6 to me for the last -- or just about every time that --
7 that this department has considered this have been
8 virtually unanimous that pretty much support the staff
9 recommendation that -- and exactly along the geographic
10 lines with the proposed in the North and the Central and
11 the South.
12 However, yesterday some of the comments
13 about the late season opening before on the Saturday
14 before Christmas, that -- that also seems okay, but --
15 and mainly because of our -- for both of those 70/12 and
16 the -- the Saturday before Christmas would be biased
17 because of our involvement with the Texas Youth Hunting
18 Program with the department. It gives us more
19 opportunities to take kids to -- to experience the
20 heritage of hunting. And a lot of people, some of the
21 comments are always about not -- not having doves that
22 late in the season. Well, listen, the kids involved in
23 the Texas Youth Hunting Program they're not interested
24 in -- in -- in a bag limit and just the opportunity to
25 involve them in the outdoors is what we're looking for
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
38
1 and the extra ten days certainly would help that.
2 If the Sergeant at Arms will -- will not
3 throw me out I want to again appreciate how much Texas
4 Wildlife Association has appreciated your service,
5 Chairman Bass. And the comments by Commissioner
6 Fitzsimons were exactly on target. This is a different
7 agency than it was ten years ago as evidenced by the
8 event last night. This -- this department and the
9 regulated community have agreed that there's a way to
10 work together to work on all these natural resource
11 related problems and we appreciate your leadership into
12 that -- into that situation. That's terrific. It was a
13 great event last night. I would recommend for the record
14 for the new chairman to not hold the next one in enemy
15 territory. Thank you.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe that's -- that
17 is all of the public comments on this item. Any
18 questions for Mr. Bevill or discussion at the
19 Commission?
20 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: You need a motion?
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Certainly.
22 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: If there's no further
23 discussion, I move that for the Central and South zones,
24 a 70-day 12-bird bag season with the addition of ten days
25 to the winter season to open on the Saturday preceding
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
39
1 Christmas Day of each year. For the North zone, maintain
2 the 60-day 15-bird bag limit and hope -- and hold scoping
3 sessions next fall in the North zone to gauge interest in
4 instituting a winter season there.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion. Discussion?
6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Did that -- were you
7 including the Central zone in the ten days?
8 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Yes. The South and
9 Central zones.
10 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Before the
11 Christmas, -- the opening before Christmas in the Central
12 zone also?
13 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Yes. Have them the
14 same.
15 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I don't
16 understand. Is the Central zone the first part or the
17 second part of the season?
18 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Second part.
19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Since the Central
20 zone has a shorter season, only being ten days at that
21 time, I'm not sure but leaving it where it is would be
22 better because the later part of it, I think, is -- is
23 better from the standpoint of availability of the birds.
24 And from the youth standpoint, I think people who go home
25 for Christmas holidays are going to be able to take part,
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
40
1 you know, all the way through the January 6th closing
2 anyway.
3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Do I hear that you
4 want to change the Central zone to leaving it the 26th
5 and adding ten days in the Central zone?
6 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: No. No. Leave it
7 -- yes, the South zone as you stated and the Central
8 zone to be December 26th through January 6th for the
9 second season.
10 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: The ten days to
11 the first portion?
12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Yes, and add the ten
13 days to the first portion.
14 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: That's what I said, I
15 believe. There's some confusion here.
16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: That's what I just
17 want to clarify.
18 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Let me reread my
19 motion here. Central and South zones, 70-day, 12-bird
20 bag season adding ten days to the winter season to open
21 on the Saturday preceding Christmas Day of each year.
22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: But the only ten
23 days we've got to add would be in the South zone.
24 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: And the Central
25 zone.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
41
1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, but the
2 Central zone the ten days are added to the first part of
3 the season, not the second part.
4 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Hum. Well, then, I
5 --
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe --
7 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: So there's only --
8 there's only ten days for winter season in the Central
9 zone and I'm suggesting --
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe her motion is to
11 add them to the second split rather than the first.
12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Even in the Central
13 zone?
14 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: That was my
15 understanding.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: I believe that's her
17 motion.
18 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Okay. In that case,
19 do we have a second, Mr. Chairman?
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: If --
21 COMMISSIONER AVILA: If we're in the right
22 season it was amended.
23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, I was going to
24 amend it if we've got a second.
25 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Vernon, do you
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
42
1 understand what I just said? Have I got the motion
2 right?
3 MR. BEVILL: I understand that you would
4 be putting the ten days to the last -- to the second
5 season segment in both the Central --
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Both Central.
7 MR. BEVILL: -- and South zone.
8 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Correct.
9 MR. BEVILL: That's my understanding.
10 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Correct. And leaving
11 the North zone as is.
12 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: As an advocate for
13 the Central zone, let me say that everybody that I have
14 talked to practically -- personally in the Central zone
15 wants the ten days additional to be October not -- not in
16 January.
17 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: I've got a lot
18 of comments too.
19 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: For the Central
20 zone.
21 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I thought this was --
22 well --
23 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Which is the way --
24 the way the staff recommended it and the exception that
25 you were making, I thought was just to open the South
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
43
1 zone the Saturday before Christmas where you've got the
2 extra ten days in the winter season.
3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Well --
4 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: And that would be
5 the only change from the recommendation.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: Is that an alternative
7 motion?
8 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, I make that as
9 an alternative motion with the staff recommendation
10 modified only -- only in the sense that the South zone
11 late season would open the Saturday before Christmas.
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: For clarity then --
13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The North zone would
14 be 15.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: The North zone is 16 --
16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The Central zone
17 would be 12 and 70 with September 1st through October
18 28th and December 26th through January 6th. The South
19 zone would be whatever it is.
20 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: The Saturday
21 preceding --
22 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The Saturday
23 preceding Christmas for the extra ten days.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: With the extra ten days in
25 the second season?
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
44
1 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: The late season.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: All right.
3 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Do I withdraw my
4 motion or do I make a new motion?
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Well, I guess you have to
6 withdraw before you --
7 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I withdraw the
8 motion.
9 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: You can accept
10 it if you want.
11 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Now, Ernie, you can
12 make a new motion. Get it right.
13 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I have already made
14 it Mr. Chairman or do I need to do it again?
15 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I think you should
16 make it again for clarity sake.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: For clarity.
18 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Okay. Well, I
19 would -- I would move adoption of the staff
20 recommendation for the dove seasons with the only
21 modification being that the South zone season would
22 open -- the second season in South would open the
23 Saturday before Christmas.
24 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: I'll second that.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: The Chair has a motion and
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
45
1 a second. Any further discussion?
2 All in favor.
3 ("Aye").
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing
5 none, the motion carries.
6 MR. BEVILL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
8 amendments to 31 TAC Sections 65.315 and 65.319,
9 concerning the Migratory Game Bird Proclamation, with
10 changes to the proposed text (Located at Exhibit A) as
11 published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the Texas
12 Register (26 TexReg 3141)."
13 Modification of Motion:
14 Adoption of staff recommendation for the dove seasons
15 with the only modification being that the South zone
16 season would open - the second season in the South would
17 open the Saturday before Christmas.
18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 3: ACTION - DEER MANAGEMENT
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Item 3. Which is deer
20 management. Jerry Cooke. Item 3. Thank you.
21 DR. COOKE: Mr. Chairman and members, my
22 name is Jerry Cooke, Game Branch Chief in the Wildlife
23 Division. I'll be presenting to you some proposed
24 changes to various deer permit proclamations. This will
25 be a brief version of what we discussed yesterday.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
46
1 Basically this proposed change revolve around issues that
2 were identified by HB-2710 that was filed in the last
3 Legislative session. The primary issues within that bill
4 was to allow scientific breeders to temporarily transfer
5 buck deer from their facilities to a DMP or deer
6 management permit breeding facility to increase the
7 flexibility for Triple T transfers of deer for genetic
8 purposes, to increase the number of personnel who could
9 approve Triple T applications, and provide a formal
10 appeals process for Triple T proclamations.
11 The issues within the issues basically
12 were this: I was directed to accommodate as many of the
13 issues included in that bill into the Texas
14 Administrative Code for proposals, that the -- that we
15 should maintain the program's ideals of incentive based
16 and habitat focus, that the responsibility for approval
17 or disapproval of all permits would remain with
18 department personnel, and that deer -- that deer may not
19 be trapped from a breeding facility in a DMP permitted
20 property with a Triple T permit, and that the rules
21 wherever possible would remain fence type neutral.
22 The only -- the main issue within the bill
23 that could not be accommodated in Texas Administrative
24 Code is creating a new permit. Only the legislature can
25 do that. But we can create a -- we can create a multiple
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
47
1 permit application process; in other words, one
2 application for several permits and we can accommodate
3 that just simply by the way we do the forms. The
4 proposed issues would have to be address in the three
5 proclamations; one dealing with Triple T of game animals,
6 one of the deer management permit, and then changes
7 within the scientific breeder permit proclamations.
8 Many of the resource concerns related to
9 these issues could be accommodated if they were linked
10 into existing permit programs or existing approval
11 processes on properties. For example, if a property had
12 been renewed therefore approved and renewed into a Level
13 3 MLD permit and they had an established management plan
14 in place and the request was to remove doe deer from the
15 property using trapping and that was number was not more
16 than what had already been approved to be removed during
17 the hunting season with permits, no further inspection
18 would really be required because this was already
19 accommodated within the management plan. If the releases
20 on the property would not raise the population size above
21 the target population size in the management plan, again,
22 that would not be a resource issue and no further
23 inspection would be required. And if the population was
24 to be reduced to accommodate a release, then so long as
25 that reduction was less than half of the fawn crop, below
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
48
1 the target population size, then we wouldn't be dealing
2 with a depletion issue. This would be one way to address
3 the resource issues related to this requested -- the
4 request from the bill.
5 Also, currently our Triple T applications
6 are inspected and reviewed and approved or disapproved by
7 eight people in our division which are the district
8 leaders in Texas. And we would recommend, propose to
9 change that from only these individuals to our senior
10 biologist and our senior technicians, people who have
11 extensive experience in the field. This would be the NRS
12 IIIs and IVs and our Fish and Wildlife Technicians IIIs
13 and IVs.
14 To provide a formal appeals process,
15 basically the process would be this: If an individual
16 were denied a permit he could immediately apply -- could
17 immediately appeal it to the immediate supervisor of the
18 individual who denied the permit. If -- if the landowner
19 didn't feel -- or the applicant didn't feel he had been
20 accommodated appropriately, he could appeal it to a panel
21 and that panel would be made up of the district leader,
22 regional director responsible for the area. The
23 white-tailed deer statewide coordinator, me, and the
24 divisional director. The divisional director would be an
25 amendment to what was published in the Register. And we
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
49
1 would be reviewing that application from the standpoint
2 of had the rules that you provided us been applied in an
3 appropriate way as they are applied statewide.
4 If it is determined that a rule needed to
5 be changed it would be handled exactly the way we handle
6 all of our rule changes and that is discuss it with our
7 advisory committees and other interested parties and then
8 make a formal proposal to you-all. This application -- I
9 mean this appeal process would be part of our rules if
10 adopted. Within the deer management permit, the rules
11 would have to be changed to allow a buck deer that was
12 introduced from a scientific breeder facility be again
13 trapped and removed separate from the other deer. But
14 that that trapping method needs to be addressing the
15 welfare of the other deer that are in the pen as well.
16 And the scientific breeder proclamation allowing for the
17 temporary transfer to a DMP breeding facility would have
18 to be provided in the rule.
19 There were some additional recommended
20 changes to the scientific breeder proclamation which were
21 really separate -- apart from the issues of 2710. One is
22 the definition an authorized agent providing a simple
23 method of changing who your authorized agent is. To
24 allow photocopies of permits and invoices to be included
25 in the annual report. To change the requirement, the
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
50
1 current requirement of all deer having to be ear tagged
2 by March 1 to March 31. Also, one change that was not in
3 the publication but -- but certainly we believe needs to
4 be addressed. Currently if a deer is to be moved ten
5 days prior to a season or during a hunting season, the
6 scientific breeder has to notify the department before
7 that move takes place. There are people other than
8 scientific breeder permit holders who move deer under
9 this program and the wording needs to be changed to
10 include all of those people in that notification
11 process.
12 One of the public comments that came
13 forward during the hearings and in other discussions was
14 that currently deer temporarily held in a DMP facility,
15 deer management permit breeding facility, can't be
16 released before March 1 which means that they're subject
17 to a Triple T permit during that 31 days to the end of
18 the trapping season. And that we think that it would be
19 more appropriate if instead of being held until March 1
20 that they would be held until April 1 to be sure that
21 those individuals held there and bred there stayed there
22 on the property which was the intent of the permit
23 program from the beginning.
24 If you have any other questions? I have
25 the recommended motion should you choose to adopt these
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
51
1 regulations. Do you have any questions?
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: To be clear, the change to
3 the April date is part of the staff recommendation --
4 DR. COOKE: Yes.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: -- on the release?
6 DR. COOKE: Yes. That is -- but -- but
7 again that can't be adopted here in this action because
8 that section is not open.
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: So come back and do that
10 later.
11 DR. COOKE: Come back in August to adopt
12 it should you choose to do so.
13 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there any questions
14 prior to public comment? We do have some people who wish
15 to speak on this.
16 John Henderson, if you would come forward
17 and Jerry Johnston if you would be prepared to speak
18 after Mr. Henderson.
19 MR. HENDERSON: Good morning, Chairman
20 Bass and other Commissioners. I'm John Henderson,
21 rancher retired Ag science teacher from Meridian, Bosque
22 County, Texas. I'd like to support the scientific
23 breeder proclamation, the deer management proclamation
24 and the Triple T proclamations. Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Henderson.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
52
1 Jerry Johnston. And J.N. Grimes if you would be prepared
2 to speak next.
3 MR. JOHNSTON: Good morning,
4 Commissioners, Chairman Bass. I'm Jerry Johnston
5 representing Texas Deer Association. Our president was
6 called back to Corpus on an emergency, so he's not going
7 be able to be here this morning so I've got 275 people
8 that are in support of the proclamations. Just give them
9 to her?
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Please.
11 MR. JOHNSTON: There might be one thing
12 that should where considered in regards to the April 1st
13 could be a solution that might be looked into and that
14 would be that anybody holding a DMP permit, if they were
15 in possession of a Triple T, the last date that Triple T
16 could be used would be prior to the release date of their
17 deer. Would be something to look into. But just give
18 these to --
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, if you would give
20 them to Ms. Estrada, please, that would be appropriate.
21 MR. JOHNSTON: Real quickly, though, I've
22 been messing around this deer business for 25 years and
23 during that time there's been a lot of different sets of
24 Commissioners up here and I think our group's going to
25 miss you. Thank you.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
53
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
2 J.N. Grimes, and David Langford if you
3 would be prepared to speak next.
4 MR. GRIMES: Good morning, Commissioner
5 Bass. I thank you-all for allowing me to speak. I'm
6 from -- J.N. Grimes from Jacksonville, Texas. I'm a
7 Dairy Queen operator. I'm a deer raiser. Have -- and a
8 rancher and I'm supporting the rules changes and as
9 recommended.
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank your, sir. David
11 Langford, and Ellis Gilleland if you would be prepared to
12 speak after Mr. Langford.
13 MR. LANGFORD: Thank you again,
14 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. I'm David
15 Langford, Texas Wildlife Association. And we approve the
16 motion as presented and would ask that the motion also
17 include going forward with the April 1st date or the
18 other solution that Jerry Johnston presented so that
19 everything gets tied up. These -- all the loose ends are
20 tied up by the August Commission meeting which is for the
21 next trapping season. So whatever the legalities and --
22 and proper procedure is to approve that motion and to
23 include going forward in the Register with the April 1st
24 date or the suggestion of Jerry Johnston so that we can
25 address that at the August meeting.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
54
1 Thank you very much.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you,
3 Mr. Langford.
4 Mr. Gilleland, please.
5 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
6 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen. I'm representing
7 Texas Animals which is an Internet organization promoting
8 animal rights and animal welfare. I would like to first
9 of all protest that three minutes is not sufficient to
10 address three rules. We should be getting three minutes
11 each.
12 The first comment I would like to make
13 pertains to the trapping and transport portion of this.
14 I would like to see as a citizen some mention in the
15 rules about your statutory authority for giving away
16 white-tail deer to Mexico. You're transporting thousands
17 of deer to hunting ranches in Northern Mexico with no
18 statutory authority. I would like to see that in a rule,
19 your basis. The second thing I would like to see in the
20 rule is what money you're receiving from Mexico or what
21 renumeration for these deer.
22 The second aspect of this I would like to
23 address is the portion that deals with the tagging and
24 unique numbers. If you turn to 65.601 -- this is on
25 scientific breeding portion. If you turn to 65.601 you
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
55
1 see subparagraph 10 it says, "If the permittee chooses to
2 assign unique numbers, each deer must be tattooed,"
3 et cetera. But yet when you turn to 65.607, marking of
4 deer subparagraph B it says that is no ifs, ands, or buts
5 optional. It says, "They will be permanently tattooed in
6 one or both ears with a unique number." So you've got at
7 mismatch there. Do you want -- is it mandatory or not or
8 is it optional or not. The second item you have is a
9 mismatch 65.609 where the concept is deer being put into
10 captivity pens for breeding and nursing. That thread
11 runs all the way through this can of worms. Yet you say
12 if they are not hunted prior to liberation, they being
13 the deer, you say if the deer are not hunted. Well,
14 again there's no option for hunting because the deer are
15 in the pens. Why do you want to hunt nursing and
16 breeding deer? Isn't that counterproductive? I think
17 all of you are intelligent enough to understand that. If
18 you kill an animal that's breeding or nursing, doesn't
19 that negate the effect of putting them in the pen? So
20 please eliminate where it says optional. Put in, "and
21 they shall not be hunted prior to liberation."
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you, Mr. Gilleland.
24 Dr. Cooke, do you have any comments?
25 DR. COOKE: Do you have any specific
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
56
1 question about comments that were made? I'd be happy to
2 address those.
3 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any specific questions.
4 Any -- would you respond to Mr. Gilleland's question, if
5 you would, please.
6 DR. COOKE: Related to moving deer to
7 Mexico, as far as the State of Texas is concerned, this
8 is no different than assisting any other agency in
9 restoration efforts. For instance, we supply Rio Grande
10 turkeys to the State of Nevada. They have a huntable
11 turkey population in Nevada because of Rio Grande turkeys
12 from Texas. Big-horned sheep are moved from state to
13 state and under the same authority we move white-tail
14 deer to the regulating entity in Mexico which is the --
15 which is the -- our -- in the U.S. the Fish and Wildlife
16 Service is what they are but their states have no
17 authority over wildlife. So basically our agreement is
18 between the State of Texas and the federalies in Mexico.
19 And the sites where they are moved to are those sites put
20 forward by Mexico as restoration sites. There are no
21 monies changing hands here.
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you.
23 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Mr. Chairman.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Yes, please.
25 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Dr. Cooke, what about
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
57
1 the conflicts in the regulations that were previously
2 mentioned by Mr. Gilleland? Did you follow those?
3 DR. COOKE: I followed them but I didn't
4 see them as conflicts. Basically there's an
5 alternative -- there's alternative methods of -- of using
6 unique numbers to mark deer from a breeding -- from a
7 scientific breeder pen. It can be numbers supplied by
8 us, it can could be numbers that they come up with
9 themselves that are in fact unique, which is that say
10 includes their breeder number that's part of their
11 permit. They are not required to tattoo any deer that is
12 not removed from their facility. So basically the only
13 conditional is if you take them out of a facility you
14 will have an unique number tattooed into their ear. But
15 if they don't leave the facility, they're not required to
16 have a unique number attached to their ear. The main
17 purpose of that is to follow animals as they move between
18 facilities. When an animal is going down the road, our
19 law enforcement people need to know where they come from
20 and the background on them. That's the issue.
21 As we discussed or maybe I didn't discuss
22 earlier, the primary issue in dealing with the scientific
23 breeder proclamation is a very simple one. There's a
24 fence and on this side of the fence are deer that they
25 purchased and are part of their program, and on this side
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
58
1 of the fence are deer that belong to the people of the
2 State of Texas. And the rules are designed to see that
3 the two don't meet. And that law enforcement can tease
4 apart the difference.
5 Did that answer your question, sir? Thank
6 you.
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Are there other
8 questions? The chair would entertain a motion.
9 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, prior
10 to the motion I wanted to address the proposal and
11 recognize the hard work of the staff, which I do
12 appreciate. We discussed the issue of the managed deer
13 permits several years ago, and at that point in time I
14 expressed my grave concern about that particular
15 program. And when I came to the meeting yesterday it was
16 the thought that, well, this is, you know, another small
17 step and it will perhaps make things clearer or easier.
18 But in hearing the discussion yesterday and looking back
19 at the proposal and talking last night with several
20 members of the public -- Private Lands Advisory Committee
21 and in thinking about the concerns that I had expressed
22 before, I've come to this proposal today with a vote
23 against it. And again, it's because of the provision for
24 the managed deer permits. I think that the -- the wild
25 animals belong to all Texans. The deer are wild animals,
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
59
1 and I think that anytime that we do something with the
2 deer, the managed deer permits, that we're moving down
3 the road to privatization. And I so I wanted to express
4 that before we move forward with this proposal. Before I
5 did not register a vote at all. And today I will vote
6 against it and for those reasons if the proposal is
7 moved.
8 CHAIRMAN BASS: Thank you. Any further
9 discussion? The chair would entertain a motion.
10 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So moved.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: The chair has had motion
12 to accept staff's proposal.
13 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: And a second. All in
15 favor.
16 ("Aye").
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Opposed.
18 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Nay.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion carries. Thank
20 you.
21 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts
22 amendments to 31 TAC Chapter 65, Subchapter E, L, and R
23 (located at Exhibit A), concerning the Scientific Breeder
24 Proclamation, the Triple T Proclamation, and the Deer
25 Management Proclamation, with changes to the proposed
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
60
1 text as published in the April 27, 2001, issue of the
2 Texas Register (26 TexReg, 3137-3145.)"
3 AGENDA ITEM NO. 4: ACTION - AQUACULTURE MOU
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Aquaculture MOU, Raenell
5 Silcox, please, or actually Dr. McKinney.
6 DR. McKINNEY: Mr. Chairman, Andy is
7 correct it's difficult to say that for the last time
8 today. I'm filling in for Raenell --
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: You can still call me
10 that.
11 DR. McKINNEY: Yes, sir, I will certainly
12 do that. Raenell had a family emergency and had to
13 leave, so I'm going to fill in for her but hopefully we
14 can move through this quickly. Hold this down again.
15 This an item which we briefed you on yesterday in
16 hearing. Basically as was noted yesterday in the
17 workshop, this is a chronology of events that led up to
18 the original MOU, so I won't repeat that.
19 What we're bringing before you today is a
20 revised MOU to incorporate the requirements of the last
21 Legislative session to -- to bring into play the
22 Department of Agriculture along with some other changes
23 required by that Legislation. They are summarized on
24 this slide for you as well. We received no public
25 comment and so pending other discussion or questions from
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
61
1 the Commission, staff would recommend the adoption of the
2 motion that is -- you see before you on your screen. So,
3 Mr. Chairman, I'm ready for any questions that you may
4 have.
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have no public comment,
6 the Chair would entertain discussion or questions.
7 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: Just one
8 comment. In the briefing you-all gave us raised the
9 issue of the fixed time periods in which to respond for
10 permitting and I understand how it's handled. I'm
11 certainly going to vote for it. I would like to ask any
12 members of the industry or our own staff as we go forward
13 with this and other regulatory matters, permitting
14 procedures, that we really watch our deadlines and make
15 sure we respond promptly. I think frequently regulated
16 business' biggest problem with permitting is the time it
17 takes rather than the compliance itself. So I commend
18 our team for putting deadlines in there, I would just
19 like to keep an eye on that as we go forward in case we
20 need to modify that procedure to put a drop dead on us so
21 we don't hold people up unduly.
22 DR. McKINNEY: Duly noted and certainly
23 supported, yes, sir.
24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Mr. Bass, I would
25 move approval.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
62
1 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a motion and a
3 second. All in favor?
4 ("Aye").
5 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion
6 carries. Thank you.
7 DR. McKINNEY: Thank you, sir.
8 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts amended
9 31 TAC Section 57.135 (located at Exhibit A) as published
10 in the April 27, 2001 issue of the Texas Register (26
11 TexReg 3136), adopting by reference the Memorandum of
12 Understanding Between the Texas Natural Resource
13 Conservation Commission, the Texas Parks and Wildlife
14 Department and the Texas Department of Agriculture
15 (located at Exhibit B)."
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a briefing on
17 Covert and Environmental Operations.
18 AGENDA ITEM NO. 5: BRIEFING - COVERT AND ENVIRONMENTAL
19 OPERATIONS
20 (Whereupon, a briefing item was
21 presented to the Commissioners, after
22 which, the following proceedings were
23 had:)
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Go ahead.
25 AGENDA ITEM NO. 6: ACTION - STAMP FEE FOR DISABLED
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
63
1 VETERANS
2 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: We will turn next to
3 Item No. 6 on the agenda which is an action item. And it
4 is Stamp Fee for Disabled Veterans. And Frances Stiles.
5 Welcome.
6 MS. STILES: Good morning.
7 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Good morning.
8 MS. STILES: My name is Frances Stiles.
9 I'm with the Administrative Resources Division. I'm here
10 to present a proposal to you for the Disabled Veterans
11 hunting and fishing license to add hunting and fishing
12 stamps to the existing license. Currently the agency
13 offers a Disabled Veteran's license that consists of a
14 hunting and fishing license to those who qualify under
15 the Veteran's Administration definition for disabled.
16 What the proposal adds is the five hunting stamps and the
17 two fishing stamps to this license keeping the cost at no
18 fee to disabled Veterans. This -- this item has been
19 published in the Texas Register in order to implement
20 this for the next year's license season. And we have
21 received no comments on that. This would impact the
22 Texas Administrative Code and -- and Section 5390 to the
23 Code.
24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Thank you,
25 Ms. Stiles. Do members of the Commission have any
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
64
1 questions?
2 We will take public comments then.
3 Mr. Gilleland, please.
4 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
5 Gilleland. I'm speaking for Texas Animals which is an
6 Internet organization animal rights, animal welfare
7 organization on the Internet. In regard to this program
8 for disabled Veterans, it's such a great program I think
9 you ought to extend it to the -- extend the scope to all
10 Veterans. Why limit it just to the disabled Veterans? I
11 would make two minor modifications in that
12 recommendation. Number one is that you double the stamp
13 fee instead of eliminating it. And, number two, require
14 that all these people go to a psychiatrist and take a
15 psychological examination and receive psychological
16 counseling because they did not get enough killing in
17 Vietnam. They're obviously sick. Thank you.
18 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Ms. Stiles? Any
19 comments or questions by any members of the Commission?
20 Hearing none, the Chair would entertain a motion on this
21 item.
22 COMMISSIONER WATSON: I so move.
23 COMMISSIONER HENRY: Second.
24 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: It's been moved by
25 Commissioner Watson and seconded by Commissioner Henry
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
65
1 that this agenda item be approved. Any further
2 discussion? All in favor say "aye."
3 ("Aye").
4 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Those opposed, nay.
5 The motion carries. Thank you, Ms. Stiles.
6 MS. STILES: Thank you.
7 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission adopts the
8 proposed Rule, Title 31, Texas Administrative Code,
9 Chapter 53 (Finance), section 53.90 as published in the
10 April 27, 2001 Texas Register with an effective date of
11 August 15, 2001."
12 AGENDA ITEM NO. 7: ACTION - FLEET POLICY
13 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: The next agenda item
14 is the No. 7, the fleet policy. Mr. Cook.
15 MR. COOK: Good morning. Commissioners,
16 my name is Robert L. Cook, Chief Operating Officer. This
17 rule is required for compliance with House Bill 3125 from
18 the 76th Legislature which created the statewide fleet
19 management plan. House Bill 3125 placed a statewide
20 moratorium on the purchase of new vehicles. The counsel
21 on competitive government established a provision within
22 the statewide fleet management plan that the moratorium
23 would not be lifted for an agency until it adopted the
24 statewide fleet management plan. In order for an agency
25 to adopt the plan it must have the General Services
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
66
1 Commission office of fleet management approve the
2 agency's fleet management plan and the agency must adopt
3 specified rules.
4 TPWD's fleet management plan has been
5 approved and the moratorium has been lifted because we
6 were able to show that our rules are on the Commission
7 agenda, continued removal of the moratorium is contingent
8 upon rule approval. The rules state as follows: "Each
9 agency vehicle with the exception of a vehicle assigned
10 to a field employee shall be assigned to the agency motor
11 pool and be available for checkout. And the agency may
12 assign a vehicle to an individual administrative or
13 executive employee on a regular basis only if the agency
14 makes a written documented finding that the assignment is
15 critical to the needs and mission of the agency." And
16 there's our motion. Be glad to take any questions.
17 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Gilleland, you wish to
18 speak on this item?
19 MR. GILLELAND: Yes, sir, I have some
20 comments.
21 MR. GILLELAND: My name is Ellis
22 Gilleland. I'm a private citizen speaking for Texas
23 Animals which is an animals rights organization on the
24 Internet. The comments I have to do -- have to make are
25 based on observing the use of Parks and Wildlife vehicles
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
67
1 over about a ten-year period. First of all, I think this
2 is rule is fraudulent. This is 51.152 because number A
3 in Paragraph A you establish a rule to limit the use,
4 private use of vehicles. Yes a lawyer would smile and
5 then under B you write in a loophole. And the loophole
6 negates what you wrote under A. This is so crudely done
7 I doubt that it was done by a licensed lawyer. The rule
8 should read under B, "The agency may not assign to an
9 individual, administrative or the executive employee on a
10 regular basis a parks and wildlife vehicle," period. Yet
11 you go on and you add the loophole, and so my
12 recommendation is to put a period after "basis" and cut
13 out the loophole.
14 Secondly, what is regular? Look in the
15 dictionary for regular and you'll see about twenty
16 different definitions. It means -- and the ambiguous
17 word "regular" on a "regular basis" means absolutely
18 zilch, particularly in court. Please define "regular" to
19 mean full-time, to assign a vehicle full-time or to
20 assign it during nonduty hours to the same person or
21 assign on a weekend basis. I know you will ignore this
22 because it sensible and logical and will save the
23 government money. So I'm asking you to, number two, when
24 you pass this, pull these people's government credit
25 card. Make them put their own money in the gas tank.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
68
1 You want to give them the vehicle, okay, make them put
2 gas in the gas tank. Pull those cotton picking
3 government credit cards and number two stop them from
4 driving especially executive director driving unmarked
5 cars. Put at Texas seal on the door, both doors and the
6 trunk. Paint them white with a green stripe, put neon
7 lights, whatever, so the public will know that these
8 scoundrels are driving public vehicles on the weekends
9 for their own pleasure to home, wherever, spending my
10 money, my tax dollar unethically, perhaps not illegally.
11 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Gilleland, you're
12 getting out of order. Would you please conclude your
13 comments.
14 MR. GILLELAND: Yes, sir. Thank you.
15 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any further discussion?
16 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I move approval of
17 the recommendation.
18 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: The chair has a motion and
20 a second. Any discussion? All in favor say "aye."
21 ("Aye").
22 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed. The motion
23 carries. Thank you, Mr. Cook.
24 "The Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission authorizes staff
25 to adopt the new rule Section 51.152 regarding the Texas
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
69
1 Parks and Wildlife Vehicle Management Plan."
2 AGENDA ITEM NO. 8: ACTION - NOMINATION FOR OIL AND GAS
3 LEASE - FAYETTE COUNTY
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Kathy Boydston.
5 Nomination for oil and gas lease.
6 MS. BOYDSTON: Hello, Mr. Chairman,
7 Commissioners, my name is Kathy Boydston, Program Leader
8 for the Wildlife Habitat Assessment Program in the
9 Wildlife Division. The department received a nomination
10 for an oil and gas lease on the tract as Monument
11 Hill/Kreische Brewery State Park in Fayette County. The
12 department owns 100 percent of the mineral interests for
13 the 39.54 acre-tract. Staff recommends the Commission
14 continue its policy requiring a minimum bonus bid of $150
15 per acre, a 25 percent royalty and a $10 per acre delay
16 rental for a three-year term. It is also proposed that
17 the lease be subject to the conditions shown in Exhibit
18 A. And there's the staff recommendation for you to
19 consider.
20 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions? No public
21 comment, the Chair would entertain a motion.
22 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved.
23 CHAIRMAN BASS: We have a motion and a
24 second. All in favor.
25 ("Aye").
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
70
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion
2 carries. Thank you, Ms. Boydston.
3 MS. BOYDSTON: Thank you.
4 "The Executive Director is authorized to nominate for oil
5 and gas lease to the Board for Lease for Parks and
6 Wildlife Lands, the Department's mineral interest in the
7 Monument Hill/Kreische Brewery State Parks, at $150 per
8 acre with a 25 percent royalty, $10 per acre rental, and
9 a 3-year term, incorporating the restrictions set out in
10 Exhibit A."
11 AGENDA ITEM NO. 9: ACTION - LOCAL PARK FUNDING
12 CHAIRMAN BASS: Local park funding. Tim
13 Hogsett.
14 MR. HOGSETT: Good morning.
15 Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, I'm Tim Hogsett,
16 Director of the Recreation Grants Program in the State
17 Parks Division. This item is consideration of
18 supplemental funding for applicants to the Federal Urban
19 Parks and Recreation Recovery Program which is a program
20 of the U.S. Department of Interior National Parks
21 Service. U.S. Congress has recently appropriated $28
22 million for fiscal year 2001 to be granted to local
23 governments throughout the country from the Urban Parks
24 Recreation Recovery Program.
25 Texas local governments collectively are
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
71
1 eligible for $4,325,400 in that competition. The program
2 authorizes competitive Federal assistance to urban
3 localities for rehabilitation of critically needed
4 recreation facilities. The fund can only be used for
5 existing facilities and not new facilities. Grants to
6 local governments or are local -- are matching grants
7 with a Federal share being no more than 70 percent of the
8 project. There's also an incentive for states to
9 participate in the match costs and when the states do
10 participate financially, the remaining match may be
11 shared by the states up to 15 percent of the program
12 cost. Federal government then on a dollar-per-dollar
13 basis will match the state contribution thus lessening
14 the local government's required commitment.
15 In previous years the Commission has
16 chosen to make a match commitment of 10 percent from
17 state funds resulting in an increase of the Federal share
18 for projects from 70 to 80 percent and lessening the
19 local commitment from 30 to 10 percent. A 10 percent
20 commitment in the past has been important to ensure that
21 the local governments have an investment in the program.
22 A 10 percent department commitment would be 300 and --
23 would be $432,540 and any uncommitted funds would revert
24 back to the department. And this is the staff
25 recommendation. Be glad to answer any questions that you
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
72
1 have.
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any questions of
3 Mr. Hogsett? There's no public comment on this. The
4 Chair would entertain a motion.
5 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: So moved.
6 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second. Any
8 discussion? All in favor.
9 ("Aye").
10 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed. Hearing
11 none, the motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Hogsett.
12 "Funding in the amount of up to $432,540 is reserved to
13 be used, at the direction of the Executive Director, to
14 match 10% of the cost for UPARR projects approved by the
15 National Park Service for Texas local governments."
16 AGENDA ITEM NO. 10: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - SAN
17 PATRICIO COUNTY - LAKE CORPUS CHRISTI STATE PARK
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Land acquisition, Karen
19 Leslie, San Patricio County.
20 MS. LESLIE: Mr. Chairman, thank you for
21 all your many challenges through the years when it comes
22 to land acquisition for Texas Park and Wildlife.
23 Chairman and Commissioners, I'm Karen
24 Leslie. I'm a project manager in land conservation.
25 This item was discussed in the Conservation Committee
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
73
1 Executive Session yesterday. The item summarizes that
2 discussion. The property contains some 50 acres and will
3 be used to accommodate a new wastewater treatment plant
4 at the park. The purchase will protect the natural
5 resources in the parks. We were very concerned about
6 destroying the brush if we had to use the park for the
7 wastewater treatment facilities.
8 Staff recommends the Commission consider
9 the motion to acquire the property as an addition to Lake
10 Corpus Christi State Park. I'd be glad to entertain any
11 questions.
12 VICE-CHAIR DINKINS: Mr. Chairman, I would
13 like the record to reflect that I have filed a letter
14 with Mr. Sansom recusing myself from consideration of or
15 voting on this item.
16 CHAIRMAN BASS: Let the record so
17 reflect. Any questions. There's no public comment. The
18 Chair would entertain a motion?
19 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved.
20 COMMISSIONER HENRY: I'd second.
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion and a second.
22 Any discussion? All in favor say "Aye."
23 ("Aye").
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing
25 none, the motion passes. Thank you, Ms. Leslie. And
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
74
1 would you move onto El Paso County for us.
2 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
3 necessary to purchase approximately 50 acres in San
4 Patricio County as an addition to Lake Corpus Christi
5 State park."
6 AGENDA ITEM NO. 11: ACTION - LAND ACQUISITION - EL PASO
7 COUNTY - FRANKLIN MOUNTAINS STATE PARK
8 MS. LESLIE: Chairman and Commissioners,
9 this item also reflects a summary of what we discuss in
10 Executive Session yesterday. This property contains
11 approximately 46 acres. It's located on the southeast
12 corner of Franklin Mountains State Park. It will ensure
13 the view shed of the department operated while our area
14 tramway if so approved.
15 Staff recommends the Commission consider
16 the motion to acquire the acreage as an addition to
17 enhance the tramway at Franklin Mountains State Park.
18 Any questions?
19 CHAIRMAN BASS: There's no public
20 comment. Any questions or a motion?
21 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: I would move
22 approval, Mr. Chairman.
23 COMMISSIONER WATSON: Second.
24 CHAIRMAN BASS: Motion and a second.
25 Discussion? All in favor?
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
75
1 ("Aye").
2 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? Hearing
3 none, the motion carries.
4 Thank you, Ms. Leslie. Jack Bauer.
5 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
6 necessary to purchase approximately 46.01 acres in El
7 Paso County as an addition to Franklin Mountains State
8 Park."
9 AGENDA ITEM NO. 12: ACTION - LAND EXCHANGE - HOUSTON
10 COUNTY - WECHES CEMETERY ASSOCIATION-TPW
11 MR. BAUER: Chairman Bass and
12 Commissioners, I'm Jack Bauer, Director of the Land
13 Conservation Program. The Texas Legislature has passed
14 House Concurrent Resolution No. 105 directing Parks and
15 Wildlife and the Parks and Wildlife Commission to
16 exchange property at Mission Tejas State Historical Park
17 with the Weches Cemetery Association. The transaction
18 recommended has been fully coordinated the local
19 legislative representative, the Parks and Wildlife staff,
20 the Weches Cemetery Association and the Houston County
21 Commissioner's Court.
22 The Staff recommends the Parks and
23 Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to affect
24 the land exchange as directed by the Legislature. I
25 would be happy to answer any questions.
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
76
1 CHAIRMAN BASS: Questions? There's no
2 public comment on this item today. The Chair would
3 entertain a motion.
4 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So moved.
5 COMMISSIONER IDSAL: Second.
6 CHAIRMAN BASS: The motion and a second.
7 Any discussion? All in favor say "Aye."
8 ("Aye").
9 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion
10 carries. Thank you.
11 MR. BAUER: Thank you.
12 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
13 necessary to transfer approximately 1.238-acres of land
14 in exchange for approximately 0.084-acres owned by Weches
15 Cemetery Association in Houston County."
16 AGENDA ITEM NO. 13: ACTION - LAND DISPOSITION - TRAVIS
17 AND WILLIAMSON COUNTIES
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Ray - Travis and
19 Williamson Counties.
20 MR. RAY: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners,
21 I'm Ronnie Ray -- oh, excuse me -- Project Manager for
22 Land Conversation. Texas Parks and Wildlife owns two
23 tracts of property as part of the Lakeline Mall Habitat
24 Conversation plan for mitigation of altered endangered
25 species habitat. These properties are the Testudo Tube
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
77
1 Cave Preserve and the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve.
2 It would best serve the interest of the
3 Texas Parks and Wildlife to transfer the title and the
4 plan operator responsibilities of these two tracts to
5 parties whose interest would be better served as owners
6 and caretakers of these properties. The City of Austin
7 has expressed interest in the Testudo Tube Preserve and
8 the United States Army Corps. of Engineers has expressed
9 interest in the Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve.
10 Staff recommends the Texas Parks and
11 Wildlife Commission adopt the motion before you to effect
12 the transfer of these properties to the City of Austin
13 and to the U.S. Corps. of Engineers. Any questions?
14 CHAIRMAN BASS: If there are no questions,
15 the Chair would entertain a motion.
16 COMMISSIONER WATSON: So moved.
17 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Second.
18 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any discussion? All in
19 favor say "Aye."
20 ("Aye").
21 CHAIRMAN BASS: Any opposed? The motion
22 carries. Thank you, Mr. Ray.
23 "The Executive Director is authorized to take all steps
24 necessary to consummate the transfer of approximately 26
25 acres known as the Testudo Tube Cave Preserve to the City
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
78
1 of Austin, Texas and approximately 106 acres known as the
2 Godwin Ranch Cave Preserve to the United States Army
3 Corps. of Engineers."
4 CHAIRMAN BASS: Mr. Sansom, is there any
5 other business to come before this Commission today?
6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SANSOM: No, sir.
7 CHAIRMAN BASS: Being none, I declare
8 ourselves adjourned. Thank you all very much.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
79
1 STATE OF TEXAS )
COUNTY OF TRAVIS )
2
3
4 I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in
5 and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the
6 above and foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and
7 correct transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and
8 Wildlife Commission on May 31, 2001, in the Commission
9 hearing room of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters
10 Complex, Austin, Travis County, Texas. I FURTHER CERTIFY
11 that a stenographic record was made by me at the time of
12 the public meeting and said stenographic notes were
13 thereafter reduced to computerized transcription under
14 my supervision and control. WITNESS MY HAND this ____
15 day of ____________________, 2001.
16
17
18 ___________________________
KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589
19 Expiration Date: 12/2002
3101 Bee Caves Road
20 Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78701
21 (512) 328-5557
22
23
24
25
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
80
1
___________________________
2 LEE M. BASS, CHAIRMAN
3 ___________________________
CAROL E. DINKINS, VICE-CHAIR
4
___________________________
5 PHIL MONTGOMERY
6 ___________________________
JOSEPH FITZSIMONS
7
___________________________
8 ERNEST ANGELO, JR.
9 ___________________________
JOHN AVILA, JR.
10
___________________________
11 ALVIN L. HENRY
12 ___________________________
KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL
13
___________________________
14 MARK E. WATSON, JR.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II
Austin, Texas 78746
(512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139