Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Ad Hoc Infrastructure Committee

Jan. 24, 2001

Commission Hearing Room
Texas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744


             7             BE IT REMEMBERED that heretofore on the 

             8    24th day of January 2001, there came on to be 

             9    heard matters under the regulatory authority of 

            10    the Parks and Wildlife Commission of Texas, in the 

            11    commission hearing room of the Texas Parks and 

            12    Wildlife Headquarters complex, Austin, Travis 

            13    County, Texas, beginning at 10:32 a.m., to wit:


                  Chair: John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas
            18           Lee M. Bass, Fort Worth, Texas
                         Dick W. Heath, Carrollton, Texas
            19           Nolan Ryan, Alvin, Texas (Absent)
                         Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas
            20           Carol E. Dinkins, Houston, Texas
                         Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas
            21           Katharine Armstrong Idsal, Dallas, Texas
                         Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas
            23             Andrew H. Sansom, Executive Director, and 
                  other personnel of the Parks and Wildlife 
            24    Department.


             1                     JANUARY 24, 2001

             2                         *-*-*-*-*


             4                         *-*-*-*-*

             5                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  We will now, I 

             6    think, have time to do our Infrastructure 

             7    Committee prior to heading downtown.  Mr. Avila, 

             8    unfortunately, you weren't earlier to hear us 

             9    approve the new esteemed license plate.

            10                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I saw that.

            11                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Which is the John 

            12    Avila -- you get first pick. 

            13                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I get one that 

            14    says Parks on it? 

            15                  COMMISSIONER ANGELO:  I already 

            16    tried.  It's gone. 

            17                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Andy suggested that 

            18    could be the official plate of all the Thomas 

            19    Byrne's vehicles.

            20                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  You've learned 

            21    too much.

            22                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Never pass that for 

            23    revenue option.  The Chair yields to Andrew Avila.

            24    End end

            25                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  I call to 


             1    meeting of the Ad Hoc Infrastructure Committee.  

             2    Today is January 24th, 2001 at 10:30.  The first 

             3    item on our agenda is approval of the committee 

             4    minutes from the previous meeting.  It's not in 

             5    the book. 

             6                  So pending my review of those, we'll 

             7    have approval of those meeting notes. 

             8       AGENDA ITEM NO. 1:  BRIEFING - CHAIRMAN'S 

             9       CHARGES.

            10                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Andy, do you 

            11    have anything on the Chairman's charges? 

            12                  MR. SANSOM:  Only to comment that 

            13    you'll recall that when we began this process, we 

            14    had about a $75 million critical infrastructure 

            15    repair backlog.  The legislature, with you-all's 

            16    help, gave you $60 million to get about the 

            17    business of reducing that backlog.  Scott is going 

            18    to give you a report on that this morning.

            19                  But the most exciting thing is that 

            20    Governor Perry has included in his budget message 

            21    an additional $15 million in the form of bonds 

            22    that would complete the original infrastructure 

            23    task force agenda.

            24                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Great.  We'll 

            25    have a briefing by Scott on the capital program. 


             1       AGENDA ITEM NO. 2:  BRIEFING - BOND AND CAPITAL 

             2       PROGRAM UPDATE.

             3                  MR. BORUFF:  Mr. Chairman, 

             4    Commissioners, this will be fairly brief.  We'll 

             5    jump right to the '98 bond issue, which I'm 

             6    pleased to report is complete.  Those projects 

             7    have all been completed, $11.8 million in bond 

             8    money spent on those projects. 

             9                  The '99 bond issue, which totals 132 

            10    projects to the tune of $18 million, $10.3 million 

            11    of that -- those funds have been spent to date. 

            12                  You can see the breakdown there.  We 

            13    currently have 45 projects in construction, 22 in 

            14    design, 35 percent of the projects have been 

            15    completed, which is 47 projects.  And we have the 

            16    remaining 14 percent out for bid.  Of the 2000 

            17    bond issue, there again we have about 118 total 

            18    projects, $20 million was the total issued.  

            19    Seventy-eight of those projects are in design, 22 

            20    in construction, eight in bid, 10 are scheduled to 

            21    start in the near future.

            22                  The 2001 bond issue, which is the 

            23    issue coming up next month is going to be $13.5 

            24    million, which as we mentioned earlier, is the 

            25    remaining $10 million plus three and a half 


             1    million dollars in earned interest over that time. 

             2                  We will be launching 87 projects 

             3    next month, and you can see the way they break 

             4    down there.  66 percent of those are 

             5    water/wastewater projects.  21 percent are 

             6    facility repairs.  The remaining 11 percent are 

             7    ADA. 

             8                  This is probably the one I'm most 

             9    pleased about.  This is our proposed expenditure 

            10    model for the year which shows us spending $22 

            11    million on these projects this year, and as you 

            12    can see, we're exactly on target, having expended 

            13    $6.9  million to date.  Any questions?  I'd be 

            14    glad to answer them. 

            15                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Scott, the only 

            16    question I have is the wastewater projects that 

            17    focused with the last of the money, we've done 

            18    emergency type repairs in the area of program, but 

            19    tell me why we're fixating on that right now.  Is 

            20    this preventive? 

            21                  MR. BORUFF:  No.  These are still 

            22    addressing those critical repair needs identified 

            23    in the Infrastructure Task Force Report back from  

            24    1997.  So these continue to be critical repairs in 

            25    mostly the parks that were existing problems then, 


             1    and they continue to be existing problems.

             2                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  But it's not 

             3    many new, necessarily? 

             4                  MR. BORUFF:  I wouldn't say that 

             5    there's many new.  Certainly, we have a couple or 

             6    three projects here, and they have fallen off the 

             7    list since we first identified it back in '97, and 

             8    two or three more may have come on.  But the bulk 

             9    of the projects were the projects that were 

            10    identified in that report.

            11                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  But what I'm 

            12    asking is, there's no new wastewater treatment 

            13    plants.

            14                  MR. SANSOM:  No plants? 

            15                  MR. BORUFF:  No, no.  There is no 

            16    development.  This is all replacing existing 

            17    plants.

            18                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Any other 

            19    questions? 

            20                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  I have a question.  

            21    And I'm not sure who is in the best position to 

            22    answer this, but I'll throw it out. 

            23                  When we first did that report and 

            24    came up with the roughly $75 million number of 

            25    critical repairs, which was primarily 


             1    water/wastewater, team and safety issues, ADA 

             2    issues, at that time that was obviously an 

             3    estimate, and we didn't have firm numbers on every 

             4    project. 

             5                  I know, over the course of getting 

             6    to where we are today, we have found in some 

             7    instances situations that were far worse than we 

             8    anticipated, ones that we didn't even realize at 

             9    the time, probably, a few instances -- places 

            10    where things were much more expensive to get done 

            11    than we might have thought. 

            12                  And similarly, I've been aware of 

            13    instances where, with some very creative thinking 

            14    by people in the Department and out in the field, 

            15    we're able to solve problems for a fraction of we 

            16    thought the initial estimate might have been and 

            17    have been able to extend life to some facilities 

            18    some ten or 20 years without having to replace 

            19    them.

            20                  That said, if -- knowing what we 

            21    know now, how good was our $75 million estimate 

            22    and how far has the bond issue taken us towards 

            23    getting there versus what's left now that we're a 

            24    lot smarter than we were just making guesstimates 

            25    four years ago?  As I say, I don't know who the 


             1    best person to answer that question might be. 

             2                  MR. SANSOM:  Let me take a start and 

             3    then have Scott follow up.  We believe that if we 

             4    are able successfully to get this -- we have two 

             5    strategies now before the legislature.  One is an 

             6    additional $15 million in critical repair bonds 

             7    that is in the Governor's budget request.  And the 

             8    second is an $8 million annual addition of 

             9    maintenance or repair money to our base.

            10                  I think we feel pretty confident 

            11    that if we can do that, if we can get that 

            12    additional 15 million and continue the critical 

            13    repairs and put the 8 -- an additional $8 million 

            14    a year into our ongoing repair budget, then we're 

            15    not going to have -- you know, we're done with the 

            16    large, overwhelming backlog business. 

            17                  MR. BORUFF:  I certainly agree.  I 

            18    think it's an -- I think the original guesstimate 

            19    was pretty good, Mr.Bass.  The reality is we're 

            20    four or five years down the road now.  So the 

            21    reality also is that that's been a changing number 

            22    over time. 

            23                  New projects have come on line.  

            24    We've had other systems that experience trouble.  

            25    Because of other issues, we may have taken some of 


             1    the projects off the list that were originally 

             2    identified.  So it certainly is a kind of hard to 

             3    grab number. 

             4                  But the reality is I think we've 

             5    pretty clearly identified our current needs, and I 

             6    think Andy has expressed exactly the reality that 

             7    if we can get the money we hope to get this 

             8    session and can get some ongoing funding to 

             9    prevent us from having this backlog build up in 

            10    the future, I think we're in pretty good shape, 

            11    then.

            12                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Another way to 

            13    ask that question is, how many items were on the 

            14    original list for $175 million went -- I know they 

            15    are the whole -- but how many are at the top for 

            16    repair? 

            17                  MR. BORUFF:  442 (sic).

            18                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And an 

            19    additional 15 continue against that list? 

            20                  MR. BORUFF:  Yes.

            21                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Against the 

            22    700?  Or the 700 has changed? 

            23                  MR. BORUFF:  It's changed.  That's 

            24    why it's hard to describe it.

            25                  MR. SANSOM:  The other thing you 


             1    have to factor in is at Bob's direction and 

             2    leadership, we also initiated at the same time 

             3    about $3 million in ongoing small repairs which 

             4    are done, basically, in the field.  So it's been a 

             5    pretty massive effort. 

             6                  I think the thing that everyone has 

             7    recognized that I'm immensely proud of the staff 

             8    for, first Dan and now Scott, and all the people 

             9    that work in infrastructure is this is probably 

            10    the best project management in system in state 

            11    government. 

            12                  I think what we've got out of this 

            13    is not only an extraordinary record of repair, but 

            14    we also have a system in place now which is second 

            15    to none.

            16                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And I would 

            17    say -- this is just from previous statements.  And 

            18    it might be interesting for you and I to look at 

            19    this.  But the group that did the repair isn't the 

            20    group that did the budget of -- or the estimating 

            21    of 75 million.  And I think that was very flawed.  

            22    So you've brought it a long way in what we've done 

            23    for the dollar because of Scott.

            24                  MR. SANSOM:  Inmates.

            25                  MR. BORUFF:  The reality is, if you 


             1    go back and look early in this process, which I 

             2    have done retrospectively, we weren't very good 

             3    early on at identifying a budget that was 

             4    realistic, but each year, as we've gone on, and 

             5    this year and last year in particular, the 

             6    original scoping has been much more accurate and 

             7    has allowed us to manage the budget much more 

             8    effectively given our plans.

             9                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  And the 

            10    infrastructure has worked as a construction 

            11    manager and as a contractor.  There's no work as 

            12    an entrepreneurial entity, so that's another 

            13    thing? 

            14                  MR. BORUFF:  Right.  Any other 

            15    questions? 

            16                  COMMISSIONER AVILA:  Any other 

            17    questions?  Thank you, Scott. 

            18                  CHAIRMAN BASS:  Thank you.  At this 

            19    time, in accordance with our earlier plan, we will 

            20    take a recess and go hear our Governor's state of 

            21    the State address. 

            22                  And when we come back here, I'll 

            23    announce that pursuant to the requirements of 

            24    Chapter 55.51 of the Open Meetings Law the 

            25    executive session will be held for the purpose of 


             1    considering land transactions.  After that we will 

             2    rejoin in public session this afternoon.  We stand 

             3    in recess.   

             4                         *-*-*-*-*

             5                   (MEETING ADJOURNED.)

             6                         *-*-*-*-*





















             1                 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

             2    STATE OF TEXAS   )

             3    COUNTY OF TRAVIS )

             4             I, MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, a Certified 

             5    Court Reporter in and for the State of Texas, do 

             6    hereby certify that the above and foregoing 12 

             7    pages constitute a full, true and correct 

             8    transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks & 

             9    Wildlife Commission on JANUARY 24, 2001, in the 

            10    commission hearing room of the Texas Parks & 

            11    Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Travis 

            12    County, Texas.

            13             I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic 

            14    record was made by me at the time of the public 

            15    meeting and said stenographic notes were 

            16    thereafter reduced to computerized transcription 

            17    under my supervision and control.

            18             WITNESS MY HAND this the 24th day of 

            19    February, 2001. 

                           MELODY RENEE DeYOUNG, RPR, CSR NO. 3226
            22             Expiration Date:  12-31-02
                           3101 Bee Caves Road
            23             Centre II, Suite 220
                           Austin, Texas  78746
            24             (512) 328-5557
            25    EBS NO.