Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission
Conservation Committee
April 3, 2002
Commission Hearing RoomTexas Parks & Wildlife Department Headquarters Complex
4200 Smith School Road
Austin, TX 78744
1 5 BE IT REMEMBERED, that heretofore on the 3rd day 6 of April, 2002, there came to be heard matters under the 7 regulatory authority of the Parks and Wildlife Commission of 8 Texas, in the Commission Hearing Room of the Texas Parks and 9 Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, Texas, beginning at 10 3:00 p.m., to wit: 11 12 APPEARANCES: 13 THE PARKS AND WILDLIFE COMMISSION: 14 15 CONSERVATION COMMITTEE: 16 CHAIR: Katharine Armstrong Idsal, San Antonio, Texas Donato D. Ramos, Laredo, Texas 17 Philip Montgomery, III, Dallas, Texas Ernest Angelo, Jr., Midland, Texas 18 John Avila, Jr., Fort Worth, Texas Alvin L. Henry, Houston, Texas (Absent) 19 Mark E. Watson, Jr., San Antonio, Texas Joseph Fitzsimons, San Antonio, Texas 20 Kelly W. Rising, M.D., Beaumont, Texas 21 22 23 THE TEXAS PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT: Robert L. Cook, Executive Director, and other personnel of 24 the Parks and Wildlife Department 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 2 1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: That brings us to the 2 Conservation Committee. The first order of business is the 3 approval of the committee minutes from the previous meeting. 4 Is there a motion for approval? 5 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: So moved. 6 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: A second? 7 COMMISSIONER RISING: Second. 8 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: All in favor say aye. 9 ("Aye.") 10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Any opposed? Hearing none, 11 motion carries. Next order of business is the Chairman's 12 Charges. Mr. Cook, will you please make your presentation. 13 MR. COOK: Yes, ma'am, I have a couple or three 14 of the charges I would like to cover at this time. One, to 15 develop a statewide Land and Water Resources Conservation and 16 Recreation Plan. Staff began work on this project immediately 17 after the Legislative session ended last spring. Jeff 18 Francell, Emily Armintano and Jack Bauer have been doing a 19 great job of coordinating this effort. The Chairman appointed 20 an ad hoc committee to oversee the development of the plan. 21 To date the committee has met three times and a draft report 22 is due May 1. Two constituent feedback meetings are scheduled 23 for April 10th at McKinney Roughs and April 17th in the State 24 Capitol auditorium and I would like for you to know that you 25 are invited to attend either or both of those sessions and ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 3 1 hear what our constituents have to think about our process and 2 where we are in the plan. Another charge was to participate 3 in the Texas Water Advisory Council. That came out of Senate 4 Bill 2. 5 Chairman Idsal has appointed Commissioner 6 Joseph Fitzsimons as the TPWD representative on the Texas Water 7 Advisory Council. The initial organizing meeting was held 8 January 23, 2002, and the second meeting is tentatively 9 scheduled in May. Established by Senate Bill 2, the duties of 10 the council are to provide a forum on significant water policy 11 issues, and in an advisory role, strive to provide focus and 12 recommendations on state water policy initiatives. The 13 council will also review river authority's performance 14 according to standards established by the Legislature and 15 report to state leadership by December 2002. 16 Third, to negotiate with the Texas Department 17 of Transportation for the use of obsolete bridges, tunnels, 18 and causeways for the artificial reef program. A meeting with 19 TxDOT was held in February during which TxDOT provided staff 20 with a partial list of bridges and overpasses scheduled for 21 demolition. Also discussed were issues regarding the 22 stability of materials for artificial reefs which were 23 contaminated with oil, availability of funds to transport 24 materials offshore and costs associated with the transport of 25 those materials and what it would take to reef the existing ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 4 1 Galveston causeway. Personnel from both agencies are working 2 together to find a way to enhance the artificial reefs off the 3 Texas coast. Thank you. 4 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Thank you, Mr. Cook. 5 Next order of business is Item No. 2, 6 Nomination of Oil and Gas - Tyler State Park. Mr. Ray, will 7 you make your presentation, please. 8 MR. RAY: Thank you. Madam Chairman and 9 Commissioners, I'm Ronnie Ray with the Land Conservation and 10 Acquisition Group. This item is to consider the nomination of 11 an oil and gas lease at the Tyler State Park in Smith County. 12 This nomination has been requested by a producer. Tyler State 13 Park is comprised of 985 acres. The proposed nominated tracts 14 are on the eastern side of the park depicted in this map in 15 the blue outline. They total approximately 51 mineral acres. 16 The restriction on this lease will be no entry on TPWD lands. 17 The terms of the lease are standard terms of minimum bonus bid 18 of $150 an acre, 25 percent royalty and 10 percent -- $10 per 19 acre delayed rental. This concludes my presentation. Any 20 questions? 21 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Is this in a pooled 22 unit, you're saying they're not coming on the property? 23 MR. RAY: Right. Yes, sir, it will be 24 restricted to off-site drilling. It will be pooled. 25 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: When you say no entry, are ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 5 1 you saying that they cannot have a drilling site on this 2 particular tract? 3 MR. RAY: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: In other words, we would 5 have -- it would have to be an off-site drilling underneath 6 our property? 7 MR. RAY: Right. They'll be on our neighboring 8 property. 9 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: As I understand it, 10 the 51 acres is included in an existing unit and we're pooled 11 in that unit. 12 MR. RAY: Yes, sir, it will be. 13 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: For whatever well 14 they permitted, I guess. Do you know how big? 15 MR. RAY: No, sir. I'm pretty sure it hasn't 16 been done yet. 17 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Okay. 18 MR. RAY: It's just at the lease stage. 19 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Have you discussed out of 20 the unit how many acres will be comprised out of our acres, in 21 other words, if you created a unit that at least half of the 22 unit would be our acreage or any limitation of that type? 23 MR. RAY: To my knowledge it hasn't been 24 discussed. 25 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Or the minimum royalty per ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 6 1 acre like the delayed $10 or $20. 2 MR. RAY: It will be 25 percent. 3 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: No, that the minimum 4 royalty -- in other words that in no event would be paid any 5 less than so much per acre. 6 MR. RAY: It's $150 on the lease and then a $10 7 delayed rental. And then whatever amount they pool. 8 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: It's in bail bonds 9 terms. Those numbers aren't bad you know. 10 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Are you still at a 11 negotiating point where you can negotiate how many acres would 12 be comprised -- in the unit would comprise our acreage to 13 where we could maximize our participation in that unit? 14 MR. RAY: Yes, sir, I believe we could. 15 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Does the lease form not 16 have that kind of language in it? It probably does. I would 17 be surprised if it doesn't have some -- 18 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: No, the producer's 19 lease form -- (inaudible). 20 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: Well, I don't know what 21 we're using. 22 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: It wouldn't be in our 23 favor, I guarantee you that. 24 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: No -- do we have our own 25 lease form? Did the state provide a lease form? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 7 1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Mr. Bauer? 2 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: They don't come with 3 their own lease form? 4 MR. RAY: General Land Office form. 5 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: It is the GLO form you 6 use? 7 MR. RAY: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER ANGELO: It's got every 9 restriction you can think of from the landowner standpoint. 10 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Did I recognize Jack Bauer? 11 MR. BAUER: Thank you. I'm Jack Bauer with the 12 Land Conservation Program. What the purpose of the Commission 13 would have in this is, the lease arrangements are done through 14 the Board for Lease for Parks and Wildlife Lands and -- at the 15 General Land Office. They will prepare the lease. They honor 16 our -- the Commission's recommendations for the terms of 17 those -- of those leases. So if you have desires, make them 18 known and we will carry them forward to the Board for Lease. 19 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: My only suggestion would 20 be that, to the extent that there is pooling, that we maximize 21 our acreage position in the pool. 22 MR. RAY: I understand. That's what I meant 23 when I said I believe it's still open for negotiations 24 whatever you-all send to them, I believe we can discuss. 25 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Madame Chair. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 8 1 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Commissioner Fitzsimons. 2 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: May I make a 3 recommendation -- if we could -- you have a small ad hoc 4 unofficial committee of the two oil and gas lawyers to look at 5 our riders that we do -- traditionally have riders where it 6 involves our surface in surface-use provisions, in this case 7 it doesn't -- there won't be access to the surface, but in 8 cases where is it does, do we have our own special rider for 9 parkland or is it just straight GLO? 10 MR. BAUER: It's straight GLO, yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: If maybe we could 12 look at that issue because if the GLO form is a good form -- 13 I've been on both sides of it, but it does not necessarily -- 14 it's not necessarily designed certainly for our surface 15 issues. 16 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: That's right -- plus from 17 the pooling perspective also. 18 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Yeah. 19 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: I think I see where you-all 20 are going with this and what I recommend if it's okay with 21 you-all, if the two of you-all could get-together and with 22 Jack and figure out something that might make some sense here 23 and then report back to us at the next Commission meeting. 24 MR. BAUER: That's great. I really appreciate 25 the involvement that you're taking in this. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 9 1 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Unless you have some 2 urgency because there's a deadline or something. 3 MR. BAUER: No, sir. This is for a July sale. 4 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: For a July sale. 5 Yeah. 6 MR. COOK: I would -- Jack, you and Ronnie what 7 do you think about moving forward with this with the direction 8 given here to do that or do we -- do -- would you recommend we 9 hold up on this one? 10 MR. BAUER: If you had some specific language 11 that you are used to in the oil and gas industry that we could 12 forward as part of the recommendation, I think that would be 13 the best way to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: I think we could meet with 15 him afterwards and just share a few thoughts with him. 16 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Okay. Are there any further 17 questions on this item? If not, I propose that we move this 18 to the Thursday Commission meeting for public comment and 19 action; is that correct? Thank you. Thank you, Jack. 20 MR. BAUER: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Item No. 3, Petroleum Pipeline 22 Easement, Cameron County. Mr. Gissell, will you please make 23 your presentation. 24 MR. GISSELL: Madame Chairman and members of 25 Commission, my name is Dennis Gissell. I'm with the Wildlife ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 10 1 Division and today I'm here to request your approval to 2 proceed forward with the development of an easement for two 3 petroleum pipelines that were installed on Resaca de la Palma 4 State Park, which is a portion of the World Birding Center. 5 Resaca de la Palma State Park is about three miles west of 6 Brownsville in Cameron County. In late 1999 two petroleum 7 pipelines were installed by a contractor of Penn Octane 8 Corporation on Resaca de la Palma without Park and Wildlife 9 permission and the pipelines were constructed under a 10 presidential permit to provide liquid petroleum gas, gasoline 11 and diesel to Mexico. This slide shows the boundary of the 12 1,200-acre Resaca de la Palma and the inset shows the relative 13 location of the pipelines. This is an expansion of that 14 inset, it shows where the two pipelines were installed just 15 inside the boundary of the park on the southeast corner. This 16 is a slide that shows the right-of-way where the two pipelines 17 were installed alongside a power line easement, approximately 18 1,493 feet long and the easement would be about 30 feet wide. 19 It covers just over an acre of land. 20 Once the pipelines were discovered, staff 21 negotiated with Penn Octane to survey a boundary of the 22 property as well as the pipeline locations, to have an 23 archaeological survey done, and to assess damage fees and 24 easement fees. As I mentioned, one pipeline is currently 25 transporting liquid petroleum gas and the other one is sitting ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 11 1 idle but could be used for either gasoline or diesel in the 2 near future. Applicant and staff request permission to 3 proceed with an easement to the Board for Lease for action for 4 a ten-year easement, a total of $118,096 in damages and fees 5 which includes $100,000 in damages and $18,096 in easement 6 fees. That concludes my presentation and I would be pleased 7 to answer your questions. 8 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Is the easement fees 9 continuing or is that a onetime fee? 10 MR. GISSELL: That is a onetime ten-year 11 easement fee. And we would renegotiate at the end of that 12 ten-year term. 13 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Does the easement that you 14 contemplate be restrictive to the existing pipelines and 15 nothing more? 16 MR. GISSELL: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Or do they have the right 18 to lay additional lines? 19 MR. GISSELL: It would be restricted to those 20 two pipelines. 21 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Upon the termination 22 of it, it requires them to remove it and remediate. 23 MR. GISSELL: We certainly could do that. 24 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Along the lines of 25 our earlier discussions, there are things to put in there. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 12 1 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: In with the legal document 2 supporting that -- is that something that's generated by the 3 General Land Office or we will do that? 4 MR. GISSELL: The General Land Office generates 5 that, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: The width of the easement 7 is 30 feet? 8 MR. GISSELL: Thirty feet. 9 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: To the center line? 10 MR. GISSELL: Fifteen feet from each side of 11 the center line. 12 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: But the lines have been in 13 place already and they've been using it? 14 MR. GISSELL: That's correct. 15 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Is there any further 16 discussion? The Committee Chair will place the item on the 17 Thursday Commission meeting agenda for public comment and 18 action. 19 Next committee item is No. 4, Easement 20 Assignments in Travis County. Jack Bauer will you make the 21 presentation, please. 22 MR. BAUER: My name is Jack Bauer. I'm Land 23 Conservation Program Director. This is a land cleanup item 24 relating to conversion of constructed -- construction permits 25 that came up for fiber optics on Smith School Road and we ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 13 1 would like to convert them to easements. This view is from 2 overhead looking south toward the headquarters from Burleson 3 Road and through -- from '99 to last year with all the -- all 4 the fiber optic construction that was going on in the county 5 and the city, we had -- we had several requests to lay a 6 conduit up Smith School Road. There is a fiber optics 7 provider at the end of Smith School Road. It's that building 8 there identified as Level 3. And several providers wanted to 9 hook up to the infrastructure circuit that was going in around 10 Austin to these service providers at Level 3 Communications. 11 Texas Parks and Wildlife owns Smith School Road and we felt it 12 appropriate to benefit from rents that we could receive from 13 that. We did due diligence for archaeology and also from an 14 operational standpoint of running our headquarters here and it 15 was not any significant impacts. But we did provide an 16 easement to Level 3 in '99 and what we have now is -- we then 17 had, under really from that industry what would be considered 18 as urgent requests, to get two more sets of conduit in along 19 Smith School Road. One was from MCI WorldCom. We provided a 20 construction permit for them to construct within the same 21 easement area as the Level 3 right-of-way. I'll go back and 22 that would be on the east side of Smith School. And then 23 following that we had a request to put in, and we provided 24 through a permit -- construction permit and occupancy permit 25 to lay conduit on the west side of Smith School. And staff ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 14 1 and the applicants would like to now convert these to 2 easements. 3 So the actions that we would ask you to 4 consider would be -- there would be two of them. First would 5 be to assign the existing miscellaneous easement from the 6 Board for Lease and the number is identified there, to be 7 assigned to MCI WorldCom. We have collected a fee for -- to 8 construct -- to lay the conduit of $25,000 and we would 9 suggest that the terms and conditions that came with the 10 permit to construct be converted to that easement. Actually 11 on that one, the terms and conditions that exist with Level 3 12 would be converted and the same terms and conditions would 13 apply to MCI WorldCom. 14 For -- the other fiber optics provider which is 15 XO Texas that's on the west side of Smith School Road we 16 would -- we have collected $75,000 in fees to construct 17 that -- to lay that conduit. And we would propose, using the 18 terms and conditions that are -- that exist in that permit and 19 convert them to an easement for a ten-year term at -- with the 20 revenue that's been collected of $75,000. Are there 21 questions? 22 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Commissioner Avila. 23 COMMISSIONER AVILA: WorldCom is putting in two 24 additional -- they have three now; is that correct, or 25 something like that? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 15 1 MR. BAUER: MCI WorldCom has one bundle of 2 conduit that is in an easement that has been provided by the 3 Board for Lease to Level 3 communications. 4 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Did we charge them for 5 that? 6 MR. BAUER: Yes, we did. 7 COMMISSIONER AVILA: So, is it not 75 -- 75 8 more or less? 9 MR. BAUER: The one to Level 3 was for $25,000. 10 We provided a permit to construct in that same easement to MCI 11 WorldCom at a rate of $25,000. We provided a permit to 12 construct on the third one, the one on the west side of the 13 road at $75,000. There was some logic to that in the sense 14 that they were actually providing capacity for three other 15 customers, therefore three times $25,000. 16 COMMISSIONER AVILA: Okay. Okay. 17 MR. BAUER: As a side, we have had extensive 18 discussions with the Land Office about appropriate rates for 19 fiber optic easements and it's clear that the structure used 20 in the oil and gas industry which for us is atypical and for 21 the GLO is $10 a rod, does not fit the revenue-generating 22 capability of fiber optics and these fiber optics bundles are 23 laid with huge potential capacity. So -- and when capacity is 24 added you are not aware of it and you don't have the 25 opportunity to take advantage of them using your land, so ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 16 1 those were the basis of the fees. 2 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: And the fees that they're 3 paying, is that for a specific fiber optic cable that's been 4 laid or will be laid or is it broad enough where they could 5 lay more than one in the future? 6 MR. BAUER: The permit, the construction permit 7 identifies the laying of a group of conduit -- of conduit, of 8 pipe. And the permit is for the laying of that pipe with the 9 acknowledgment that they will be blown full or with fiber 10 optic cable at some point in time. There is more conduit 11 there than there is fiber cable in them right now. They are 12 not filled. 13 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: So then, the actual 14 easement is as to a particular conduit that they in the future 15 can stuff, as you might say, with fiber optic cable? 16 MR. BAUER: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: But there's a limitation 18 as to the size of that conduit? 19 MR. BAUER: There is a capacity limitation 20 because there is only so much fiber cable that you can cram 21 through the conduit, but there is extensive capacity there. 22 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Do we also reserve the 23 right in the future to grant future easements for other 24 conduits for other people that may be interested, which is not 25 exclusive as to them as to a particular area, but if we wanted ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 17 1 to go, let's say, a foot higher or two feet higher and grant 2 another easement in the future? 3 MR. BAUER: We can. 4 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: We reserve that right. 5 MR. BAUER: That's correct. And in fact that 6 was the situation between Level 3, which is the folks that 7 constructed first and they do have an easement from the Board 8 for Lease. When MCI WorldCom came in, they are using the same 9 space but raised up. They're 5-foot wide easements and we 10 collected the same fee for that new customer. 11 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: Okay. 12 MR. COOK: Jack Bauer is much too modest. He 13 gets all he can get from them and asks for more. 14 MR. BAUER: I -- 15 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: How do you know all this? 16 MR. BAUER: I think that was Mr. Cook's number. 17 COMMISSIONER MONTGOMERY: "More" is his number. 18 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Commissioner Fitzsimons. 19 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: Just as an aside, 20 you're absolutely right, $10 a rod is no longer anywhere close 21 to the market and even in the oil and gas industry. That's 22 more like 50,000 and I'm sure Donato gets more. 23 COMMISSIONER RAMOS: A little bit. 24 COMMISSIONER FITZSIMONS: A little bit. And 25 upwards to 350 a rod, $350 a rod in some cases. So that has ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 18 1 become a very fluid area, in other words, whoever really has 2 what the party requesting the easement needs, can really 3 negotiate a price. The standards are out the window. So just 4 for future reference. 5 MR. BAUER: I think we're quite fortunate to 6 have you folks willing to help us with these and we will take 7 all your -- you're in the industry, you work in it every day 8 and that's a real benefit for us. 9 I would offer too that I think if these people 10 came to us today we probably wouldn't be getting $25,000. 11 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Is there any other discussion 12 from the Commission? The committee chair will place the item 13 on the Thursday Commission meeting agenda for public comment 14 and action. 15 Next committee Item No. 5 has been pulled from 16 the agenda. Committee Items 6 through 11 are real estate 17 items that were discussed in Executive Session. Is there any 18 other business to be brought before this committee, Mr. Cook? 19 MR. COOK: No, ma'am. 20 CHAIRMAN IDSAL: Hearing none, this committee 21 has completed its business and we will move on to the next 22 committee. 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 19 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS ) 2 COUNTY OF TRAVIS ) 3 I, KIM SEIBERT, a Certified Court Reporter in and for 4 the State of Texas, do hereby certify that the above and 5 foregoing pages constitute a full, true, and correct 6 transcript of the minutes of the Texas Parks and Wildlife 7 Commission on April 3, 2002, in the Commission hearing room 8 of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Headquarters Complex, Austin, 9 Travis County, Texas. 10 I FURTHER CERTIFY that a stenographic record was made by 11 me at the time of the public meeting and said stenographic 12 notes were thereafter reduced to computerized transcription 13 under my supervision and control. 14 WITNESS MY HAND this ____ day of ____________________, 15 2002. 16 17 18 ___________________________ KIM SEIBERT, Texas CSR 4589 19 Expiration Date: 12/2002 3101 Bee Caves Road 20 Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78701 21 (512) 328-5557 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139 . 20 1 2 3 4 ___________________________ KATHARINE ARMSTRONG IDSAL, CHAIRMAN 5 6 ___________________________ PHILIP MONTGOMERY, III 7 8 ___________________________ JOSEPH FITZSIMONS 9 10 ___________________________ KELLY W. RISING, M.D. 11 12 ___________________________ ERNEST ANGELO, JR. 13 14 ___________________________ JOHN AVILA, JR. 15 16 ___________________________ ALVIN L. HENRY 17 18 ___________________________ DONATO D. RAMOS 19 20 ___________________________ MARK E. WATSON, JR. 21 22 23 24 25 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 3101 Bee Caves Road, Suite 220, Centre II Austin, Texas 78746 (512) 328-5557 FAX: (512) 328-8139
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